Rev Roger, Flyer #5

[AFK]

Libertarians = Dope Smoking Republicans.  

They were too high in Government class to pay attention during the Tradgedy of the Commons lecture.  And they obviously have way too much faith in Humanity to not fuck itself over.

[B_M_W]

Libertarians = Dope Smoking Republicans.  

They were too high in Government class to pay attention during the Tradgedy of the Commons lecture.  And they obviously have way too much faith in Humanity to not fuck itself over.

Ah, the Tragety of the Commons, the reason why anarchists and libertarians are full of shit.

RWHN knows the way I go.  

[Prickly]

a: What do you think upholds all the corporations? If the government wasn't making things harder for competing small businesses, corporations would have much more of a hold on people. I've seen quite a few examples of monopolies created by government regulation driving out the competition (too lazy to go look them up right now sorry), and major corporations regularly lobby for tighter restrictions on themselves if they know they can handle the regulations better than the competition. Getting rid of regulations passed with the intent of restricting competition would remove quite a bit of the power corporations have.

b: I probably understand the tragedy of the commons better than the rest of you. The tragedy of the commons is why nationalized health care costs more for less of an effect than privatized health care: as long as it's free, people will use as much of it as they can get, so there isn't as much room for people who actually need it. The majority of government-provided services work this way, perhaps you could post an example of how privatization would cause a tragedy of the commons before I completely dismiss your argument?

c: You all act like roads, schools, and parks can only be created by governments and have never, ever in history existed without a government having created them. I can think of a few examples of each being created by private organizations in the US. And I'm kinda surprised that you all seem to be big fans of public schooling, I'd think more people here would be disillusioned and have realized that the public schools are more of indoctrination centers than learning centers. I've learned a hell of a lot, very little of it due to the 12 years I spent in public school.

However, most Libertarians couldn't care less about roads and schools with issues like illegal wiretapping, the war on some drugs, gay marriage bans in many states, etc. I'd easily settle for making public schools give more individualized educational opportunities rather than getting rid of them, and don't care if the roads ever get privatized. There's the 5% or so of us who are extremists that talk loudly, and our opponents find the most extreme things they say and spread them around rather than listening to the more moderate members.

[vexaph0d]

The libertarian platform also includes doing away with all licensure for all professions... so, any wacko with a stethoscope can be a bonafide surgeon.  Asking for disaster if you ask me.  No more qualifications for anything.

I think there are too many hoops to jump through for most things in our beaurocratic society.  But some things need standards to be enforced.  Public schools need to be forced not to teach religion.  Corporations need to be forced not to escort their "employees" to work every day under the guidance of armed escort.  Because they would if they could.  And we all know it.

Also, libertarians don't shower very often, and that makes me sad.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

a: What do you think upholds all the corporations? If the government wasn't making things harder for competing small businesses, corporations would have much more of a hold on people.

What government?

[AFK]

b) So who takes care of that which is not privatized?  (e.g. Public Lands) Sure, the private land owners have an interest in managing their lands effectively so they don't completely run out of trees to harvest and go bankrupt.  But, someone needs to manage the public lands so they can persist in a viable fashion for the public to enjoy and utilize.  An organized entity must perform this or else it goes to hell.  

c) There are good public schools, roads, etc. and there are bad ones.  I went to a good public school with good teachers.  But, I also grew up in rural Maine where the teachers come from the community and have a vested interest in furthering their community.  Have you ever driven down a road owned by a paper company in Northern Maine?  Trust me, my Blazer much prefers the nice, paved roads of U.S. Route 1.  

Additionally, parents have a big impact on how a child does in school whether it is public or private.  If parents can foster a sense of wonder and curiousity in a young child as he or she grows, the child will already be armed with 75% of what they need to get a good education.  A kid that goes into school not giving a shit about anything is not going to learn anything whether they are in public or private school.

[B_M_W]

Prickly, have you even HEARD OF the Tragety of the commons before? The historical fact is thus: When everyone uses a common resource (i.e. animal, plant, mineral, etc) and no entity MANAGES the USE of that resource, that resource WILL be depleted in quality and/or quantity.

IT IS FACT.

BMW,

A Natural Resource manager in the making. Literally.

[Prickly]

Prickly, have you even HEARD OF the Tragety of the commons before? The historical fact is thus: When everyone uses a common resource (i.e. animal, plant, mineral, etc) and no entity MANAGES the USE of that resource, that resource WILL be depleted in quality and/or quantity.

IT IS FACT.

BMW,

A Natural Resource manager in the making. Literally.

Yes.

Which is why it should be privately owned.

Take endangered species. The few, rare cases of an endangered species having been brought back from near extinction has been because of the efforts of private organizations. Bison were nearly extinct (down to a few thousand) in the early 1900s; the American Bison Association raised and breeded them and there are currently a few hundred thousand more than there were a century ago.

Lumbering still happens in national forests, and is usually pretty devastating, but as long as any of you want to use paper or lumber for anything we can't just stop cutting down trees. A company harvesting on government-owned forests is going to treat them like shit because they don't know if they'll still be allowed to cut trees there next year. If they own the land, they'll want to know that there are still trees to cut down 20 years later and so plant more and treat the land better.

When the government manages it, whoever is allowed to use it will treat it just as badly as if it were a public resource, even if there are some restrictions. Generally the corporate lobbyists are able to make sure that the only restrictions effectively make them a monopoly, which admittedly leads to a slightly tighter supply.

<- got As in all his econ classes, don't step.

What government?

We're libertarians, not anarchists. Although plenty of anarchists do vote Lib. Then again, plenty are Discordians. Maybe all the Libertarian candidates in your area are extremists, I admit some of the local candidates here I wouldn't want to see in office (although I fell that way about almost ever R & D), but the moderate Libs aren't that bad.

Wait, wait, if I say that you won't get pissed and you won't write more pamphlets.

Alright Roger, you government loving nazi pig, if you love your damn government why don't you marry it? It's already trying to get into your bedroom you know. Trying to cover up its mistakes, pretend it actually does things well, claim that people actually obey the law and that the laws are actually enforced without someone paying people to enforce it the way they want it enforced. Can't you see what it's doing to you? I know you didn't fall down the stairs 3 times last week. You're not that clumsy. Okay, so really you are pretty stupid and that's not all that unbelievable.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Prickly, have you even HEARD OF the Tragety of the commons before? The historical fact is thus: When everyone uses a common resource (i.e. animal, plant, mineral, etc) and no entity MANAGES the USE of that resource, that resource WILL be depleted in quality and/or quantity.

IT IS FACT.

BMW,

A Natural Resource manager in the making. Literally.

Yes.

Which is why it should be privately owned.

Holy shit.

Let me give YOU a couple of examples:

1.  Mining in Pennsylvania, prior to 1968 (especially between 1800 & 1910).  Toxic slag heaps and barren lands, anyone?

2.  The Easter Island self-genocide.  Yep.  Them trees just grew themselves, right?

Short term profit/gain > Common sense & forethought, every time.

Plenty more examples where those came from.

<- got As in all his econ classes, don't step.

You got As in witchdoctory?  Good for you.  Nobody has taken econ seriously since the Laffer Curve.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What government?

We're libertarians, not anarchists. Although plenty of anarchists do vote Lib. Then again, plenty are Discordians. Maybe all the Libertarian candidates in your area are extremists,

Alright Roger, you government loving nazi pig, if you love your damn government why don't you marry it? It's already trying to get into your bedroom you know. Trying to cover up its mistakes, pretend it actually does things well, claim that people actually obey the law and that the laws are actually enforced without someone paying people to enforce it the way they want it enforced. Can't you see what it's doing to you? I know you didn't fall down the stairs 3 times last week. You're not that clumsy.

Okay, so really you are pretty stupid and that's not all that unbelievable.

1.  Read for context.  There IS no "Government"...just Punch and Judy dolls set up for the rubes to throw rotten fruit at.  You're ALREADY living in your Libertarian paradise, and the fun is just beginning.  Who do you think pays for politicians to get elected?  You?    Sorry chump, it's people like Exxon, Halliburton, and GE...and do you think the politicians are going to fuck up the gravy train?  Not likely.  They'll do whatever they are told.  You've just traded off two parties of fuckwits for one party of fuckwits that aren't even good at the game.  

2.  That's a hoot.  Go to the LP website.  Those fucktards have no love for the constitution, and hate simple things like public roads (if you think roads should be privatized, I invite you to drive on the Illinois tollroad sometime - which is now privatized.  I suggest you drive a tank).

3.  See #1:  There is no "government".  Just the stooges of the corporations you libertarians worship.

4.    I love when Libertarians freak out.  Do it some more.

[Michal]

::sits back, watches, munches popcorn::

[The Good Reverend Roger]

::sits back, watches, munches popcorn::

Libertarians are my medicine.

They're just a different kind of sucker.

[Michal]

::giggles, continues watching and munching::

[B_M_W]

Yes.

Which is why it should be privately owned.

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!11!!11

BMW,

Knows what Roger means when he says he feels like laughing until screaming.

[B_M_W]

Prickly, have you even HEARD OF the Tragety of the commons before? The historical fact is thus: When everyone uses a common resource (i.e. animal, plant, mineral, etc) and no entity MANAGES the USE of that resource, that resource WILL be depleted in quality and/or quantity.

IT IS FACT.

BMW,

A Natural Resource manager in the making. Literally.

Yes.

Which is why it should be privately owned.

Holy shit.

Let me give YOU a couple of examples:

1.  Mining in Pennsylvania, prior to 1968 (especially between 1800 & 1910).  Toxic slag heaps and barren lands, anyone?

2.  The Easter Island self-genocide.  Yep.  Them trees just grew themselves, right?

Short term profit/gain > Common sense & forethought, every time.

Plenty more examples where those came from.

<- got As in all his econ classes, don't step.

You got As in witchdoctory?  Good for you.  Nobody has taken econ seriously since the Laffer Curve.

1. Rogers got some good ones here. And Ive got about a thousand more. Which division do you want me to start? Fisheries? Waters? Wildlife? Forestry? Soils? Ive got more than enough to fill a whole forum with companies who overexploited resources because there was NO ENTITY IN MANAGMENT. And don't pull that "the companies were managing" crap. Management /=explotation tactics, management is what you DON'T do, and its not managing the resourse, its managing the PEOPLE who USE the resource.

2. Economists are living a lie. Heard of Infinite Growth? Thats what they use as their standard. But any SANE person knows that NOTHING grows infinitely. Period.

You really want to get me started? Bring it on.