Female sexual dysfunction

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There is also the question of whether sex without female arousal is rape, which has certainly been proposed many times.

Um.  I thought that was dictated by the consent or non-consent of the female, not biology.

I didn't say I was proposing it; I was just throwing it out there as something that has been proposed. An incendiary, if you will. I think that most reasonable people will agree that consent is where the key lies, not arousal. But that's still an extant notion, agree or disagree.

I have to say that I agree that men and women are different, but I also believe that they are far more similar than they are different, both mentally and physically. That's why we can understand each other and be friends.

I also want to make clear that I'm not saying that society doesn't punish men and women in different ways for sexual dysfunction, and I'm also not saying that one is worse than the other. Nor am I saying that one ISN'T worse than the other. Just for the record, the context in which the original conversation occurred was of a woman friend asking if she should be afraid of going on antidepressants for fear of losing her sexual response. As has happened in several such conversations I've been in, a man jumped in saying, essentially, that it's no big deal for women... already counterindicated by the fact that she was having that fear in the first place. It IS a big deal for women. He was intensely vehement about it. It may be a big deal in different ways, but I think that it's interesting how much it gets downplayed and how little it's studied. The difficulty men experience with it is in no way negated by the difficulty women experience with it, though it may be different in many ways, so I find it interesting how often people will become extremely defensive and insistent that it is in no way comparable.

There are some curious value judgements against women with sexual dysfunction; an impotent man is viewed as having had something awful forced on him by illness or medicine, whereas for a woman terms like "frigid bitch" and "ice queen" are social norms. There are also jokes, and plenty of them, about dry or loose vaginas. Also, all but the most wilfully imperceptive man can tell when a woman is not aroused... the difference between an aroused clitoris and vagina is miles and miles. How can any man fail to notice a soft clit? I mean, really. Take the man out of the equation entirely, and you may have a frustrated masturbator or a depressed lesbian partner. A lover who cannot be aroused, or who cannot reach climax, is hard on both partners.

I really appreciated Hawk's input in this, as a man who is very candid about his own experiences with his wife's and his own sexual dysfunction. Thank you, Hawk!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, the Scots are far easier on the ear than the Welsh. And at least the Scots have a proper hard plant as a National symbol, and not a poncy yellow flower. The Scots are good neighbours. But you can tell how things are with the Welsh when you drive over the Severn Bridge. There is no charge for going into Wales, (quite frankly, no-one would pay it if there was) but there is a charge to get out again. Which people (even Welsh people) are happy to pay.

Hey man. My Welsh brethren know what they're doing. Talk about life giving you lemons...

[BadBeast]

. Take the man out of the equation entirely, and you may have a frustrated masturbator or a depressed lesbian partner. A lover who cannot be aroused, or who cannot reach climax, is hard on both partners.

[/quote]

Couldn't help but notice the puerile comedic value of saying "hard on" in a post about sexual dysfunction!
(Even as I post this, a part of me is cringing in horrified mute self loathing)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

 

[BadBeast]

 I really must offer my most heartfelt apologies for my "evil twin" comment. There is no worthy excuse I can offer for being so horribly crass, save that It is my birthday today, and I tend to indulge my inner fuckwit on birthdays. Once again, my apologies for any offence caused.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Naw man, it's OK. That was the horrormirth face.

[LMNO]

Just for the record, the context in which the original conversation occurred was of a woman friend asking if she should be afraid of going on antidepressants for fear of losing her sexual response. As has happened in several such conversations I've been in, a man jumped in saying, essentially, that it's no big deal for women... already counterindicated by the fact that she was having that fear in the first place. It IS a big deal for women. He was intensely vehement about it.

Oh... You were talking to a knuckle-dragging moron.  That explains a lot. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Just for the record, the context in which the original conversation occurred was of a woman friend asking if she should be afraid of going on antidepressants for fear of losing her sexual response. As has happened in several such conversations I've been in, a man jumped in saying, essentially, that it's no big deal for women... already counterindicated by the fact that she was having that fear in the first place. It IS a big deal for women. He was intensely vehement about it.

Oh... You were talking to a knuckle-dragging moron.  That explains a lot.  

Funny thing is, usually he's not. The subject just sometimes elicits that reaction in otherwise perfectly reasonable, intelligent, rational people. Sort of like the guys who have (in past discussions) argued that women can't experience sexual performance anxiety; and in all cases, the argument has been that the visual cue is so powerfully significant that it removes male sexual dysfunction into a vastly different category.

[LMNO]

Sometimes I think that people who lack adequate personal sexual experience should not be allowed to talk about stuff like this.

"women can't experience sexual performance anxiety"?  More like, "you haven't been bothering to pay much attention, have you?"

[Kai]

I wouldn't want to have sex with a woman who wasn't both interested and enjoying it. If she can't get aroused it would be the same for me as if I was with a guy who couldn't get stiff.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The more research that is done on difference between sexes, the more it appears that our experiences are very different.

1. Some research indicates that men are far less spatially challenged than women. Due, not to stereotypes, but actual brain chemistry. The current theory is that men out hunting needed to find their way back home and passed on the good directional genes to their sons. One study of four year old's noted a 4:1 difference between boys that could process 3 dimensions to girls.

2. Some research indicates that women use more of their brain for smells and communication (by a large percent).

3. Some research indicates that the physical makeup of the male body has up to 10% more water than females.

4. Apparently women see colors better than men, since being able to process red is defined by the X chromosome.  

(saw it on cracked.com so it must be true!)

In the end, I think science will eventually find that males and females are VERY different... not one better or worse... just very different.  Trying to equate physical or psychological issues between the sexes seems like an exercise in futility to me. Hell, trying to equate one man's ED with another man's ED is probably not gonna work, because so much of what we 'feel' depends on our early childhood imprints. I agree with the post that siad this would make good flame fodder, but not much beyond that. In fact, I think its horrific that people with dysfunctions of any kind feel that they have to compare their problems with other people's to somehow legitimize their issues.

We have so many possible problems in our lives, either physical, psychological or environmental... trying to compete seems absurd to me.

[Triple Zero]

There is also the question of whether sex without female arousal is rape, which has certainly been proposed many times.

Um.  I thought that was dictated by the consent or non-consent of the female, not biology.

I sure hope so. Even though I usually quit when it becomes apparent, because when it's no fun for her, it's no fun for me either.

[Triple Zero]

I always found it pretty amazing that people denied female orgasm, especially women. I guess it was just weeded out of women. Now we men-folk have to work extra-hard to undo thousands of years of prudery.
That or thousands of years of inflated egos have left us lacking in the bedroom, and we have had to quickly learn to compensate by being, you know, emotionally intelligent.

Um dude, I've never had to work extra hard.

Just saying.

Good for you

I really wonder though, if it depends on the skill of the man, or the woman in question. From what I heard from women, especially the ones that had (some) trouble achieving orgasm, it requires a great deal of concentration, no matter how hard the man tries.

Another thing that's different, I suppose. A skilled woman can make a man come, even if he doesn't desire to, but the other way around, not so much. As far as I have found, that is. Heavily depending on the woman in question.

Hm makes me think, I don't have experience with men, let alone multiple, so maybe the fact that a skilled woman can make me come, regardless of whether I want to or not (unsure if that ever happened, btw), maybe doesn't hold for all men either.

[Triple Zero]

Partly inspired by the long post Nigel made on the previous page, with which I agree wholeheartedly, I wonder, considering my two previous posts,

Maybe a big part of the problem here is sample size? I mean, a heterosexual man generally doesn't get to "sample" much about the male orgasm, except for his own. For the female orgasm, it depends, but may not be a very big sample either. And of course this holds vice versa for the heterosexual female and her perception of orgasms.

Possibly that (actively) bisexual people would be the best authority on these matters.

[Kai]

Partly inspired by the long post Nigel made on the previous page, with which I agree wholeheartedly, I wonder, considering my two previous posts,

Maybe a big part of the problem here is sample size? I mean, a heterosexual man generally doesn't get to "sample" much about the male orgasm, except for his own. For the female orgasm, it depends, but may not be a very big sample either. And of course this holds vice versa for the heterosexual female and her perception of orgasms.

Possibly that (actively) bisexual people would be the best authority on these matters.

Speaking as an actively bisexual person, the outward appearance is very different but the necessity of arousal is the same.