New Proposal for the Secret of Life

[Jenne]

You can't blame humanity, though, in the scheme of things.  The human being has reached great heights in creation, re-creation and surpassing of things physically limiting.  I'm just thinking of moon travel and the like, I guess.

To be proud of such achievments, and expect further increase of them, in escalation, is to be expected.

But you are right--forces of  nature will out...though I have to say that studies of nature can differ in conclusionary aspects such that it IS quite difficult at times to know what is natural and what is forced environment.  We are, after all, part of the Earth and its environment.

[AFK]

Here's a notion:

Humanity gets to a point where it is satisfied and stops "advancing."

Possible?

Probably not. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Here's a notion:

Humanity gets to a point where it is satisfied and stops "advancing."

Possible?

Probably not. 

I wonder if that is as deeply ingrained in us as our very DNA itself.

[Jenne]

All signs would point to that...til the nukyular haulocaust, that is.

[B_M_W]

You can't blame humanity, though, in the scheme of things.  The human being has reached great heights in creation, re-creation and surpassing of things physically limiting.  I'm just thinking of moon travel and the like, I guess.

To be proud of such achievments, and expect further increase of them, in escalation, is to be expected.

But you are right--forces of  nature will out...though I have to say that studies of nature can differ in conclusionary aspects such that it IS quite difficult at times to know what is natural and what is forced environment.  We are, after all, part of the Earth and its environment.

Yet those things are just another adaptation of getting by, no more special and no more useful. Insects have no need of complex cognative abilities, they get by just fine without them. Their forms and adaptations are the dominate ones on the planet, at least in bredth of species joined with environs. If you look at just how much success even just one order has had, say, the Coleoptera (beetles) or Diptera (true flies), it puts the sucesses of primates to shame.

Sure, we're alowed to have some pride and bias to humans because we are human, but that doesn't mean we have the right, nay, the athority or ability to put ourselves at the top of the tree, as the most derived form, as the most advanced.

When you consider this closely, you enter into anthropocentric circular reasoning; What makes us the most advanced? Our intelligence? Beetles get by without that and there are hundreds of thousands of species of them. Our physical bodies? Don't make me laugh; primates living in a temperate zone? lol, the only way our puny bodies get by is by making "fur" to wear out of other materials. Our society? Even more laughable; you don't see the honeybees having the troubles we do in their social and efficient world. Our achievements? Ha, we go to the moon, split the atom, chart the universe, yet we fail continuously to find happiness.

I think it comes down to this: We are best, because we say we are best.

Sorry about the jack, Jenne, just needed to lay that down, it was clogging my colon.

[Starship, take me]

Beetles get by without that and there are hundreds of thousands of species of them.

Beetles don't have the ability to live off Earth.  Unless they're living on the ISS as part of an experiment.

Our physical bodies? Don't make me laugh; primates living in a temperate zone?

Which other primate species can live in any climate zone on Earth?

I think it comes down to this: We are best, because we say we are best.

/
HUMANITY!  HUMANITY!  HUMANITY!
\

[B_M_W]

I should reiterate and specify: We are best, ONLY because we say we are best.

And to your comments:

1. Any humans living off planet still need an umbilical cord here. There is no other planet to life on, and if the astronauts were stuck up at the ISS they would soon perish. Im sceptical of any and every person who talks of living elsewhere in the solar system; to me it doesn't seem plausible. And for the most part, I say fuck you to people who suggest living extraterra. Yet another reason to despise humanity: We fuck something up and we think "oopse", and we go on to fuck something else up leaving what we have fucked up without a second thought.

You know, the more I think about it, the more rediculous the whole "we can go to the moon" arguement is. Think about it: what does having a couple of humans land on the moon and leave do for humans? It doesn't do shit, is what it does. Its the whole "we did it just to say we can" arguement again. The more I think about it, the more I think "fuck the fucking space programs, just one more pile of human bullshit on the mountain that is already there".

2. No other primates can live on any temperate zone, and the only reason we can is because we manufacture artificial furs for ourselves. We're puny and easily destructable, even more than most primates.

[LMNO]

Our achievements? Ha, we go to the moon, split the atom, chart the universe, yet we fail continuously to find happiness.

But we have the potential to be happy, which is more than you can say for most of the other creatures on the planet.



Can an mud wasp be happy?

[Starship, take me]

I should reiterate and specify: We are best, ONLY because we say we are best.

Well, the concept of a "best" species is ridiculous.  Each species fills the niche it adapted to, and will go extinct when conditions can't sustain it.  Many of the species that evolved during the Cambrian explosion are extinct now.  Atmospheric and geologic conditions changed, with no no help from humans.

I'm not a fan of the whole "The Earth is to crowded!  The sky is falling!  Let's have hundreds of millions of people die!" argument.  Take a look at the idiocy of John Zerzan.  Billions of people would have to die so the world can be how he wants it to be.
It says a lot when people on this board who have computers, cars, cushie jobs shuffling paperwork, college degrees, etc. whine like Emo fucks about "sheep" (for the slaughter) instead of some NWO flunky who screams for the blood of people who work much harder to survive and have much less impact on the environment than anyone who spend hours a day posting on the 'net with a computer full of heavy metals.

1. Any humans living off planet still need an umbilical cord here.

Or cut the umbilical cord, nurture the baby and eventually it can fend for itself.
Humans on Earth still need an umbilical cord, it's called interdependence.

There is no other planet to life on,

So fix the problem.  Energy is cheaper in space since a solar panel can be pointed at the Sun constantly.  There are plenty of minerals out in the asteroid belt that are extremely rare here on Earth.  Plant seeds, microorganism, fungal spores, etc. could easily be transported to a Lagrange point station.  Sure, all two Biosphere projects had problems, but they gathered data about biology and Murphy's Law.

and if the astronauts were stuck up at the ISS they would soon perish.

Tell it to Steppin' Razor.
We're living in a sci-fi novel.  103 years after Kitty Hawk a myriad of aircraft Orville and Wilbur could only dream of flit around the skies daily.
And if you feel to whine about the dehumanizing, unending march of technology--smash your flush toilet and dig a fucking latrine on the campus of your resource-hungry college.

Im sceptical of any and every person who talks of living elsewhere in the solar system;

I'm skeptical about people who bitch about apocalyptic bullshit and "the sky is falling" nonsense when worldwide literacy rates, lifespans and posting armchair philosophy on the internet are all at all time highs.

to me it doesn't seem plausible. And for the most part, I say fuck you to people who suggest living extraterra. Yet another reason to despise humanity: We fuck something up and we think "oopse", and we go on to fuck something else up leaving what we have fucked up without a second thought.

OH NOEZ!!~~@!!~ HUMANITY IS SO DESPISABLE WITH THEIR DELICIOUS LABIAS~!!~~!~
I've done a decent amount to minimize my impact on Mother Earth, here.  If everyone on Earth lived at the level I do, it would take 1.5 Earths to sustain the whole of humanity, according to a highly accurate internet quiz^FNORD you can find yourself.

You know, the more I think about it, the more rediculous the whole "we can go to the moon" arguement is. Think about it:

I have "thought about it".  I have also "read about it" and "done math about it".
No, I will not post any material from my book making solid proposals on the scientific/engineering issues associated with colonizing and terraforming Mars.

what does having a couple of humans land on the moon and leave do for humans? It doesn't do shit, is what it does. Its the whole "we did it just to say we can" arguement again.

Obviously.
Did you have a point, there?
For bonus points, you can not make use of any advances in electronic communication stemming from the "space race against the Ruskies" while posting a reply.

2. No other primates can live on any temperate zone

Fascinating!!

and the only reason we can is because we manufacture artificial furs for ourselves. We're puny and easily destructable, even more than most primates.

Tell me more shit I already know!!!
Deer are so tiny and fragile because they have to eat plants!  They need to get their fucking act together and grow a pair of watermelon sized Chloroplasts.
Mayflies don't need HVAC, so why should you?  Smash the fuck out of your furnace, everyone at the University will thank you for enlightening their dumb, cheese eating asses in the middle of December!




Just remember everyone, a cauliflower is not the boss of you!  Life on Earth is interdependent and interconnected, so fuck those Water Striders!  They're just as abhorrent as your own species!

  <----- Me, during the whole typing of this post

[Starship, take me]

Can an mud wasp be happy?

Maybe.  At least they can't sit around being emo, they've gotta use that energy to fire up a few ganglia and flap those wings.

[LHX]

the development of the word leads to the development of identities

identities lead to egos and separation

we are the only 'life' we know of that does that


'art'
the creation of abstract symbols


if somebody/thing bigger came down that could step on us, it would recognize a difference between man and other animals which are also alive


Maybe they would say something like:
"We ate them all - but these ones here - they acted strangely."



anyway - anybody who endures thru this self-destructive phase will prolly enjoy whatever comes next

space exploration
development of robotic allies
development of new bodies



life takes many forms
we are the only one that we know of that communicate like this (and have that temporary illusion of control - as alluded to in post #1)

[B_M_W]

I should reiterate and specify: We are best, ONLY because we say we are best.

Well, the concept of a "best" species is ridiculous.  Each species fills the niche it adapted to, and will go extinct when conditions can't sustain it.  Many of the species that evolved during the Cambrian explosion are extinct now.  Atmospheric and geologic conditions changed, with no no help from humans.

Yet that is what most humans believe. And the whole rant (as deluded and tired and muddled and rambling as it was, written at 3 in the morning) was trying to get accross that, and pretty much only that, and it failed for the most part.

Then again, I do feel rather strongly that the "salvation by space colonization" arguement is bullshit. It just turned out rather badly in written form.

[Jenne]

You can't blame humanity, though, in the scheme of things. The human being has reached great heights in creation, re-creation and surpassing of things physically limiting. I'm just thinking of moon travel and the like, I guess.

To be proud of such achievments, and expect further increase of them, in escalation, is to be expected.

But you are right--forces of nature will out...though I have to say that studies of nature can differ in conclusionary aspects such that it IS quite difficult at times to know what is natural and what is forced environment. We are, after all, part of the Earth and its environment.

Yet those things are just another adaptation of getting by, no more special and no more useful. Insects have no need of complex cognative abilities, they get by just fine without them. Their forms and adaptations are the dominate ones on the planet, at least in bredth of species joined with environs. If you look at just how much success even just one order has had, say, the Coleoptera (beetles) or Diptera (true flies), it puts the sucesses of primates to shame.

Sure, we're alowed to have some pride and bias to humans because we are human, but that doesn't mean we have the right, nay, the athority or ability to put ourselves at the top of the tree, as the most derived form, as the most advanced.

When you consider this closely, you enter into anthropocentric circular reasoning; What makes us the most advanced? Our intelligence? Beetles get by without that and there are hundreds of thousands of species of them. Our physical bodies? Don't make me laugh; primates living in a temperate zone? lol, the only way our puny bodies get by is by making "fur" to wear out of other materials. Our society? Even more laughable; you don't see the honeybees having the troubles we do in their social and efficient world. Our achievements? Ha, we go to the moon, split the atom, chart the universe, yet we fail continuously to find happiness.

I think it comes down to this: We are best, because we say we are best.

Sorry about the jack, Jenne, just needed to lay that down, it was clogging my colon.

no need to apologize!  *didn't start the thread*

I already know your stance on this, BMW, as I've read your positions on anthropocentrism before.  Doesn't shock or surprise me, and I think I share quite a few views with you.  In fact, I saw someone on a talk show last night speaking about being speciesist, and I believe all humans tend to fall into this category, more or less.

We really, actually, have no choice.  *shrug*  I believe that was built or adapted into our survival mechanism in the end.

[AFK]

I disagree, I think it came out fine.  I for one agree with you as far as the colonization part is concerned.  I believe the space program does have potentials for solving problems here on Earth.  But, I agree that approaching it from the basis of finding a place to escape to because we are screwing up Earth is pretty poor.  

"The Martian Chronicles" FTW

[LHX]

I already know your stance on this, BMW, as I've read your positions on anthropocentrism before.  Doesn't shock or surprise me, and I think I share quite a few views with you.  In fact, I saw someone on a talk show last night speaking about being speciesist, and I believe all humans tend to fall into this category, more or less.

We reall, actually, have no choice.  *shrug*  I believe that was built or adapted into our survival mechanism in the end.

You can temporarily disrupt this 'flow of nature' and send it in a different direction (other than how it was moving before).
When you do this, it gives you a temporary illusion of control.

it wasnt built in - it was a post-manufacture installation

a child doesnt spontaneously develop a exaggerated sense of self-importance

it is a trait that had a beginning and had been perpetuated


and fitting it into the original post - it looks like it is something that bursts (on a personal and societal scale)



thats sort of like a anti-survival mechanism