Anarchism and Welfare

[Don Coyote]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Two points:
1. Of COURSE you didn't join to kill anyone, neither have you said or done anything to indicate that you would enjoy taking lives. Troll account is trollish.

2. That said, the military is inherently violent and you are an adult, of legal age and entered willingly into a contract whose terms imply that you will likely, at some point, be required to take a life to not be in breach of that contract. I did it, you did it, I understand. There a level of disconnect from the following truth: "the purpose of the military is to kill people in a situation wherein my elected officials have determined they will not listen to reason." It's easy to forget when you're in your early 20s and indulging fantasies in your head of decoding intel and jumping out of airplanes but it is nonetheless true and your own fault/responsibility if, after jumping out of airplanes, your orders include putting a slug into the head of a 12 year old child, pointing a gun at you.

Either this is a direct comparison or it makes no sense in this thread.

The fact that she brings it up says to me that she thinks the potential for a service member, such as myself, should either not get pissed, or that I should expect shit like this and bear it. As it stands now it sounds like I don't even have the luxury of taking pride in any bit of my service else I be lumped in with sick fucks like bh.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Well fuck you too navcat. Seems the reason I got pissed at corpsefucker went right over your fucking head.

I give up.

Kind of seems past time for that.

Here's the thing; you are talking down to everyone who has a legitimate beef with Babs. You don't know what happened, yet you are assuming  that at least four of us are being shit-flinging monkeys because we can't stand the guy. You LITERALLY SAID AS MUCH in that post up there.

I don't know where I called at least four of you shit-flinging monkeys. I also agree that you have legitimate reasons why you can't stand the guy.

Really?

I try to conduct myself in a manner that maybe makes the net sum of my existence here maybe a TINY bit more good than shit...or if I can't add more good, at least I can try not to add any more shit.

And your judging me for that, you in the midst of all your (valid) complaints about how humans are so shitty to one another and how nobody's decent anymore, how the whole world has turned to shitty, shit, shit makes you look to me like a guy, stuck at the bottom of a deep shithole, taking a shit, smearing shit, throwing wads of shit at anyone who comes by to try to help you out of the shit and complaining loudly and angrily about how the world is just shit. I don't know whether to try to put on a tyvek bodysuit and try to forcibly hug you, retaliate with a marshmallow gun or just decon myself and walk away from you for awhile. I fucking hurts so bad it's making me cry because if have any hope of anyone here fucking getting the meaning and value in what I'm trying to do here, it's you. And you know it. And you're shitting on it anyway.

I don't understand why this is so confusing for you.

[Phox]

Jesus Fuck, Navkat... shut the fuck up and let it go.


You're treading a fine line between naivety and condescension, and the more you try to act "reasonable" the more you are coming off to those who are taking issue with you as pretentious and arrogant.

*I* was around for all the shit that went down with Babs. I saw it first hand.

You, on the other hand, were not, did not, and cannot. Your points stopped being valid a long friggin' time ago, and all you are succeeding in doing is making it seem like you're trying to insert yourself into a situation that have no business being involved in, and insulting three quarters of the participants to boot. WHETHER OR NOT YOU MEAN TO IS NOT RELEVANT AT THIS POINT.

Dok raises a good point about the CU thing. Something else that you were not in command of all the facts of (and could not be reasonably expected to be), and yet you insisted on making your opinion known, and because you don't have all the facts, you end up coming off as sticking your nose in where it honestly doesn't belong, and you seem to be having issues communicating your own points and understandding the points of others lately. You really need to get a handle on that.

Note: I am not knocking you. Believe me, I know the feeling of wanting to comment on everything, especially on issues that you feel strongly about, but seriously, approaching ANY situation and forming an opinion without all of the facts (which in the case of both BH and CU are impossible to come by at this point) is bound to end poorly.

[The Johnny]

2.  He even said this thread was a troll from the beginning, because I had been laughing at him for being an anarchist collecting welfare from the mean old state.

Well, for sure it wasnt in the OP. Where at he said it was a troll? PMs or another thread?

[Doktor Howl]

2.  He even said this thread was a troll from the beginning, because I had been laughing at him for being an anarchist collecting welfare from the mean old state.

Well, for sure it wasnt in the OP. Where at he said it was a troll? PMs or another thread?

Page two of the thread, IIRC.

ETA:  Page 3.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,32371.30/msg,1171213.html

[The Johnny]

You can also start threads, you know. And unless you take up jacking other people's threads, it's highly unlikely that anyone would jack yours.

Although, of course, part 2 of why this thread was doomed from the beginning is because all it's about is him getting attention. He's a self-proclaimed Anarchist and he's on welfare, and for some reason he doesn't think there's a conflict.

Fair enough, just note that part of my initial arguments revolved around depending on if he was a constant thread jacker or not (and no, i cannot keep up with the mass volume of threads and everyones behaviour).

See if you only told me that instead of insulting me we coulda saved a lot of time and words. But i think the reaction also came from people perceiveing me as "hes defending BH" or whatever.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You can also start threads, you know. And unless you take up jacking other people's threads, it's highly unlikely that anyone would jack yours.

Although, of course, part 2 of why this thread was doomed from the beginning is because all it's about is him getting attention. He's a self-proclaimed Anarchist and he's on welfare, and for some reason he doesn't think there's a conflict.

Fair enough, just note that part of my initial arguments revolved around depending on if he was a constant thread jacker or not (and no, i cannot keep up with the mass volume of threads and everyones behaviour).

See if you only told me that instead of insulting me we coulda saved a lot of time and words. But i think the reaction also came from people perceiveing me as "hes defending BH" or whatever.

I did tell you that he has a history of jacking threads. You ignored it.

[Doktor Howl]

You can also start threads, you know. And unless you take up jacking other people's threads, it's highly unlikely that anyone would jack yours.

Although, of course, part 2 of why this thread was doomed from the beginning is because all it's about is him getting attention. He's a self-proclaimed Anarchist and he's on welfare, and for some reason he doesn't think there's a conflict.

Fair enough, just note that part of my initial arguments revolved around depending on if he was a constant thread jacker or not (and no, i cannot keep up with the mass volume of threads and everyones behaviour).

See if you only told me that instead of insulting me we coulda saved a lot of time and words. But i think the reaction also came from people perceiveing me as "hes defending BH" or whatever.

I did tell you that he has a history of jacking threads. You ignored it.

It's hard to be satisfyingly self-righteous when you go around listening.

[Doktor Howl]

Also, for the record, I derailed this thread BEFORE you posted in it, Johnny.  It's not all about you.

[The Johnny]

Ok, now i can see why it all happened, i just didnt know certain things, its not really on my agenda to gratuitously fuel the drama

[Salty]

Ok, now i can see why it all happened, i just didnt know certain things, its not really on my agenda to gratuitously fuel the drama

I feel like we all learned something today.

[Doktor Howl]

Ok, now i can see why it all happened, i just didnt know certain things, its not really on my agenda to gratuitously fuel the drama

I feel like we all learned something today.

Not me.  I'm still dumb as fuck.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Note how BH eventually slunk back to the shadows, yet everyone continued to bite each others heads off over him. The presence of the Godess is strong in this thread.

[navkat]

I was getting seeeeriously upset before and needed to walk away for a while. I also needed to sort out some of the information because I just wasn't getting it.

Here it is: I opened my mouth without all of the information. I did it in the Cap't U thread and I did it here and I'm sorry. I am going to try to learn from those mistakes and not do it again.

I have a difficulty parsing some of the input when it comes to people. I also have a huge difficulty understanding how I am coming across by the words I'm selecting to convey my message. I know this is a flaw of mine and I try to do my best to account for it but sometimes, I'm just plain clueless. You guys are not the first ones to get angry at me about it and you probably won't be the last. It's okay, it's just something I have to work around and it just means I have the duty to try harder.

Coyote & Roger: It deeply hurts me that something I said made you feel as though I was in any way validating the idea that either of you, by virtue of your time in the service, had a desire to or got enjoyment from killing or hurting other living people. Out of everything on here, I'm torn up about that. I realize now that that must've felt like a betrayal, also. I hope that I have been able to correct is and illustrate what I meant to the degree where you are no longer carrying that burden--though I know just the fact that it seemed that I was saying so probably stung just the same. I can't undo that. That part will probably stick in my head for a while.

I am not doing any more good for anyone in this thread. I'm just making a bigger mess of things so I need to bow out. However, you have the right to your feelings and to express them without feeling shut down or like I said my peace and flounced without giving you the floor so I will continue to pop over to read what you have to say but I really need to disengage. I feel this is the right thing to do. If there's something you really want answers about, you can PM, call or email me anytime and I'll do my utmost.

I hope you will be able to understand that I am flawed, forgive me these flaws and find value in my participation here again someday. I can't promise I will never make another dumb mistake or run my mouth without all the information but I will try.

Thanks,
-jenn

[Freeky]

Nav, I can now better articulate why I am furious with you.

During you recap of the situation, you shorthanded how Coyote and I were describing how and why we detest him.  That shorthand was "He's gross [or something like that] and he called me names.  THE NERVE!"

That right there is the most offensive, hateful, dismissive thing I've ever heard from someone I considered a friend.  If you can't figure out why, then like I said earlier, just stop talking to me.