Life span.

[Doktor Howl]

I think it's still pain. I mean it feels like pain. But it is pleasurable.
So..both?

That's masochism for you. I like physical pain to.

I think I programmed myself to find sensing things in general to be pleasurable. Probably as a defense mechanism.

Doctor howl, I think perhaps you are typecasting and being a little unimaginative. That's just my opinion though.

Have a heart attack and get back to me on that, lightweight.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

This is a dumb derail that distracts from the fact that Net thinks depression is beneficial.

[Doktor Howl]

This is a dumb derail that distracts from the fact that Net thinks depression is beneficial.

Not derailed.  Still kind of laughing about that.

I AM A ROCK
I AM AN ISLAND

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

This is a dumb derail that distracts from the fact that Net thinks depression is beneficial.

I think some depression does have beneficial aspects that outweigh the negatives, and sometimes the negatives outweigh the positives.

I've experienced both and read reliable sources that confirm it.

Is it your position that all depressive moods confer no benefits to the depressed person?

Or do you think there may be benefits to depressive moods, but they are always outweighed by negative effects of depression?

[Thurnez Isa]

I actually should comment on this I think... but will do so after the fun ends in other chat... and i decide if i wanna share some experiences here

[Nast]

For me, depression and anxiety is a complete waste of time. It's like a big comfy bed that I want to lay down in and pull the covers over my head and just wait until whatever challenge life throws at me passes by. And that's very dangerous.

The thing is, it's so easy to get depressed. And when I'm depressed, it's so easy to become an unmotivated sluggard. That's not useful at all. Being all melancholy and pensive is one thing, but being in a slump is another.

[Thurnez Isa]

I remember back in music one of the things which would help via performance is to get yourself in a downer of a mood, even for more upbeat pieces. It would help with the flow, voicing and tone, and it was something discussed quite openingly. One of the problems some would have (including myself) would be coming back from that. One of the reasons a lot of performers you just wouldn't want to talk to after their performance. Both coming down from a high and coming up from a downer mood. There is a correlation I never quite understood until recently. Personally I compose only when I'm feeling like total garbage. But there are others I know that could only compose when they're feeling relaxed and good.
So short answer.. depends on the person. There's an obvious link between creative out letting and mood and I think that's what Net was getting at.
Does it make it good or bad, well that again depends on the person. If your one that has to go into a mood that is generally negative and you have a hard time coming back then it would probably be a bad thing. Again depends on the individual. Can't really paint it with one brush, like this is how people generally be creative.

[Doktor Howl]

AND A ROCK FEELS NO PAIN
AND AN ISLAND NEVER CRIES

[Nast]

AND A ROCK FEELS NO PAIN
AND AN ISLAND NEVER CRIES

FFS, I HAD TO READ THOSE AWFUL LYRICS IN SOPHOMORE ENGLISH, I'M NOT PREPARED TO DO IT AGAIN.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

I think some depression does have beneficial aspects that outweigh the negatives,

For you.

and sometimes the negatives outweigh the positives.

For you.

I've experienced both and read reliable sources that confirm it.

It's nice that you've found sources to support your anecdotal evidence.  I haven't had the chance to read all of them but one at least had far more to do about good parenting and genetics on the population level than the benefits of depression.

Is it your position that all depressive moods confer no benefits to the depressed person?

Being in a depressive mood is not the same as being a depressed person.

Or do you think there may be benefits to depressive moods, but they are always outweighed by negative effects of depression?

There might be.  For you.  However, your anecdotal evidence belies everything I've ever experienced and have had related to me by other depressed people.  And since most people don't seem to benefit at all from depression, giving them "reliable sources" that seem to suggest they shouldn't be fighting against it, when depression is the siren call to maintaining the status quo and never making any effort, is in my opinion a terrible idea.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I've experienced both and read reliable sources that confirm it.

It's nice that you've found sources to support your anecdotal evidence.  I haven't had the chance to read all of them but one at least had far more to do about good parenting and genetics on the population level than the benefits of depression.

Normally, I'd mock a poster for rejecting something without reading it. But I like you, Badge, and from your tenor in this thread it sounds like you have or recently have had some serious depression, so I'll continue to cut you some slack.

Or do you think there may be benefits to depressive moods, but they are always outweighed by negative effects of depression?

There might be.  For you.  However, your anecdotal evidence belies everything I've ever experienced and have had related to me by other depressed people.  And since most people don't seem to benefit at all from depression, giving them "reliable sources" that seem to suggest they shouldn't be fighting against it, when depression is the siren call to maintaining the status quo and never making any effort, is in my opinion a terrible idea.

It's interesting that you're criticizing my experience for being anecdotal by using anecdotal evidence.

I'm not saying you should stop fighting your depression in any way that makes sense to you.

If chanting new age mantras while you shove Kali figurines made of Zoloft up your ass makes you feel whole again, then more power to you.

I'm just saying, hey, here's a thoroughly iconoclastic theory that makes a lot of sense to me; consider using it to live the hell out of your depression.

[Hoser McRhizzy]

De-lurking to note that everyone should try this

chanting new age mantras while you shove Kali figurines made of Zoloft up your ass

at least once. 

And now I have a goal in life.

(still enjoying this series, Kai, and looking forward to the next)

[Triple Zero]

Yeah, the most important thing I got from the concept of the BIP is that it isn't the materials of your existence but what you do with them that makes your life worth living.  If you have your choices limited to what kind of dirt you sleep on, you can either wallow in filth or make sculptures out of mud.

Or to change your situation, if possible, by SEEING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

If God gives you lemons, get a new God.

Exactly.  And depression is like blinders to the possibility of a better existence.

Um, I gotta make an addition to that.

Some depression is like blinders to the possibility of a better existence. Your depression might have been like that.

It totally can be like that.

But that's really a gross generalization I can't just let slide like that. I've been depressed too, and maybe only a few months in total were like that. But MOST of the time, the years, I've been battling and growing and learning and working and striving towards that possibility of a better existence. And I felt like shit and it was hard. But I have vowed to myself to NEVER GIVE UP.

Now you can wonder whether this is/was an optimal way of going about it, I don't know, everybody to their own right?

But I sure as hell did not have any "blinders to a better existence" during that time. If anything, my vision was wide open, looking, reaching out, trying all posibilities to see what might work and have a positive effect. It might not have been fun, but to call it "blinders" is really really selling it short. In fact, I am damn proud of that time when looking back, hung in there and got to where I am now (whereever the fuck that may be) and did not give up. I might have been miserable a good deal of that time, but in a way, I can honestly say that I did my damn best at living life to the fullest, given the cirumstances, the tools and the knowledge I had then and there.

So, yeah. Perhaps a depression is what you make of it. If it makes you feel directionless, all wrapped up in yourself and inert, that's probably bad and you simply need to get out (fortunately if that "brain works in higher gear when depressed" stuff is true, solving the inertness might be easier than it otherwise would have been). But sometimes it's also like rocket fuel burning in your ass: It might make you feel miserable, but you're moving pretty quickly

[Triple Zero]

http://depression.about.com/cs/diagnosis/a/mdd.htm

This disorder is characterized by the presence of the majority of these symptoms:

• Depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). (In children and adolescents, this may be characterized as an irritable mood.)
  
• Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day
  
• Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5 of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day.
  
• Insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day
  
• Psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day
  
• Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
  
• Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt nearly every day
  Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day
  
• Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide.
  

Yes, but there is a whole list of symptoms there. And you can't say the only "proper" depression is when you experience exactly those few you highlighted, nearly all the time.

Though that really sucks if you went through that Badge, and I mean that completely.

But I also mean it when I say it's not the same for everyone. You especially can't generalize this:

Double bollocks, all depression does is sap away all energy.  Sadness, yes.  Anger, yes.  Pain, yes.  But depression is the absence of any emotion, a deadening of the brain, a lifeless gray cell that cuts a person off from life.  Depression is never going to be "jet fuel" because all it does is allow someone to get through the day, one day at a time.  You're full of shit.

Absence of any emotion? Yes I KNOW it can be like that. And that's terrible. But it wasn't dead like that for me. It wasn't inert, it was very in fact at times very turbulent and I was fighting every day. Sure it knocked me back on my ass nearly every day too, it sapped away energy every day, it was hard and indeed sometimes all I could do was get through the day, one day at a time. But through my tears and what not I would not let down and fought.

So apparently the complete inertness bit is optional.

And please, I am not saying it is wrong if you experienced it differently. If you say you couldn't, then that is how it was. Maybe you got it worse than I did, I don't know. I do know that mental illnesses like this aren't very clear-cut black/white objective classifications, but vary subjectively from person to person.

I could go on about it, but the bottom line is that it's simply not the same experience for everyone.

Just like your list of symptoms names both "insomnia" and "hypersomnia". You can have one, you can have the other, you can alternate, or you could even hardly have either.

So, wait.  Net's position is that depression fills you with energy?

What?   

YES THATS JUST HI LA RI OUS ISNT IT????

What is actually funny, is how I wrote my previous post before reading Net's "Jet Fuel" remark. I said rocket fuel. Though Net forgot to mention the exhaust is in your ass and it hurts.

I'm not saying it fills you with energy. That's ridiculous. On the whole I had only a fraction of the energy I have these days (which is also not a lot). Still, it burns pretty bright in some places.

However, Net is describing something quite similar to what I experienced. Something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Yet something that can also not be described as "wasted years". Something I am proud of the way I handled and got out of. Something that might actually be described as living life to the fullest, given the little I had at that moment, not materially but in my head, and with the little amount of energy. So maybe I was lucky that I wasn't completely emotionally paralyzed all the time. But at times that emotional will-power was the only thing I had: I will get through this, I will find a way out, I will get up again, I will just try again, et cetera.

Just like that list of symptoms lists suicide. I never considered it. Well, the thought might have surfaced (like anyone, right?), but it always immediately seemed patently ridiculous. There is so much to live for! And certainly, this must be one of the more shittier parts, right, so it can only get better.

You know, in that aspect, we come full-circle back to Kai's OP.

What pulled me through was the fascination with life. I wanted (and still want) to see it all, live as long as possible. You see, you can also turn those numbers in Kai's OP around. Realize it's quite a lot of days in fact. That there is a lot of time left for the rest of your life, all those bright days after this downtime, and I wanted to get there, really bad.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

Okay, we can all agree that all this shit is subjective.