the Wholy Fnord - and Experimental DiPentatheon

[Kai]

Discussion reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cam2kK7J_8k

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

 

I can't decide if I want to encourage it, laugh or just watch the show...

[P3nT4gR4m]

I can't decide if I want to encourage it, laugh or just watch the show...

There's no reason you can't try a bit of each before you decide

[Ixxie]

Kai: all are Manifestations of the Chao. I agree with the observation of TGRR - its all Maya. Then again - I would supplement that by saying that the preceding sentence is also Maya.

Aloha: interesting! Zoroasterism seemed to be quite Dualistic when I last examined it - although admittedly this was a superficial graze. On the other hand that fits the seem of the Magi - which after all plays with the Dual (Maya). Anatolian origin makes sense..... I read Hecate played a big part of Demeter's Agrarian cult and the Eleusinian Mysteries. AFAIR current theories place the origin of agriculture in Anatolia so its possible this is a case of Cultural Hitchhiking (as indeed I suspect is the case with the Proto-Indo-European language).

Cram: nice idea xD those look like mighty fine witches, it seems Hecate has been manifesting her ass in the 20th century too.

Kai: That video is awesome xD that guy is awesome - I have but one gripe: I believe he misinterpreted religion's etymology, for clearly the binding is not to a belief but to the universe.

[P3nT4gR4m]

[Ixxie]

cf. the first sentence of this thread     

[Pæs]

cf. the first sentence of this thread     

No, shut up, you are clearly some kind of wizard.

[Faust]

if that doesn't say triple goddess, get off the bridge

Tasha Yar Died for our sins.

[Kai]

Kai: all are Manifestations of the Chao. I agree with the observation of TGRR - its all Maya. Then again - I would supplement that by saying that the preceding sentence is also Maya.

Aloha: interesting! Zoroasterism seemed to be quite Dualistic when I last examined it - although admittedly this was a superficial graze. On the other hand that fits the seem of the Magi - which after all plays with the Dual (Maya). Anatolian origin makes sense..... I read Hecate played a big part of Demeter's Agrarian cult and the Eleusinian Mysteries. AFAIR current theories place the origin of agriculture in Anatolia so its possible this is a case of Cultural Hitchhiking (as indeed I suspect is the case with the Proto-Indo-European language).

Cram: nice idea xD those look like mighty fine witches, it seems Hecate has been manifesting her ass in the 20th century too.

Kai: That video is awesome xD that guy is awesome - I have but one gripe: I believe he misinterpreted religion's etymology, for clearly the binding is not to a belief but to the universe.

1) So, some sort of pseudo-panentheism?

2) No, he got that right, binding to a belief.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Kai: all are Manifestations of the Chao. I agree with the observation of TGRR - its all Maya. Then again - I would supplement that by saying that the preceding sentence is also Maya.

Aloha: interesting! Zoroasterism seemed to be quite Dualistic when I last examined it - although admittedly this was a superficial graze. On the other hand that fits the seem of the Magi - which after all plays with the Dual (Maya). Anatolian origin makes sense..... I read Hecate played a big part of Demeter's Agrarian cult and the Eleusinian Mysteries. AFAIR current theories place the origin of agriculture in Anatolia so its possible this is a case of Cultural Hitchhiking (as indeed I suspect is the case with the Proto-Indo-European language).

Cram: nice idea xD those look like mighty fine witches, it seems Hecate has been manifesting her ass in the 20th century too.

Kai: That video is awesome xD that guy is awesome - I have but one gripe: I believe he misinterpreted religion's etymology, for clearly the binding is not to a belief but to the universe.

Zoroastrianism appears dualistic on the surface, and at various points during its history it may well have been dualistic, but at least one modern Zoroastrian priest defines Ahriman as the absence of Ahura Mazda, rather than the opposite of Ahura Mazda. It's an intriguing thought, since that would be like describing Satan as the absence of Jesus, rather than his enemy. Then again, Christianity is not properly dualistic either, since Satan is not given equal status. And also, even if Zoroastrianism is entirely dualistic, it's a different sort of dualism than that found in Discordianism, since it's morality based.

[Ixxie]

1) I guess it is a sort of Non-Dual Panentheism yes - with these deities intended to metaphorically map the relationships between the Erisian and Anerisian aspects.

2) I would love a citation on that! I always figured the Binding was taken in the sense of Yoga - a Union of self and non-self or any apparent polarity..... Perhaps the meaning drifted?

3) I'll take your word for it; so it seems the Ahura Mazda is like the Non-Dual (i.e. the Chao) and the absence of this - Ahriman -is the dual? In the above proposed scheme the Dude is the Jesus figure - a symbol of the non-dual bridging. Hecate is the converse Duality producing entity - the Witch Goddess / Satan. I do understand the difference in the type of Dualism - indeed the Entropic dualism in Discordianism is one of its chief appeals to me

This discussion produced the following thought: The supreme brilliance of the Sacred Chao is that it inherently symbolizes to the Non-Dualism of Dualism (the Anerisian) and Non-Dual (the Erisian).

[Nephew Twiddleton]

3) I'll take your word for it; so it seems the Ahura Mazda is like the Non-Dual (i.e. the Chao) and the absence of this - Ahriman -is the dual? In the above proposed scheme the Dude is the Jesus figure - a symbol of the non-dual bridging. Hecate is the converse Duality producing entity - the Witch Goddess / Satan. I do understand the difference in the type of Dualism - indeed the Entropic dualism in Discordianism is one of its chief appeals to me

Not quite. Ahura Mazda is a distinct and unambiguous figure, like the creator god of Abrahamic faiths. Well, less ambiguous anyway, since Yahweh is known to contradict himself for the purpose of being a jerk. For example, Ahura Mazda is worshiped with fire because he is associated with light. Darkness isn't its own thing, and not even the opposite of light. It's just an absence of light. No photons, nothing to talk about. In the dualistic model, Ahriman is an evil spirit, rather than some spot that Ahura Mazda missed, but the priest I said there really wasn't anything to Ahriman, since Ahriman is merely a descriptor of something that lacks that Mazda touch. (Ahura Mazda="Wise Lord" or something like that)

[Ixxie]

Allrighty.... curious configuration that is :P  I filed this wonderful curiosity for my later senile years when I plan on taking copious amounts of drugs and studying obscure mysticism.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Eris and Aneris, I get... though I'm not sure why Aneris should necessarily be male. That seems like an unnecessary stereotype and might give rise to the idea that the feminine is disordered and the masculine is ordered. I also find The Dude to be a poor fit for the Son/Sun archetype... particularly if he's the product of Eris/Aneris. The Dude doesn't strike me as a  balance or bridge between order and disorder, The Dude seems more likely a tie to The Fool, the innocent Parsifal starting on a journey that he doesn't understand and doesn't control, becoming something greater by the end of the journey.

As for the Magus, I would think this might be better fit with an identity of one who brings about change, the alchemical conversion of order to disorder, or disorder to order. In fact, I might be tempted to call this entity "Apophenia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia which is a cool name for a deity and also one that has shown up before in Discordia/Chaos Magic circles.

So who would the Son/Sun be, if not The Dude?

The bridge between that which is ordered and that which is disordered. Something that flip flops between the two perhaps? If we were to consider chaos theory for a moment, we may investigate the so-called "Feigenbaum sequence" that is the process wherein a system given a range of parameters is ordered for a period of time (T), when we go beyond the range the system becomes chaotic until we reach 2T (period doubling) at which point it again becomes ordered, then we reach the next threshold and the system becomes chaotic agaon until the next doubling wherein it returns to order and on and on. Perhaps an inspiration for a Son figure might arise from this?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Eris and Aneris, I get... though I'm not sure why Aneris should necessarily be male. That seems like an unnecessary stereotype and might give rise to the idea that the feminine is disordered and the masculine is ordered. I also find The Dude to be a poor fit for the Son/Sun archetype... particularly if he's the product of Eris/Aneris. The Dude doesn't strike me as a  balance or bridge between order and disorder, The Dude seems more likely a tie to The Fool, the innocent Parsifal starting on a journey that he doesn't understand and doesn't control, becoming something greater by the end of the journey.

As for the Magus, I would think this might be better fit with an identity of one who brings about change, the alchemical conversion of order to disorder, or disorder to order. In fact, I might be tempted to call this entity "Apophenia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia which is a cool name for a deity and also one that has shown up before in Discordia/Chaos Magic circles.

So who would the Son/Sun be, if not The Dude?

The bridge between that which is ordered and that which is disordered. Something that flip flops between the two perhaps? If we were to consider chaos theory for a moment, we may investigate the so-called "Feigenbaum sequence" that is the process wherein a system given a range of parameters is ordered for a period of time (T), when we go beyond the range the system becomes chaotic until we reach 2T (period doubling) at which point it again becomes ordered, then we reach the next threshold and the system becomes chaotic agaon until the next doubling wherein it returns to order and on and on. Perhaps an inspiration for a Son figure might arise from this?