Author Topic: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System  (Read 87751 times)

xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #645 on: December 12, 2016, 07:43:06 pm »
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slavery-constitution/

This is some solid gold butthurt. Finding one mention of slavery in relation to the Electoral College and ignoring all the other reasons given for it and why almost everyone agreed with it, including ones who opposed Slavery like John Adams and Northerners.

Its also worth noting that the people who are so opposed to the Electoral College are currently doing so for the exact reason the founders thought we needed it. So population dense urban areas can bully flyover states into free trade agreements and immigration policies that are good for them(the urban areas) and bad  for everyone else. Of course, thats totally, not what this is about. Youre just moral upright warriors of truth and justice fighting against an evil monster supported by ignorant hateful rednecks, and its just a coincidence that youd rather someone who wants completely free trade was in office instead of the person who is promising to kill the TPP.


Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #646 on: December 12, 2016, 11:21:52 pm »
The TPP isn't about free trade, IIRC it mandates sterner intellectual property laws in some places. That's like the opposite of free trade.

but as much as I oppose IP it's not worth putting someone in charge who's likely to bankrupt the country like everything else he's been chief executive of.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 11:26:11 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #647 on: December 12, 2016, 11:27:30 pm »
Its also worth noting that the people who are so opposed to the Electoral College are currently doing so for the exact reason the founders thought we needed it. So population dense urban areas can bully flyover states into free trade agreements and immigration policies that are good for them(the urban areas) and bad  for everyone else.

Why should their vote count any more than mine!?
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

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xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #648 on: December 12, 2016, 11:48:27 pm »
The TPP isn't about free trade, IIRC

YDNRC

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32498715

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpLQzeCoNnA


Why should their vote count any more than mine!?

Because otherwise their vote would not count at all, and depending on where you currently live yours could not count at all either.

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #649 on: December 13, 2016, 05:33:40 pm »
You mean it would depend on what you believe, not where you live. Why would anything in the presidential election still be done by region without the electoral college?
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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

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xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #650 on: December 13, 2016, 05:38:54 pm »
You mean it would depend on what you believe, not where you live. Why would anything in the presidential election still be done by region without the electoral college?

You dont understand the population disparity between states. It would literally be Texas, Florida, New York and California deciding every election with 90% of our landmass, each individual states with their own economies and interests, having no say in anything. Again, this election is a perfect example of why we need it. The dense urban areas trying to force free trade agreements on the rest of the country which doesnt want it so they can profit at their expense.

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #651 on: December 13, 2016, 05:44:25 pm »
You mean it would depend on what you believe, not where you live. Why would anything in the presidential election still be done by region without the electoral college?

You dont understand the population disparity between states. It would literally be Texas, Florida, New York and California deciding every election with 90% of our landmass, each individual states with their own economies and interests, having no say in anything. Again, this election is a perfect example of why we need it. The dense urban areas trying to force free trade agreements on the rest of the country which doesnt want it so they can profit at their expense.

I get that the liberals and conservatives are in different geographic areas, what I don't get is why this is in any way relevant
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xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #652 on: December 13, 2016, 05:49:05 pm »
You mean it would depend on what you believe, not where you live. Why would anything in the presidential election still be done by region without the electoral college?

You dont understand the population disparity between states. It would literally be Texas, Florida, New York and California deciding every election with 90% of our landmass, each individual states with their own economies and interests, having no say in anything. Again, this election is a perfect example of why we need it. The dense urban areas trying to force free trade agreements on the rest of the country which doesnt want it so they can profit at their expense.

I get that the liberals and conservatives are in different geographic areas, what I don't get is why this is in any way relevant

Hold on

Two things:

1) Would this reform extend to the senate as well? Because its the same principle and few people ever bitch about it.

2) This would have been no guarantee against a Trump victory this year and if it ever happens would not guarantee a lack of future victories. As he himself explained, he built his campaign around scoring electoral votes because thats what it takes to win. If the election was based on the popular vote he would have altered his strategy for that.

Also, think about this for a moment. California and New York being the big contendors seems nice, but the other two heavy weights would be Texas and Florida. I know you think Trump is bad, but do you really really want every Republican candidate from this point on basing his platform on winning the Texan vote out of necessity?

   Which brings us to the point of the EC. America isnt a homogeneous nation, it has a lot of different interests and cultures. Without the EC (and the Senate) America would be run by Texas, Florida, New York and California with the rest of us all just along for the ride. Do you honestly want this? Just because Clinton won in some alternate reality what if fanfiction where Article II vanished on November 7th?

One point I want to drive home here is that Trump based his strategy on winning swing states, going for electoral votes. In a popular vote he would have likely used a different strategy and very well could have won on swinging Florida R and Texas's given R votes.

Again, why do you want to destroy an institution that protects weaker states from stronger ones because in some hypothetical scenario where Trump went for electoral votes but the election was really decided on the popular  vote Hillary wins?

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #653 on: December 13, 2016, 11:18:41 pm »
You talk as if the states were seperate countries rather than arbitrary administrative divisions. That hasn't been the case for over 221 years. And for 36 of the states it was never the case anyway.

I mean, maybe if they were separated by some vast distance it would be different, but it's not like we have any regions that are more than half a day's travel away from each other (give or take an hour or two)

EDIT:
Not counting embassies. I suppose travel between some of the embassies could be longer than maine to hawaii.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 11:44:35 pm by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

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xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #654 on: December 14, 2016, 12:45:32 am »
You talk as if the states were seperate countries rather than arbitrary administrative divisions. That hasn't been the case for over 221 years. And for 36 of the states it was never the case anyway.

I mean, maybe if they were separated by some vast distance it would be different, but it's not like we have any regions that are more than half a day's travel away from each other (give or take an hour or two)

EDIT:
Not counting embassies. I suppose travel between some of the embassies could be longer than maine to hawaii.

So states dont have their own individual economies, and populations with different desires and interests? Rust Belt Michigan and California have the exact same goals and values?

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #655 on: December 14, 2016, 01:49:29 am »
They're not supposed to
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #656 on: December 14, 2016, 02:01:09 am »
They're not supposed to

What are you even trying to say dude?

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #657 on: December 14, 2016, 02:26:50 am »
https://archive.is/qKSm2

Quote
An ABC FOX Montana investigation tonight into Richard Spencer, the part-time Whitefish resident who is inspiring white supremacists across the country.
Our reporting has uncovered an unexpected by-product of Spencer's notoriety - - a family and a community torn apart.
Spencer’s latest news-storm came last week when he spoke at Texas A & M, provoking heated confrontation and once-again, mentions of Montana - - and Whitefish specifically - - as his part-time home.
So, we went back to Whitefish - - and here's what we uncovered.
Richard Spencer was raised in Texas, but has been spending time in Whitefish for years with his family.  His mother, Sherry Spencer, still lives in a beautiful home at Whitefish Mountain Resort.  She also runs a business downtown, but perhaps not for long.
"Hail trump!  Hail our people!  Hail victory!" says Richard Spencer.
In a speech last month at the National Policy Institute's annual convention, the crowd's Nazi-like response rocketed Richard Spencer into the media stratosphere. But back here on Earth, and specifically in Whitefish, the war over Spencer's white nationalist views has locals fighting battles in the newspaper and on the street - - 22 Lupfer Avenue specifically.
It’s a new building in Whitefish's downtown historic district.  First owned by Richard Spencer, and now owned by his mother, Sherry.  There are vacation rentals on the top floor, businesses lease at street-level.
But Sherry says her son's political views - - and his detractors - - are forcing her to sell the property.  In an email to us, Sherry says, "As painful as this is, I am exploring a potential sale of the building."
One of those detractors is Tanya Gersh, a prominent member of the community, who told me in an email: "She (Sherry) is profiting off of the people of the local community, all the while having facilitated Richard’s work spreading hate by letting him live and use her home address for his organization.”
Virginia’s state corporation commission still lists Sherry's home as the principle office location for Richard’s white nationalist organization, The National Policy Institute.   And a dive into Sherry's Facebook page supports the fact that Richard has spent a substantial amount of time with his mother in Whitefish, snow skiing, water skiing, hiking, holidays.
Sherry’s Facebook page also has photos of her son when he spoke at the Mencken Club's annual gathering in 2010, A group the Southern Poverty Law Center refers to as “A band of white nationalists and pseudo academic racists.”  Pictures also show Sherry and her husband attending.
In Sherry's email to me, she says, "As parents, we deeply love our son, as we always will.  We unequivocally do not agree with the extreme positions espoused by Richard."
She goes on to say, "We are stunned by the actions of Love Lives Here, an organization claiming to advocate tolerance and equal treatment of all citizens, yet coursing financial harm to many innocent parties."
Ina Albert, Love Lives Here co-founder, says, "I don't know what she's talking about.  We don't cause financial harm to anybody."
Human rights group Love Lives Here has been vocally opposed to Richard Spencer's views, but its co-founder says she has no problem with Richard spending time, or his mother doing business in Whitefish.
"I don't know what he does when he comes here,” says Albert.  “But that is not our problem with Richard Spencer.  It is the national policy institute and what that stands for and our town being smeared by his philosophy."
Tanya says she does have a problem with it, though.  She says, Sherry "Could address this by selling the building, making a donation to human rights efforts, and making a statement in opposition to white supremacist ideas spread by Richard."
One thing on which both Tanya and Sherry agree: The tenants at 22 Lupfer are stuck in the middle.  The owner of Whitefish Aesthetics tells me her association with the building is destroying her business and she's moving out if Sherry doesn't sell it.
Sherry wrote to Tanya that, “Her son's actions have been a source of anguish within her family.”
It’s also been a source of contention in Whitefish.  A letter to the editor of the Daily Interlake: "The mob rule reaction to Richard Spencer's mere existence in Whitefish reminds me of the old Frankenstein movies where the townspeople gathered with pitchforks and torches."
And: “This ‘group’ which is supposed to love all, only loves those who agree with them.”
A town divided, a mother torn, and a man whose mission is continuing to stir controversy on a national, and very local level.

So Richard Spencers mother is being bullied into selling her property and leaving town. Because hes mean.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: News Stories Which Highlight the Structure of the System
« Reply #658 on: December 14, 2016, 04:51:48 am »
They're not supposed to

What are you even trying to say dude?
Everyone ought to be copying cultural elements from everyone else and by this time everything ought to be everywhere
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It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

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