London calling

[Cramulus]

Unfortunately, power, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed.  Instead, it tends to get redistributed.  I'm still not decided whether neo-feudalism is any better than neo-autocracy, but I will admit it is, at least for our political culture, different.  And sometimes, that is all the change one needs.

[Cain]

The police and government are arguing over who should be blamed more for the response to the riots.

As the police point out, they did in fact implement the strategy which ended the riots.  But, as the government pointed out, they had to field police officers with no riot training, and in the meantime several cities were set on fire and had lots of stuff of stolen.

So it's kinda fun.  I'm actually more on the side of the government here, though that is hardly an endorsement.  Coppers dun fucked it up.  But it's not like we ever saw riots like that in the Blair or Brown years...

Also, no-one at all is talking about why the riots only took place in England.  That is Not To Be Discussed.

[Cain]

Oh, OK, this is funny.

Apparently, some people are spreading the conspiracy theory that the once-powerful Noonan crime family were behind the Manchester riots, and other riots besides.

Now, back in the day, the Noonans were fairly terrifying, it was true.  And for a lot of the people rioting in Manchester, there is probably the feeling that the Noonan's did for more for them than some idiot MP like Hazel Blears, or certainly the local police. 

But two of the Noonans are dead, which is kind of a problem for the Noonan inspired crime wave.

Especially since the third Noonan, Domenyk, got nicked for stealing cigarettes and booze.  Also, Domenyk has changed his last name to Lattlay-Fottfoy.

Which is an awesome name for a would-be crime lord.  Mr Lattlay-Fottfoy would strike fear and terror into the heart of any man who heard the name (and didn't immediately burst into laughter).

A criminal genius Mr Lattlay-Fottfoy is not.  So somewhow I think the conspiracy theory here is, shall we say, not quite accurate?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, OK, this is funny.

Apparently, some people are spreading the conspiracy theory that the once-powerful Noonan crime family were behind the Manchester riots, and other riots besides.

Now, back in the day, the Noonans were fairly terrifying, it was true.  And for a lot of the people rioting in Manchester, there is probably the feeling that the Noonan's did for more for them than some idiot MP like Hazel Blears, or certainly the local police. 

But two of the Noonans are dead, which is kind of a problem for the Noonan inspired crime wave.

Especially since the third Noonan, Domenyk, got nicked for stealing cigarettes and booze.  Also, Domenyk has changed his last name to Lattlay-Fottfoy.

Which is an awesome name for a would-be crime lord.  Mr Lattlay-Fottfoy would strike fear and terror into the heart of any man who heard the name (and didn't immediately burst into laughter).

A criminal genius Mr Lattlay-Fottfoy is not.  So somewhow I think the conspiracy theory here is, shall we say, not quite accurate?

Domenyk Lattlay-Fottfoy is an AMAZING name. AMAZING. 

[Cain]

It is indeed.

Also, amazing racist outburst by well noted idiot on the BBC.  I can't be bothered to go into the tedious details, so I will quote someone who already has:

Oh my, the horror! A man who is notorious for making idiotic statements on television has made some more idiotic statements on television.

Specifically, he's saying that white people are turning into criminals because they have been in some way Blackified by malignant osmosis with some black people, who aren't themselves criminals due to biological or racial characteristics - oh, heaven forfend that anyone should take it that way! - but because of "cultural factors". Seasoned idiot-watchers will notice that Cultural Factors are the Biological or Racial Characteristics that it's okay to cite in the press.

Shuggy makes the appropriate point that the sole reason for asking David Starkey onto your current affairs show is to horrify the audience into pearl-clutching paroxysms. He isn't there to clarify issues or to represent Britain's sizeable ignorant reactionary demographic - he's there specifically to make offensive and stupid remarks.

[Disco Pickle]

It is indeed.

Also, amazing racist outburst by well noted idiot on the BBC.  I can't be bothered to go into the tedious details, so I will quote someone who already has:

Oh my, the horror! A man who is notorious for making idiotic statements on television has made some more idiotic statements on television.

Specifically, he's saying that white people are turning into criminals because they have been in some way Blackified by malignant osmosis with some black people, who aren't themselves criminals due to biological or racial characteristics - oh, heaven forfend that anyone should take it that way! - but because of "cultural factors". Seasoned idiot-watchers will notice that Cultural Factors are the Biological or Racial Characteristics that it's okay to cite in the press.

Shuggy makes the appropriate point that the sole reason for asking David Starkey onto your current affairs show is to horrify the audience into pearl-clutching paroxysms. He isn't there to clarify issues or to represent Britain's sizeable ignorant reactionary demographic - he's there specifically to make offensive and stupid remarks.

Similar to the scare-mongering in the lat 80's early 90's here with regard to "Rap and Hip Hop culture infecting otherwise upstanding white folk"

That's not a quotable source, but I have no doubt those exact words have been said many times.

As if color of skin somehow inclines people toward criminal acts.

[Cain]

Yeah.  Over here, a few of the words change (only a very few), but the sentiments are pretty much the same.

I will admit I am somewhat surprised at the level of racism directed towards black people in the UK still.  I kinda expect it towards South Asians and Arabs, but unlike with the USA, and to a degree France, it's not very overt in the UK at all.  I know historically, things were very different, with the National Front, Enoch Powell and the rest ("rivers of blood" oh my!), and there are continuing issues with kids of Jamiacan origins in education...but the level of overtly racist vitriol is kinda shocking to me.  And because I'm not used to hearing it as much, it makes it all the more worrying to realise this has been bubbling along underground for quite a while in the national consciousness.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I've noticed that it never goes away, it just gets sneakier when things are quiet. Then some black person somewhere does something and the racists start squawking and throwing feces.

It's pretty institutionalized, and they sneak it in any way they can. My kids went to some church picnic once for the games and free cookies, and came back laughing because the pastor had said "All rap music comes from the devil". To make it like he wasn't just slamming black people, he added "AC/DC doesn't write any of their own music."  

[Disco Pickle]

Yeah.  Over here, a few of the words change (only a very few), but the sentiments are pretty much the same.

I will admit I am somewhat surprised at the level of racism directed towards black people in the UK still.  I kinda expect it towards South Asians and Arabs, but unlike with the USA, and to a degree France, it's not very overt in the UK at all.  I know historically, things were very different, with the National Front, Enoch Powell and the rest ("rivers of blood" oh my!), and there are continuing issues with kids of Jamiacan origins in education...but the level of overtly racist vitriol is kinda shocking to me.  And because I'm not used to hearing it as much, it makes it all the more worrying to realise this has been bubbling along underground for quite a while in the national consciousness.

I have been kicking around this idea in my head for a few years about race and how it does factor in to people's thoughts.  Mostly white people, since I'm one of the melanin deficient.  

It goes a little something like this:  The planet has ended "official" slavery or state run slavery in what, the last 200 years?  That's not a very long time.  In that time we've taken some really big steps to try and help even the playing field.  Some would say not enough, and they make fair arguments.  Socially, it's becoming more and more of a taboo to call out skin color as a reason for disliking someone on sight.  That has only been happening for what, the last 100?  The death of Jim Crow laws and Segregation only happened here less than a century ago.  A lot of those same people that defended that shit are still alive.  More importantly, their children are still alive, and breeding, and possibly infecting their children with the same shit.  

I have high hopes that the spreading of that sort of vitriol is dying with every successive generation, and I really do believe it is.  At the same time, I see the outrage at anyone still a racist and have to say that the expectation that it is going to disappear as quickly as your computer will become obsolete is probably a symptom of the information age, wanting change now.

That being said, I think it's still the most healthy thing.  Point it out and call it what it is when you see it.  Shine a light on it and don't let anyone hide under the blanket of "My parents taught it to me."  Don't fall into the leftist meme that racism is only a "white people problem"  Just don't expect it's going to disappear in one generation.  Racism exists and will likely always exist on parts of the planet.  It runs closely parallel with nationalism, a useless fucking waste of energy and thought if ever there was one.  I guess what I'm saying is keep chipping at it.  Wear it down.  But don't expect to see the end of it in our lifetime.

</end> soapbox tangent

[BabylonHoruv]

Jim Crow and Segregation ended in the 60's, so that's half a century, and even after that it was socially acceptable in a lot of circles to dislike someone based on skin color.  Racism also seems to be increasing in the younger generation, unlike homophobia which does actually seem to be dying off. 

Our government still drums up nationalism when it is convenient, and I think until there is a much greater level of income equality between races in the US that racism will persist.  Prejudice against the poor will never go away and as long as black people are more likely to be poor than white people middle class white people are going to be racist, whether they admit it or not.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Jim Crow and Segregation ended in the 60's, so that's half a century, and even after that it was socially acceptable in a lot of circles to dislike someone based on skin color.  Racism also seems to be increasing in the younger generation, unlike homophobia which does actually seem to be dying off. 

Our government still drums up nationalism when it is convenient, and I think until there is a much greater level of income equality between races in the US that racism will persist.  Prejudice against the poor will never go away and as long as black people are more likely to be poor than white people middle class white people are going to be racist, whether they admit it or not.

What are you basing this off of? Everything Ive heard has said the opposite.

[Disco Pickle]

Jim Crow and Segregation ended in the 60's, so that's half a century, and even after that it was socially acceptable in a lot of circles to dislike someone based on skin color.  Racism also seems to be increasing in the younger generation, unlike homophobia which does actually seem to be dying off. 

Our government still drums up nationalism when it is convenient, and I think until there is a much greater level of income equality between races in the US that racism will persist.  Prejudice against the poor rich will never go away and as long as black white people are more likely to be poor rich than white black people middle lower class white black people are going to be racist, whether they admit it or not.

Not entirely sure that's consistent enough to be true, but then I'm not black. 

I'd be very interested in any opinions on how swapping those words does or does not have a basis in reality.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I actually don't have a good handle on racism in America, despite being a "person of color". For one thing, I'm in Portland, and for another, everywhere I've traveled has tended to accept me as "close enough". I guess that's a benefit of being a mixed-race American in this century. I'm enough white that white people tend to accept me, black enough that black people tend to accept me, and brown enough that brown people... well, they generally seem to find me some kind of exotic in-between.

Can't recommend it highly enough.

[BabylonHoruv]

Jim Crow and Segregation ended in the 60's, so that's half a century, and even after that it was socially acceptable in a lot of circles to dislike someone based on skin color.  Racism also seems to be increasing in the younger generation, unlike homophobia which does actually seem to be dying off. 

Our government still drums up nationalism when it is convenient, and I think until there is a much greater level of income equality between races in the US that racism will persist.  Prejudice against the poor rich will never go away and as long as black white people are more likely to be poor rich than white black people middle lower class white black people are going to be racist, whether they admit it or not.

Not entirely sure that's consistent enough to be true, but then I'm not black. 

I'd be very interested in any opinions on how swapping those words does or does not have a basis in reality.

I don't know if that's accurate or not, but if it is it has the same solution, more equality of income between races.

I know I am prejudiced against rich people.

Glittersnatch,  I'm going on what I see in the papers and my interactions with younger people.  I don't have any hard studies of the fact so may be totally wrong.

[Cain]

Police and government continuing to argue.

This is fun.