REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[Elder Iptuous]

...
So the family man who IS responsible and doesn't keep loads of the stuff at home now can because it is legal.  That's where many of the 400,000 (or whatever the number would be) would be coming from.  Kids are risk takers and they are curious but at young ages they aren't going to be terribly elaborate in their schemes to explore those risks.  That's why you see inhalant abuse and prescription drug abuse so high in young ages.  Because they are substances that are right there in the home.  Easy to get a hold of. 

and yet, we don't feel the need to ban those substances.
it is the responsibility of the parent to keep the kids from getting into them, no?

Well they aren't banned because they aren't intended to be recreational drugs.  They have utility as something other than a drug.

true point.
hmm.  silly side question, but what category does viagra fall under? 

[Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ]

I believe that we will find out that the benefits to society (and especially to children) of legalizing marijuana will far outweigh the alleged benefits of criminalizing it.

Go, Washington State, go!

Yup. I understand RWHN's position but I just haven't seen any evidence that legalization will lead to a large enough increase in use to outweigh the hundreds of thousands of lives that WONT be ruined and the billions of dollars that WONT be wasted on corrupt and ineffective law enforcement.

Consider this.  The adolescent population in the United States is 40 Million.  Let's say there is just a 1% increase in adolescents who become regular users of marijuana after it is legalized.  That would be 400,000 kids.  You were saying about hundreds of thousands of lives being ruined? 

As opposed to the nearly twice that number of people who are imprisoned on marijuana charges each year?

Hm. Gotta think about that. OH WAIT

THIS, and, regular user of marijuana does not equal life is ruined.  400,000 kids, of which I wouldn't believe 50,000 would have their life ruined.  Especially since it's no longer illegal, and they wont be arrested and go to jail or lose out on Financial Aid.

Yes, because if they legalize marijuana they are going to also make it legal for kids to use just like they did for alcohol and tobacco....oh, wait, no, those were still illegal for minors to use. 

When minors get caught drinking they generally don't go to jail, get stuck with a criminal record, and get barred for life from receiving financial aid.

You keep making these completely useless (and frankly, terrible) analogies. It makes it hard to believe you're really thinking about this from a standpoint of rational open-mindedness.

As someone who has gotten caught underage drinking I will tell you all the police did was go "MEH! LET YOUR SCHOOL DEAL WITH IT!" And i got 4 sessions of alcohol counseling, the end. that is nothing like having a record and financial aid gone forever
Several other people in my highschool got caught. they got sent to the school for counseling instead of arrested. they got "DONT DO IT AGAIN...WE PROMISE WE WILL PUNISH YOU NEXT TIME...AND YOU ARENT ALLOWED AT THE NEXT SCHOOL DANCE YOU BAD BAD CHILD!" also nothing like a criminal record.

so yeah...underage punishments totally preferable over illegal drug charges

[trix]

I'm sorry, whether you agree with the law or not, I think exposing your family to that kind of risk is highly irresponsible.  I just can't fathom how it is THAT important.  I have to assume this guy was fully aware of the law and the potential consequences of his actions if he was caught, yes?  I understand someone disagreeing with the law, I understanding having a certain level of passion for wanting marijuana legalized, but I don't know, personally speaking, my first responsibility before any other responsibility is to my family.  If it was a law that was keeping me from feeding my family or providing the basic necessities of life, I can see it.  But to take that risk for drugs?  I just can't understand how it is THAT important.  

Considering that he was not dealing and had no intention of dealing it's quite likely he had no idea that he'd be hit with distribution charges.

Okay so he's not irresponsible, he's just an idiot.  

Name calling?  I don't think that assuming the laws on distribution make SOME sort of sense makes him an idiot.  He was not distributing.  He was not dealing drugs.  Had I not been told by someone else, I don't think it would have ever occurred to me you could be successfully charged with something you clearly did not do.  But of course, he didn't spend tons of time looking up and deciphering every applicable law on everything he did, and went by the experience and knowledge he and everyone around him had in that area, and that makes him stupid.

Or was that an attempt at trolling?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm sorry, whether you agree with the law or not, I think exposing your family to that kind of risk is highly irresponsible.  I just can't fathom how it is THAT important.  I have to assume this guy was fully aware of the law and the potential consequences of his actions if he was caught, yes?  I understand someone disagreeing with the law, I understanding having a certain level of passion for wanting marijuana legalized, but I don't know, personally speaking, my first responsibility before any other responsibility is to my family.  If it was a law that was keeping me from feeding my family or providing the basic necessities of life, I can see it.  But to take that risk for drugs?  I just can't understand how it is THAT important.  

This guy may or may not have been aware of the law, but again, when you take the "they know it's illegal" standpoint, you are ignoring the fact that anti-drug laws disproportionately effect the impoverished, disenfranchised, abused, and hopeless, and are thereby blaming the victim.

Unjust laws are unjust. And in some cases, outright barbaric.

[Adios]

...
So the family man who IS responsible and doesn't keep loads of the stuff at home now can because it is legal.  That's where many of the 400,000 (or whatever the number would be) would be coming from.  Kids are risk takers and they are curious but at young ages they aren't going to be terribly elaborate in their schemes to explore those risks.  That's why you see inhalant abuse and prescription drug abuse so high in young ages.  Because they are substances that are right there in the home.  Easy to get a hold of. 

and yet, we don't feel the need to ban those substances.
it is the responsibility of the parent to keep the kids from getting into them, no?

Well they aren't banned because they aren't intended to be recreational drugs.  They have utility as something other than a drug.

true point.
hmm.  silly side question, but what category does viagra fall under? 

Somebody brought it up! A major amount of drug abuse by kids is stealing their parents perfectly legal prescription drugs. Should those be banned as well?

[AFK]

I'm sorry, whether you agree with the law or not, I think exposing your family to that kind of risk is highly irresponsible.  I just can't fathom how it is THAT important.  I have to assume this guy was fully aware of the law and the potential consequences of his actions if he was caught, yes?  I understand someone disagreeing with the law, I understanding having a certain level of passion for wanting marijuana legalized, but I don't know, personally speaking, my first responsibility before any other responsibility is to my family.  If it was a law that was keeping me from feeding my family or providing the basic necessities of life, I can see it.  But to take that risk for drugs?  I just can't understand how it is THAT important.  

Considering that he was not dealing and had no intention of dealing it's quite likely he had no idea that he'd be hit with distribution charges.

Okay so he's not irresponsible, he's just an idiot.  

Name calling?  I don't think that assuming the laws on distribution make SOME sort of sense makes him an idiot.  He was not distributing.  He was not dealing drugs.  Had I not been told by someone else, I don't think it would have ever occurred to me you could be successfully charged with something you clearly did not do.  But of course, he didn't spend tons of time looking up and deciphering every applicable law on everything he did, and went by the experience and knowledge he and everyone around him had in that area, and that makes him stupid.

Or was that an attempt at trolling?

It's not exactly news that marijuana is illegal.  And again, speaking as a father, I think when you are a father you kind of have to think a little more about what you do and how it will impact your child.  As I said, breaking a law to feed or clothe your child is one thing.  Breaking a law to engage in a recreational activity is quite another. 

[Adios]

I'm sorry, whether you agree with the law or not, I think exposing your family to that kind of risk is highly irresponsible.  I just can't fathom how it is THAT important.  I have to assume this guy was fully aware of the law and the potential consequences of his actions if he was caught, yes?  I understand someone disagreeing with the law, I understanding having a certain level of passion for wanting marijuana legalized, but I don't know, personally speaking, my first responsibility before any other responsibility is to my family.  If it was a law that was keeping me from feeding my family or providing the basic necessities of life, I can see it.  But to take that risk for drugs?  I just can't understand how it is THAT important.  

Considering that he was not dealing and had no intention of dealing it's quite likely he had no idea that he'd be hit with distribution charges.

Okay so he's not irresponsible, he's just an idiot.  

Name calling?  I don't think that assuming the laws on distribution make SOME sort of sense makes him an idiot.  He was not distributing.  He was not dealing drugs.  Had I not been told by someone else, I don't think it would have ever occurred to me you could be successfully charged with something you clearly did not do.  But of course, he didn't spend tons of time looking up and deciphering every applicable law on everything he did, and went by the experience and knowledge he and everyone around him had in that area, and that makes him stupid.

Or was that an attempt at trolling?

It's not exactly news that marijuana is illegal.  And again, speaking as a father, I think when you are a father you kind of have to think a little more about what you do and how it will impact your child.  As I said, breaking a law to feed or clothe your child is one thing.  Breaking a law to engage in a recreational activity is quite another. 

If I used pot I could possibly eliminate 2 very dangerous prescription drugs. Since medical pot is not approved here in Kansas, I only use it when shit becomes unbearable. Yet, if I were busted for that then I am treated no different than any recreational user. Are you against approved medical use as well?

[AFK]

...
So the family man who IS responsible and doesn't keep loads of the stuff at home now can because it is legal.  That's where many of the 400,000 (or whatever the number would be) would be coming from.  Kids are risk takers and they are curious but at young ages they aren't going to be terribly elaborate in their schemes to explore those risks.  That's why you see inhalant abuse and prescription drug abuse so high in young ages.  Because they are substances that are right there in the home.  Easy to get a hold of. 

and yet, we don't feel the need to ban those substances.
it is the responsibility of the parent to keep the kids from getting into them, no?

Well they aren't banned because they aren't intended to be recreational drugs.  They have utility as something other than a drug.

true point.
hmm.  silly side question, but what category does viagra fall under? 

Somebody brought it up! A major amount of drug abuse by kids is stealing their parents perfectly legal prescription drugs. Should those be banned as well?

I addressed that on the previous page, last post. 

[Adios]

Sorry, missed that post.

[AFK]

I'm sorry, whether you agree with the law or not, I think exposing your family to that kind of risk is highly irresponsible.  I just can't fathom how it is THAT important.  I have to assume this guy was fully aware of the law and the potential consequences of his actions if he was caught, yes?  I understand someone disagreeing with the law, I understanding having a certain level of passion for wanting marijuana legalized, but I don't know, personally speaking, my first responsibility before any other responsibility is to my family.  If it was a law that was keeping me from feeding my family or providing the basic necessities of life, I can see it.  But to take that risk for drugs?  I just can't understand how it is THAT important.  

Considering that he was not dealing and had no intention of dealing it's quite likely he had no idea that he'd be hit with distribution charges.

Okay so he's not irresponsible, he's just an idiot.  

Name calling?  I don't think that assuming the laws on distribution make SOME sort of sense makes him an idiot.  He was not distributing.  He was not dealing drugs.  Had I not been told by someone else, I don't think it would have ever occurred to me you could be successfully charged with something you clearly did not do.  But of course, he didn't spend tons of time looking up and deciphering every applicable law on everything he did, and went by the experience and knowledge he and everyone around him had in that area, and that makes him stupid.

Or was that an attempt at trolling?

It's not exactly news that marijuana is illegal.  And again, speaking as a father, I think when you are a father you kind of have to think a little more about what you do and how it will impact your child.  As I said, breaking a law to feed or clothe your child is one thing.  Breaking a law to engage in a recreational activity is quite another. 

If I used pot I could possibly eliminate 2 very dangerous prescription drugs. Since medical pot is not approved here in Kansas, I only use it when shit becomes unbearable. Yet, if I were busted for that then I am treated no different than any recreational user. Are you against approved medical use as well?

I'm very skeptical about the need for medical marijuana in the smoked form.  I posted some research a while ago in this thread that shows that there is still some question about how useful and effective the smoked form of marijuana is for medical purposes.  I also think there is going to be an unfortunate side effect in that kids are going to look at this, the fact that it is being prescribed by doctors, and think this means it is okay and legitimate for them to use pot.  

But, I take the pragmatic approach that it is what it is.  It will never be rolled back whether it should be or shouldn't be.  So my job now is to try to fight the message it sends to kids.  Meanwhile, law enforcement and the DEA have to deal with the medical marijuana that is being diverted.  

[Adios]

I'm very skeptical about the need for medical marijuana in the smoked form.  I posted some research a while ago in this thread that shows that there is still some question about how useful and effective the smoked form of marijuana is for medical purposes.  I also think there is going to be an unfortunate side effect in that kids are going to look at this, the fact that it is being prescribed by doctors, and think this means it is okay and legitimate for them to use pot.  

But, I take the pragmatic approach that it is what it is.  It will never be rolled back whether it should be or shouldn't be.  So my job now is to try to fight the message it sends to kids.  Meanwhile, law enforcement and the DEA have to deal with the medical marijuana that is being diverted.  

I don't know what the research shows, but I can tell you that it really helps with pain and it could easily replace my Ambien. Look Ambien up and compare the side effects with that of pot, I think you will be surprised.

Those are my research notes.

[maphdet]

Imma going to jump in here again real quick. (note -I may have missed some posts in the previous pages- so please ignore any repetitiveness)

I really do not think the issue with legalizing pot has anything to do with kids.  Why? Well-Kids are kids and will do whatever it is that kids do, whether it is legal or not. (also as an aside-pot is really not that bad for you. Really it isn't. Just saying.) SO The legalization or non legalization of pot, really in my eyes, Unless of course I am missing something (which I do often) should really be only a discussion about adults and the effect of the adults.

That said-medical pot really does have its place in helping people, especially people with terminal illnesses. It does helps them in a few ways.
1. RELAXATION -And I think this one is the MOST important one. Peeps who are facing medical difficulties are stressed out enough. Give them something to relieve the tension ffs.

2. APPETITE- When someone has just gone through intense treatments and all they taste is METAL in their mouths-a little something to make em wanna eat helps out a lot.

3. Sleeplessness- Pot is a downer and makes for an easier time to nod off.

4. NAUSEA- Pot DOES help with the ease of the feeling of wanting to puke every freaking few hours/half hours.

I could add more But the main factors here are RELAXATION and APPETITE.

And some may say that there already meds out there that help with these sort of things. But frankly, those meds are harder with more side effects, than simple pot.

If pot is illegal the peeps who need it or hell simply wanna use it for whatever reason, face criminal charges that, in my opinion are not necessary.

I dont buy into the 'protect the kids' factor. I see this as an excuse for a fight against something that has been around for ages and used for many different reasons.

The kids argument almost seems to suggest that the responsibility of teaching, raising, and advising our children should be in the hands others versus the parents.


And I am a little confused as to what 'message' the legalization of pot would be sending to kids.

btw-I have two kids of my own and honestly-I do not see how this would affect them. As I am still their parents and will always advise and tech them well. =)

Not trying to come down on you RWHN. Just trying to understand how this would affect kids and how pot is not a need for medical purposes.

[Lord Cataplanga]

This thread is full of poor communication and backfire effect. Any evidence provided here will only make each person's original beliefs stronger. http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/ Which incidentally, is why every single one of these threads goes this direction.

That's a very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

See? This thread wasn't useless after all.

[BadBeast]

Legalisation of "Medical" Pot is just another way for the State to control it. (The same way that they try to control it through banning it completely)
It's like, "You can smoke Pot, but. . . . . ."
By far the biggest social problem offered by Pot, stems from the fact it's illegal. Remove the legislation against it, and you've reduced 95% of the social harm it does. It really is that easy. As for those pesky kids, don't they have parents?

[AFK]

You mean like how legalizing alcohol reduced most of its social harm.



That's pretty rich.