Union Protests are "Uprisings" Now.

[Juana]

I hope it bites him in the ass.

[Requia ☣]

It will.  Of course, it'll bite the rest of us in the ass too.

[Cain]

Incidentally, while everyone was lulzing it up about the Fake Koch Phonecall, I think they missed a very important and rather scary part of the conversation.  When the ersatz Koch suggested using agent provocateurs in the crowd to create a false impression that State Troopers were needed to storm the capitol, Scott Walker replied:

"You know, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. . . . My only fear would be if there's a ruckus caused is that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has to settle to avoid all these problems."

Which is pretty much only a step up from actually being willing to go ahead with such a plan.  I'll put this as plainly as I can:  Scott Walker is only not willing to kill peaceful protestors because it may prevent his policies being passed.  Scott Walker is, hypothetically, perfectly happy to deploy potentially lethal state power against people who are in political disagreement with him.

Incidentally, I can think of another democratically elected leader who used the police to round up opposition politicians in order to influence a sham voting procedure.

[Cain]

I think the point that regardless of what the Wisconsin Governor does to the unions, he wont be able to fix the deficit, should probably be the central one.

Also, I followed with some amusement on a blog an argument between Standard Libertarians (ie not Kevin Carson) and Marxists, with the latter baiting the former for not supporting the right to free assembly and bargaining etc.  The Libertarians responded that individual bargaining was cool, it was collective bargaining which is the problem.

OK.  So, if we accept that is the case, isn't a company in negotiations with its workers collectively bargaining on behalf of the management and owners/shareholders?  Its not like John Galt is out there on his own against the teeming masses of trade union bargaining officials.  Anyway, just thought I'd share that, as it seemed one of the strangest arguments against unions I've seen in, well, the past several years on the internet, and that includes the theories involving David Icke.

I've been arguing that point for years, Cain.  I'm either told the arrangement is "different" or they just go away.

There's been a few exceptions, though.

I've found two exceptions so far, E.D. Kain and Kevin Carson, both who are more thoughtful than the average internet libertarian and tend towards the left end of the libertarian spectrum.  There are probably some more agreements at the C4SS.org site too, but by and large, they are the exceptions that prove the rule.  Reason magazine, for example, have gone so far to attack Reddit as some kind of pro-union Socialist Commie Liberal website, which is like attacking Youtube for "promoting" 9/11 truthers.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Incidentally, while everyone was lulzing it up about the Fake Koch Phonecall, I think they missed a very important and rather scary part of the conversation.  When the ersatz Koch suggested using agent provocateurs in the crowd to create a false impression that State Troopers were needed to storm the capitol, Scott Walker replied:

"You know, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. . . . My only fear would be if there's a ruckus caused is that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has to settle to avoid all these problems."

Which is pretty much only a step up from actually being willing to go ahead with such a plan.  I'll put this as plainly as I can:  Scott Walker is only not willing to kill peaceful protestors because it may prevent his policies being passed.  Scott Walker is, hypothetically, perfectly happy to deploy potentially lethal state power against people who are in political disagreement with him.

Incidentally, I can think of another democratically elected leader who used the police to round up opposition politicians in order to influence a sham voting procedure.

I already pointed out something similar.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/walker_office_confirms_governor_fell_for_koch_pran.php

A man pretending to be one of the Koch brothers prank calls the Governor.

When fake Koch suggests "planting some trouble-makers" in the protests Walker responds:

Well, the only problem, because we thought about that, my only gut reaction to that would be, right now, the lawmakers I've talked to have just completely had it with them. The public is not really fond of this. The teachers union did some polling and focus groups, I think, and found out that the public turned on them the minute they closed school down for a couple days. The guys we have left are largely from out of state, and I keep dismissing it in my press comment saying, 'eh, they're mostly from out of state.'"
[...]
I'm saying hey, 'we can handle this, people can protest, this is Madison, you know, full of the 60s liberals.' Let them protest. It's not going to affect us. And as long as we go back to our homes, and the majority of people are telling us we're doing the right thing, let them protest all they want.

[Juana]

This is almost historical de ja vu. Almost, because the cops seem to give a shit.

[LMNO]

Cain, that's a great point.  When I heard the clip on the radio, I was wondering why none of the pundits (the liberal ones) weren't jumping all over that part.  "Yeah we considered it..."

Fuck. 

[Telarus]

Johnnybrainwash has some good thoughts as to why that isn't the most troubling part of the phonecall:

http://www.dysnomia.us/2011/02/scott-walker-and-the-fake-david-koch/
I assume you've heard plenty about this story by now, but have you listened to the whole tape or read the transcript for yourself? You should check it out if you haven't.

There's lots of juicy stuff in here, but forget all the talk about baseball bats and provocateurs. The caller tries to bait Walker with these suggestions, but he doesn't bite. He's sucking up to the boss, so he doesn't contradict him, but he does  deflect the baseball bat line, and he explains his reasoning for not wanting to provoke the protesters:

My only fear would be if there's a ruckus caused is that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has to settle to avoid all these problems. You know, whereas I've said, hey, we can handle this, people can protest, this is Madison, you know, full of the '60s liberals. Let 'em protest. It's not going to affect us. And as long as we go back to our homes and the majority of people are telling us we're doing the right thing, let 'em protest all they want. So that's my gut reaction. I think it's actually good if they're constant, they're noisy, but they're quiet, nothing happens. Sooner or later the media stops finding them interesting.

It's not a ringing defense of the right to assemble, but it's a plain statement that he doesn't agree with sending in the troublemakers. Good for the Madison police chief who's speaking up about this, but it's not the main story- it's a distraction.

One more distraction is at the very end of the call, where the fake Koch invites Walker to California to show him a good time, and lets it be known that he has vested interests in the outcome. It would be an ethics violation if Walker took him up on the trip, but it's purely hypothetical. People are quoting Walker's first few words after the "vested interests" comment, but in the context of his full response, they're pretty much filler:

Murphy: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: Once you crush these bastards I'll fly you out to Cali (California) and really show you a good time.

    Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support in helping us move the cause forward, and we appreciate it, and we're doing it the just and right thing for the right reasons and it's all about getting our freedoms back.

    Murphy: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]

    Walker: Well that's just it, the bottom line is we're gonna get the world moving here 'cause it's the right thing to do.

Twice the fake Koch tries to bring it around to money or rewards, and twice Walker comes back by talking about doing it because it's the right thing to do. Anyone who's quoting the "Well, that's just it" part out of context is lying to you.

So what's worth paying attention to?

The good stuff is how he lays out the pressure tactics and trickery he's got lined up. The discussion of national strategy will make a good opposition ad when he claims to have the state's interests in mind.

Walker does solicit "Koch" to get "a message put out" for his supporters in swing areas, presumably in an election. Koch controls political funds that can't legally be spent in coordination with candidates or parties. There could be a campaign finance violation here, but the language is probably too imprecise.

My favorite, however, is that Walker thinks the definitive moment of Reagan's presidency was when he fired the air traffic controllers. This was apparently the first crack in the Berlin Wall. I kind of follow his logic, but no.

(Aside: Reagan didn't defeat the Soviet Union. George Kennan did it in the embassy with a telegram.)

The whole thing is very interesting and very worth reading, both for the inside view of Walker's strategy and for a demonstration of the poor quality of candidate the teabaggers can drum up. My sense is that Walker knows how to fight, but governing is completely beyond him. His administration will largely be a failure, but he could inflict a lot of damage on the way down if he's not stopped.

[link are in the article on Johnny's blogs]

[Cain]

The bit about Reagan was rather lulzy, especially since Reagan was the only President to have ever been a Union chief, and also supported unions in the Warsaw Pact states (Solidarity, anyone?).  Of course, that hardly makes him a socialist radical, but there is the constant amusement in that modern conservatives do things Reagan historically advised against (torturing terrorists, trying to start nuclear arms races etc) and then claim he was their inspiration.

[Phox]

The bit about Reagan was rather lulzy, especially since Reagan was the only President to have ever been a Union chief, and also supported unions in the Warsaw Pact states (Solidarity, anyone?).  Of course, that hardly makes him a socialist radical, but there is the constant amusement in that modern conservatives do things Reagan historically advised against (torturing terrorists, trying to start nuclear arms races etc) and then claim he was their inspiration.

America's understanding of political history only goes back 6 months.

[Luna]

Hypocrisy in action.

Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly, all of whom have been popping off about how awful unions are... are union members.

http://www.alternet.org/media/150054/confirmed%3A_union-bashing_right-wing_media_stars_hannity,_limbaugh_and_o%27reilly_are_afl-cio_union-affiliated_members

[Phox]

Hypocrisy in action.

Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly, all of whom have been popping off about how awful unions are... are union members.

http://www.alternet.org/media/150054/confirmed%3A_union-bashing_right-wing_media_stars_hannity,_limbaugh_and_o%27reilly_are_afl-cio_union-affiliated_members

*GASP* Shock and awe.

[LMNO]

Anonymous is back, and just targeted the Koch brothers.

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2286701/entry/9/

The online hacktivist group "Anonymous" has targeted Koch-backed conservative group Americans for Prosperity, rendering the site "intermittently unavailable" on Sunday evening, reports Politico. After unleashing a spate of denial-of-service attacks, "Anonymous" distributed a triumphalist press release addressed to the "Citizens of the United States of America": "It has come to our attention that the brothers, David and Charles Koch—the billionaire owners of Koch Industries—have long attempted to usurp American Democracy," it says, adding: "Anonymous cannot ignore the plight of the citizen-workers of Wisconsin, or the opportunity to fight for the people in America's broken political system." While this infusion of quasi-Marxist rhetoric may or may not help the cause in Wisconsin, that's not the only benefit. Politico says the DNS attack "will likely also help establish AfP among conservatives as the key group at [Wisconsin] Governor Scott Walker's side."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Cain, that's a great point.  When I heard the clip on the radio, I was wondering why none of the pundits (the liberal ones) weren't jumping all over that part.  "Yeah we considered it..."

Fuck. 

Pantywaists.

[Jenne]

Cain, that's a great point.  When I heard the clip on the radio, I was wondering why none of the pundits (the liberal ones) weren't jumping all over that part.  "Yeah we considered it..."

Fuck. 

I think Stephen Colbert nailed that portion last week, actually.