Shyness vs. gynophobia

[Luna]

Me, I can be painfully shy with new people... unless I've already locked on to something we have in common.  Drop me in a party with a bunch of strangers, and I'll be the one sitting in the corner desperately wishing for it to be time to go home...  Though, somewhere I'm comfortable, say, a battlefield at Pennsic, where I may not KNOW everybody, I can strike up a conversation with just about anybody.

[Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ]

I'm shy at first, but i can pretend I'm not if i need to. so its not really noticeable  except in my head.
I don't go up and talk to new people easily but it they come up to me i'm fine

[Wyldkat]

Reading through this thread was very interesting.  It makes me wonder where the line is between shyness and fear of the opposite sex.  A person could be shy, or shy just around the opposite sex or just in certain situations.  I wonder if some people intentionally go after people who aren't in their "league" because they are too afraid to approach someone they would actually have a chance with?  It's possible that that type of trying to get a date is actually a symptom of gynophobia rather than a cause of it.

Some of the posters discussing shyness sound like they are a touch more than simply shy.  I would fall into that category.  I have social anxiety.  Very simply put it is an extreme form of shyness specifically in social situations where you feel that other people are constantly judging you.  Poor self esteem can compound the issue making you certain that everyone is going to think poorly of you no matter what.  Social anxiety can be so bad the people will literally do everything they can to avoid leaving their "safe" areas. 

Shyness is actually very poorly clinically defined, and also very poorly studied. It seems obvious that seeking a mate that is clearly far from a match for oneself in terms of age, appearance, and even interests and culture (I don't mean ethnic culture-of-origin, but chosen culture... for instance, a Republican suburbanite from Beaverton who isn't very intellectual, dislikes liberals, and is uncomfortable with hipsters is an obvious poor cultural match for me, yet they hit on me all the time)  is a symptom of something. I don't think it's a symptom of "shyness", but it may be a symptom of a neurosis that has the same root as shyness.

I think that "shyness" is an umbrella word used to cover a number of neuroses, including social anxiety, various phobias, and intense shame and low self-esteem.

I'd love to see more studies on it personally.  Not just because I have social anxiety either.  My youngest son has social issues, we're getting him diagnosed after a six month wait (argh....) this summer, but one of his main issues is what a lot of people term as shyness, same with a cubscout in my den who has an Asperger's diagnosis.  It's not shyness though, it's a misunderstanding of how to interact with other people and a lack of ability to judge and understand social cues.  But people call it "being shy."  I agree that it is used as an umbrella term and I'm starting to get irked at it being used that way.

I think a lot of the social "issues" tend to be comorbid (based on personal experience and observation and a little research) which would make picking it all apart just that much harder.

For example, someone with a low self-esteem would be afraid of hitting on someone they might actually match with due to the belief that a realistic match would never happen because they are so unworthy.  Therefore, to save themselves from the hurt of the rejection they believe will happen they will hit on people they have no chance with, simply because they have no chance with them so rejection makes sense.  However after being rejected enough by unrealistic matches they might start to connect the rejection with the unattainable women and through that with all women leading to gynophobia.  I'm not saying that this happens consciously, but I could see it happening...  So what's the base problem?  Not the gynophobia, it's simply a symptom of the base problem but ends up comorbid with the low self-esteem that started the whole mess.  AND none of it is due to shyness.

[Placid Dingo]

Firstly, the whole idea of identifying the cognitive whatsits around shyness is completely awesome.

I know I myself used to feel very awkward in social situations. Now im a lot better; as stupid as it would sound to some people the MBTI actually helped by making me realize that falling below my own high expectations does not = falling below other peoples expectations.

I still am shy in some situations, and a lot of this is due to my having a pretty fuzzy concept of appropriateness. It frustrates me that I see men acting in the way Nigel describes, which I find distasteful, but knowing that they so so because that's what men do if they want to have a sex life without being in a relationship. So I have difficulty understanding how to talk to women, wanting to move towards something with a sexual element, without just copying the kind of bogan behavior I see around me. I can talk and chat and be platonic with ease but platonic makes platonic. Anyway the point I'm making is that I think an uncertainty about what 'normal' or 'appropriate' is, especially when wanting to be a decent person where indecency seems rewarded.

There are plenty of guys to whom social rules are extremely confusing. Books like 'The Game' about the pick up artist culture cop a lot of shit (and rightly so) but the fact is that until  i read it in my first year if university there were so so many superbasic social concepts I just didn't understand, from basic positive self talk, to projecting confidence. If you don't have male friends who know how, or can be bothered explaining how the world of women works, theres little other avenue for understanding. The problem there is, while a lot of this advice is good, the surrounding culture buys into the idea of sex as validation/keeping score.

[Suu]

Once upon a time, I had the 3 month rule. No having sex unless you were dating for at least 3 months. That has long since gone out the window, but at that age in my life, it felt morally appropriate. I've found that since I've gotten older, sex has become something more casual, but what I dislike is how disconnected it can be.

As children/young teens, we're taught that it should be special and such, but that so-called "magic" flies right out the window after you're first couple of partners, and you're suddenly on the hunt for immediate satisfaction rather than a true intimate connection.

A guy I know once told me that when he was in high school, he would actually have sex with a girl before dating her. THAT I find repulsive. He's since grown out of the habit, but we've pretty much boiled it down to him being relatively unattractive and unpopular through junior high, and when he finally got out of his 'ugly duckling' stage, he raced to catch up, only very unnecessarily. His behavior didn't change a whole lot through college, and he's lucky he didn't catch something vile.

[Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ]

wait what?
how is having sex with people before dating them repulsive...

[Suu]

The fact that he was 15 and wouldn't even ask a girl out unless he slept with her first? IMO too young to get into those habits.

[Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ]

ah 15. that makes more sense.
i'm not seeing how anything you posted relates to shyness though.

[Suu]

ah 15. that makes more sense.
i'm not seeing how anything you posted relates to shyness though.

He used it as a way to actually get dates because up until that point he had UDS, so that was his tact. Nail 'em first, ask them to dinner later. He didn't develop what we may consider "normal" social skills.

[Eater of Clowns]

This has been an exceedingly interesting topic to read through.   

[Jasper]

I know!  It's one of those ideas that's interested me before I had the words to think about it properly. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel is on to something ITT.  I think you ought to go get a degree in this field, you could do something with it.

I'm seriously thinking about it.

My ex-husband (Polar Bear Pants, if anyone remembers that guy) used to tell me that interest in shyness is "a creepy obsession"

I'll fucking creepy him!

[Eater of Clowns]

Nigel is on to something ITT.  I think you ought to go get a degree in this field, you could do something with it.

I'm seriously thinking about it.

My ex-husband (Polar Bear Pants, if anyone remembers that guy) used to tell me that interest in shyness is "a creepy obsession"

I'll fucking creepy him!

This just really tickled me.   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I completely disagree that after the first couple of partners, sex loses its magic. It's not like tape, that loses its stick after being used a few times. It's magical with the right person, if you are in the right emotional space.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel is on to something ITT.  I think you ought to go get a degree in this field, you could do something with it.

I'm seriously thinking about it.

My ex-husband (Polar Bear Pants, if anyone remembers that guy) used to tell me that interest in shyness is "a creepy obsession"

I'll fucking creepy him!

This just really tickled me.   

I aim to please.