Who is 'Us'?

[AFK]

Have I mentioned how much I love these forums?


These conversations are awesome.  No troll.

That's what happens when someone employs you for 40 hours a week but only gives you 22 hours worth of work to do.   :-D

[LMNO]

I know exactly what you mean.

Although, for the last few days I have been engaged in a lively debate over Christianity starting here: http://introspectives.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1853&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=540 and going forward.

[LHX]

looking like youre having some fun over at that introspectives forum

has it turned out to be worthwhile? or is it just exercise for you?

[LMNO]

I thought I could bring some people over, but for now it's just exercise, and an opportunity to sharpen my Xtian poking stick against someone who doesn't froth at the mouth about Xtianity.

[LHX]

That seems a bit difficult to gauge.  I'm not saying that anthropomorphizing the deal is necessary, but how can an innate concept be a wolf?

Isn't it the usage of that concept that preys upon the sheep?  (and don't they deserve it?  for what are sheep but prey?  even the shepherd must eat...)

So who implements the concept such that it preys upon the flock?  I submit there has to be an instigator.  Someone in control.  I don't see how apartheid, low voter turnout and bankruptcy are wolves.  (sorry!)

i guess the wolf is whatever it is that makes things move

things that are moving and find themself in the same place are sheep



i guess wolves travelling in packs are sheeps


fuck this

i think we are developing a trend / approach that is able to dismantle any metaphor and render it unusable


the envelope keeps getting pushed (o snap another metaphor)

[LMNO]

Sometimes I worry we're becoming Deconstructionists.

[LHX]

Sometimes I worry we're becoming Deconstructionists.

either that or we are absorbing deconstructionism and turning it into something else

[P3nT4gR4m]

I know exactly what you mean.

Although, for the last few days I have been engaged in a lively debate over Christianity starting here: http://introspectives.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1853&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=540 and going forward.

Why does big will delete all his posts? I'm finding some of it hard to follow and it's all his fault!

[LMNO]

Beats me.  Register, and ask him yourself.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I have enough on my plate following this place without joining any more forums thanks.

Also I gave up arguing with x-ists years ago. There's no way to gain a foothold with someone who is so devoid of rationality and logic that they believe shit like that. You'd have more success trying to talk a housebrick into sucking your cock.

Blasphemy, mockery and ridicule is the only response to christianity that I gain anything from.

[LMNO]

I dunno, I've been racking up a few points:

1.  God is not omnipotent
2.  God made a mistake w/ Garden of Eden.
3.  Adam & Eve were innocent when God punished them.
4.  Isaiah 14 was not about Satan, but about the King of Babylon.

There's more, but I keep scoring points, so I'll keep going.  As soon as I get "Because God says so, that's why" is when I'll claim ultimate victory and stop.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I dunno, I've been racking up a few points:

1.  God is not omnipotent
2.  God made a mistake w/ Garden of Eden.
3.  Adam & Eve were innocent when God punished them.
4.  Isaiah 14 was not about Satan, but about the King of Babylon.

There's more, but I keep scoring points, so I'll keep going.  As soon as I get "Because God says so, that's why" is when I'll claim ultimate victory and stop.

Gotchya. It's the Galaxians challenge then - you can't win but you can beat your old highscore. Circular logic annoys me way too much to deal with faithfools on that kinda level "The bible must be true, it says in the bible...." Maybe this is my challenge - to see how far I can get into the discussion before I absolutely have to go outside and shoot a puppy.

[Jenne]

That seems a bit difficult to gauge.  I'm not saying that anthropomorphizing the deal is necessary, but how can an innate concept be a wolf?

Because it is something that causes the sheep to flock.  Safety in numbers. 
Honestly it's probably an imperfect metaphor, but I do think it is true that it is virtually impossible, short of being stranded on a deserted island, to not be a part of some type of flock. 

Isn't it the usage of that concept that preys upon the sheep?  (and don't they deserve it?  for what are sheep but prey?  even the shepherd must eat...)

I suppose I didn't take into account that the shepherd eventually will eat the sheep.  Again, another example of why this metaphor is possibly not the best.  Although, maybe that can take into account something in society that is seemingly good and safe but that will eventually turn on the sheep.  I don't know, I think I need to ponder this more. 

So who implements the concept such that it preys upon the flock?  I submit there has to be an instigator.  Someone in control.  I don't see how apartheid, low voter turnout and bankruptcy are wolves.  (sorry!)

The Machine?  The Con?  The System? 
again, probably needs further reflection on my part. 

Sorry to give you brain hurt.  First Silly's brain fart, now this.

What I meant (and again, apologies to perhaps excess for LHX in deconstructionism) to do is to point out that even when you are codifying what it is that is negative or positive about bringing the "flock" together, you have to consider that it's from a particular perspective, and not necessarily one you are aware of using.

So, when pointing out or judging who is the shepherd, who is the wolf, who are sheep in wolves' clothing, vice versa...where are you coming from?  Which flock do you belong to that made this determination?

As for the roles of wolves and shepherds...the sheep belong to the shepherd, nay?  So, he cares for them because they are his, not his pets, but his to eat, shear and use.  He births them, puts them to death.  So, his role is greater and maybe not as interchangeable as that of the wolf.

What is the wolf there to do?  To take for himself, damn the consequences.  He's alone, he has a belly that needs feeding.  He is born to do this.  The sheep are his prey, so he does what he does naturally.  And we all know how brutal  nature is.

So, I guess I'm not just trying to define things but also see how far this meme will go in application, esp when considering the true role of the players.  Not their iconic actions...

[LHX]

i dont think there is excess in deconstructing

the more you dismantle, the better you understand the components

the better you understand the components, the better you can build

[LMNO]

As long as we keep the original intent in sight, and don't lose ourselves amognst the pieces.