Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I NEVER go out to bars and such alone and prefer to go with at least one other female if I can help it.

I watch my drinks at all times and only accept them from a friend or a bar tender.
-- If I need to leave briefly and I don't have someone I trust to watch my drink, I'll dump it and buy another if necessary

I keep my receipts and stash them in pockets rather than a purse so that if something does happen, they have a starting place.

I park as close as possible to the place I'm going to.

The names and numbers of everyone I go out with regularly are written on a sheet of paper and kept on my desk (even though I sorely resent that I have to tell people where I'm going all the time and who with)

When selecting clothing for the evening, my thoughts run along the lines of: "what if something bad happens?" This is not solely "can I run in these jeans?" but also "will I be blamed if I wear that shirt?" (although not in so many words)

When going to my car from a bar, etc., I either call someone or pretend to, if it's too late at night. If there was someone who creeped me out that night, I will make a male friend walk me to my car in return for a ride back or to his car, if we're leaving at the same time.

I'm investing in a CS gas keychain when I have the money.

I check my car for stow-aways before sliding in (I was really excited that my phone came with a flashlight app), no matter where I am - my house, a friend's house, a bar, it doesn't matter.

Even when I had a beeper for the car, I chose to use the key to unlock my door because the beeper unlocked all the car doors.

I have mastered the art of locking the car door as I close it after me and, at this point, it's an ingrained habit.

For whatever reason, I rarely have to deal with street harassment (I can think of like, three instances in the last five years), but I go on as if I hadn't actually heard what was said to me on the blue moon someone cat calls me. I haven't had anyone confront me over being ignored or chase after me to make sure I heard the comment, and I don't know what I'll do if it happens (which, gentlemen, it does; I've just been lucky apparently).

I'm NIGEL. Plus, I'm dead; it's amazing how much less guys hit on dead girls.

But seriously, after the brush-with-rape I had a couple years ago, I am ruder, more aggressive, and less likely to leave a bar alone. I will have a friend walk me to my car, and I don't walk or ride my bike home alone as I used to. I will tell guys to fuck off, and I will aggressively fuck with them and creep them out if they bother me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

OK, I feel like that's progress.

This happened kind of a while back so i don't know if you've seen the following things before you responded or what.

I want to point out that a sexual interaction shouldn't really ever involve you "getting past barriers" other than the general, normal, layers of intimacy we pass through as we get to know people.

These are the very same barriers/boundaries i have been talking about all along.

You seem oddly convinced that women need to have their natural objections soothed and barriers coaxed down. It's bullshit. Sure, we want to make sure that a guy is trustworthy and safe and probably not AIDS-ridden or a methhead before we fuck him, but all of that PUA bullshit about "convincing"... it's bullshit. It's dehumanizing.

I am not employing PUA techniques and i understand why you think they are dehumanizing, i agree.  That's why i don't use them.  You keep firing shots at what you think i'm doing everytime PUA and their techniques are brought up, then time and energy is wasted when i have to explain that in i don't fit in the mold of what you have a problem with.

We're out there, hoping we meet an attractive guy we can enjoy a sexual relationship with. You shouldn't have to address anyone objections, push anyone's boundaries, or in any other way talk around someone's NOT wanting to get laid.

These questions ultimately DO have to be addressed at some point.  If you read something on wikipedia and have to conduct your own study to determine whether it's true or not, that's your prerogative.  I never suggested it wasn't.  If I present you with what you need to make an informed decision and you decide not in my favor, it's all good.  I prefer to frame it as being IN your favor anyways.

You just need to get to know someone, without a bunch of contrived bullshit.

You can see my reply to placid dingo about tactics the other page ago.  If you can believe that, then you may rid yourself of the belief that i use PUA techniques or canned material or lie to people about who i am and what i do.  We might even be able to forward.  I know that i have to re-examine my interactions with people in yet another dimension (kyriarchy).

Ah, fucking hell. Just when I thought you were capable of learning, you have to dig in your heels some more and screech about how you were really right all along. 

What you are referring to as "boundaries", BTW, aren't WHAT ANYONE ELSE REFERS TO AS BOUNDARIES. The progression of intimacy is NOT "BOUNDARY PUSHING".

So SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU FUCKING ASPIE TWIT.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I'm NIGEL. Plus, I'm dead; it's amazing how much less guys hit on dead girls.

Statistically, dead girls are almost 90% less likely to go to the police in the case of a crime.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm NIGEL. Plus, I'm dead; it's amazing how much less guys hit on dead girls.

Statistically, dead girls are almost 90% less likely to go to the police in the case of a crime.

This is true, but we're also 900% creepier than living girls, and I think that really turns off the would-be suitors, including 85% of rapists.

[Pope Lecherous]

Ah, fucking hell. Just when I thought you were capable of learning, you have to dig in your heels some more and screech about how you were really right all along. 

I am still trying to clarify my meaning here.  I'm not worried about being right.  I simply want you to understand wtf i'm talking about.  Sorry that i'm doing a poor job.  I have already stated that i think you are more focused on destroying what i'm saying instead of attempting to understand what i mean.  Again, sorry that i'm not making it easy for you to do that.

What you are referring to as "boundaries", BTW, aren't WHAT ANYONE ELSE REFERS TO AS BOUNDARIES. The progression of intimacy is NOT "BOUNDARY PUSHING".

Fine.  Instead of overcoming or addressing boundaries we can call it the progression of intimacy.  I'm fine with that, it's much more accurate.  This could have a happened a long time ago.  This inability to communicate through writing kind of highlights that i'm not in the business of making connections for people.  There's a lot more context IRL for a person to draw from and make the connections that i want them to.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ah, fucking hell. Just when I thought you were capable of learning, you have to dig in your heels some more and screech about how you were really right all along. 

I am still trying to clarify my meaning here.  I'm not worried about being right.  I simply want you to understand wtf i'm talking about.  Sorry that i'm doing a poor job.  I have already stated that i think you are more focused on destroying what i'm saying instead of attempting to understand what i mean.  Again, sorry that i'm not making it easy for you to do that.

What you are referring to as "boundaries", BTW, aren't WHAT ANYONE ELSE REFERS TO AS BOUNDARIES. The progression of intimacy is NOT "BOUNDARY PUSHING".

Fine.  Instead of overcoming or addressing boundaries we can call it the progression of intimacy.  I'm fine with that, it's much more accurate.  This could have a happened a long time ago.  This inability to speak write kind of highlights that i'm not in the business of making connections for people.  There's a lot more context IRL for a person to draw from and make the connections that i want them to.

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I'm NIGEL. Plus, I'm dead; it's amazing how much less guys hit on dead girls.

Statistically, dead girls are almost 90% less likely to go to the police in the case of a crime.

This is true, but we're also 900% creepier than living girls, and I think that really turns off the would-be suitors, including 85% of rapists.

We should leave lifelike corpse dolls lying around gutters with all their orifices lined with some kind of transdermal cyanide lotion, just to catch that last 15%.

PS regarding the actual topic of this thread:

Whenever a conversation about having sex reaches a point where a guy feels like he has to argue the point, what kind of scumbag doesn't have the bell ding in his head, and realize that's the perfect time to move on? What line of reasoning goes from "Let's have sex" to "But here's why you should change your mind and say yes" without meandering through douchebag territory?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm NIGEL. Plus, I'm dead; it's amazing how much less guys hit on dead girls.

Statistically, dead girls are almost 90% less likely to go to the police in the case of a crime.

This is true, but we're also 900% creepier than living girls, and I think that really turns off the would-be suitors, including 85% of rapists.

We should leave lifelike corpse dolls lying around gutters with all their orifices lined with some kind of transdermal cyanide lotion, just to catch that last 15%.

PS regarding the actual topic of this thread:

Whenever a conversation about having sex reaches a point where a guy feels like he has to argue the point, what kind of scumbag doesn't have the bell ding in his head, and realize that's the perfect time to move on? What line of reasoning goes from "Let's have sex" to "But here's why you should change your mind and say yes" without meandering through douchebag territory?

I kinda wonder the same.

But then again, I can be... kinda aggressive... when it comes to trying to get laid, with someone I am already sleeping with on the regular. On the other hand, I'm five foot three and not exactly physically threatening.

[Pope Lecherous]

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people

Not with. FOR

, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

No.

At the time i poorly tried to interject what i thought was the difference between an objection and a personal boundary and what you do when you meet resistance from either one.  For personal boundaries, one simply goes through the process that allows for them to be opened for you.  Of course, i wanted to emphasize that the person being evaluated for trust can assist the process.  For objections of a situational or logistical nature, one can be prepared so that they are not a factor, for the most part.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people

Not with. FOR

, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

No.

At the time i poorly tried to interject what i thought was the difference between an objection and a personal boundary and what you do when you meet resistance from either one.  For personal boundaries, one simply goes through the process that allows for them to be opened for you.  Of course, i wanted to emphasize that the person being evaluated for trust can assist the process.  For objections of a situational or logistical nature, one can be prepared so that they are not a factor, for the most part.

Well, that is good to hear.

Making connections "for" people? What does that mean? The closest thing I can think of is facilitating a connection between one person and another person... you can't make connections "for" another person.

If you are trying to make a connection with another person and you meet resistance, and you want to progress the level of intimacy so that you no longer meet resistance, the only ethical thing to do is work WITH their boundaries and develop intimacy until the boundary no longer applies to your relationship with them.

I'd like to point out that your incessant use of passive voice is really offputting.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people

Not with. FOR

, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

No.

At the time i poorly tried to interject what i thought was the difference between an objection and a personal boundary and what you do when you meet resistance from either one.  For personal boundaries, one simply goes through the process that allows for them to be opened for you.  Of course, i wanted to emphasize that the person being evaluated for trust can assist the process.  For objections of a situational or logistical nature, one can be prepared so that they are not a factor, for the most part.

I guess I'm doing it wrong, I've never thought of women as a puzzle box I'm supposed to fuck with until they become "opened for me." Admittedly I'm terrible at playing the game, but I've always failed when I made my objective sex. I tend to have more success when my objective is making a connection with a person.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people

Not with. FOR

, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

No.

At the time i poorly tried to interject what i thought was the difference between an objection and a personal boundary and what you do when you meet resistance from either one.  For personal boundaries, one simply goes through the process that allows for them to be opened for you.  Of course, i wanted to emphasize that the person being evaluated for trust can assist the process.  For objections of a situational or logistical nature, one can be prepared so that they are not a factor, for the most part.

I guess I'm doing it wrong, I've never thought of women as a puzzle box I'm supposed to fuck with until they become "opened for me." Admittedly I'm terrible at playing the game, but I've always failed when I made my objective sex. I tend to have more success when my objective is making a connection with a person.

Sounds like you're doin' it right, since people aren't a puzzle box to solve or a game to play, but people to get to know and connect with.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people

Not with. FOR

, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

No.

At the time i poorly tried to interject what i thought was the difference between an objection and a personal boundary and what you do when you meet resistance from either one.  For personal boundaries, one simply goes through the process that allows for them to be opened for you.  Of course, i wanted to emphasize that the person being evaluated for trust can assist the process.  For objections of a situational or logistical nature, one can be prepared so that they are not a factor, for the most part.

I guess I'm doing it wrong, I've never thought of women as a puzzle box I'm supposed to fuck with until they become "opened for me." Admittedly I'm terrible at playing the game, but I've always failed when I made my objective sex. I tend to have more success when my objective is making a connection with a person.

Sounds like you're doin' it right, since people aren't a puzzle box to solve or a game to play, but people to get to know and connect with.

Excellent news. If they were puzzle boxes, getting laid could result in Pinhead.

[Juana]

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Funnily enough, I AM in the business of making connections with people

Not with. FOR

, and this conversation, if you recall, started with you objecting to my statement that a man pushing a woman's boundaries to try to get her to sleep with him is a red flag.

Do you still object to that statement?

No.

At the time i poorly tried to interject what i thought was the difference between an objection and a personal boundary and what you do when you meet resistance from either one.  For personal boundaries, one simply goes through the process that allows for them to be opened for you.  Of course, i wanted to emphasize that the person being evaluated for trust can assist the process.  For objections of a situational or logistical nature, one can be prepared so that they are not a factor, for the most part.

I guess I'm doing it wrong, I've never thought of women as a puzzle box I'm supposed to fuck with until they become "opened for me." Admittedly I'm terrible at playing the game, but I've always failed when I made my objective sex. I tend to have more success when my objective is making a connection with a person.

Sounds like you're doin' it right, since people aren't a puzzle box to solve or a game to play, but people to get to know and connect with.

Excellent news. If they were puzzle boxes, getting laid could result in Pinhead.

Perfect analogy.