Author Topic: Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in  (Read 23606 times)

The Johnny

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #465 on: July 14, 2020, 04:16:30 am »

Ah yes, speaking the language of a b-side movie, very serious and scientific article.

Cut out the “zombie” shit, and it’s fairly scary and accurate. Filamentous cellular morphology could easily behave this way, and in fact is often used this way by filopodous amoebae. Well, lysosomes instead of virions, but still.

The cancer part is scare mongering, because the fucked up morphology is due to viral load, and an effective antiviral course would cause them to return to normal function. Temporarily larger than normal, with possible related symptoms in rare cases... but cancerous, not likely.

More likely to create a very different kind of abnormal cell that gets very large but never reproduces. These are common after many, many viral infections. Check the swelling/clumping, Syncitium, and Focal Degeneration (sounds like the COVID cytopathy is a weird mix of the three, and the cellular spread is most similar to focal degeneration) entries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytopathic_effect

And you’ll note that non-degenerative/destructive cytopathy doesn’t make a cell dangerous independent of the viral infection, or kill it. There are exceptions, but just for a good example: HPV is oncogenic and isn’t known for its distortions of cellular morphology. No, it’s retroviral in action: check E6/E7 proteins section under Virology for the mechanism, and note that the HPV directly interacts with cellular genome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papillomavirus_infection That and toxins are the only way for infections to potentiate cancer, and viruses don’t do toxins, because they literally can’t, that involves nonexistent cellular machinery.

Now that we’ve gotten cancer bullshit out of the way, the rest seems pretty solid, so I think you maybe were a bit harsh here Johnny.


EDIT: forgot to provide HPV link

Its just that fear mongering and clickbait language makes me go rabid blind... lot of people living in uncertainty about the future and the author making an ad-lib Resident Evil fanfiction spin.
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #466 on: July 14, 2020, 04:25:07 am »
Ok I admit that it's not evident that any form of mitosis is involved in proliferation.

*ahem*

Airborne fucking harrably mutagenic novel virus that it is hoped cancer drugs may be some meaningful hindrance to.

That's just not as easy to say as "cancer", which may not be described here but I would certainly not rule out as possible long term. But I get it if you want to be painstakingly precise.
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The Johnny

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #467 on: July 14, 2020, 09:03:10 am »

Im sorry and I also want to be precise in what im saying.

Yes, I got triggered by the article, I dont deny or debate the scientific information it contains (see Altered above for more info, I dont know about the subject)... it was just the quality of journalism.

Second, TWJ, i didnt mean to police how you express yourself and was not attacking the words you chose, i was still rambling on about the article exclusively, sorry if it came out that way.
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Cramulus

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #468 on: July 14, 2020, 03:48:12 pm »
Its just that fear mongering and clickbait language makes me go rabid blind... lot of people living in uncertainty about the future and the author making an ad-lib Resident Evil fanfiction spin.

totally agree--of the articles I've read on this topic, that one was the most clickbaity.

"sinister", "creepy", "ghoulish", "disfigured zombie cells", "Like space invaders in a science fiction tale"

^
none of that language is good health-science reporting, it's intent is persuasive rather than informative


I think it's interesting that other sources covering the same finding focus on the researcher's major takeaway - recognizing these filipodia structures suggests there may be existing drugs which could treat these infections. The discovery of these filipodia opens up new treatment avenues.

Quote
“The distinct visualization of the extensive branching of the filopodia once again elucidates how understanding the biology of virus-host interaction can illuminate possible points of intervention in the disease,” said co-lead author Dr. Nevan Krogan, Director of the Quantitative Biosciences Institute the University of California San Francisco and Senior Investigator at Gladstone Institutes.

“Kinases possess certain structural features that make them good drug targets. Drugs have already been developed to target some of the kinases we identified, so we urge clinical researchers to test the antiviral effects of these drugs in their trials,” Dr. Beltrao said.

The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #469 on: July 14, 2020, 05:33:07 pm »

Im sorry and I also want to be precise in what im saying.

Yes, I got triggered by the article, I dont deny or debate the scientific information it contains (see Altered above for more info, I dont know about the subject)... it was just the quality of journalism.

Second, TWJ, i didnt mean to police how you express yourself and was not attacking the words you chose, i was still rambling on about the article exclusively, sorry if it came out that way.

No apology needed. In point of fact I made no complaint about any of what you're talking about and wasn't even thinking most of it. If anything I'm not pleased it rubbed you wrong on style. That's not my intent, but I did choose the one with the grabby sounding title over others. It was an arbitrary personal choice and I make no appologies for it.

I do find it darkly amusing nobody is picking at me using the word airborne anymore. Not because I turned out to be very likley correct, but because acquiescence to the popular opinion allowed me to almost put it out of my mind for a while and the joke feels like it is kind of on me.  :|
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #470 on: July 14, 2020, 05:57:34 pm »

I do find it darkly amusing nobody is picking at me using the word airborne anymore.

I gave up.  You selected your conclusion and have been laboring on it ever since.
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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #471 on: July 14, 2020, 07:08:16 pm »
Ill pick up on it. The virus isn't airborn. Its consistent with droplet or surface spread. Which has been reinforced world wide by the rate of transmission
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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #472 on: July 14, 2020, 07:33:37 pm »
Way higher transmission than fomites (surface spread), but nowhere near what’s needed for airborne.

Social distancing and a mask would have limited to no measurable effect on airborne transmission. You’d need something like a MOPP outfit, at least. If cloth masks and social distancing have a real effect, as we have seen that they do, it can’t be airborne.
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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #473 on: July 14, 2020, 07:35:30 pm »
By the way, remember that your eyes are a major transmission method for COVID.

How many people wear non-vented goggles?

If it’s airborne, ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE COVID.

Edit to stress HAVE not WILL GET. They already have it, if it’s airborne. The protests would unavoidably correspond with a spike and they do not.

EDIT 2 to make things more clear.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 07:38:52 pm by altered »
“I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.”

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The Johnny

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #474 on: July 14, 2020, 08:02:46 pm »

The only thing I've read about airborne transmission is how second-hand smoke can allegedly aerosolize the virus... I've also picked up some face shields, to stop myself from touching my face, protect my eyes, and protect myself from the possibility of aerosolized virii in certain situations.

Face shields are pretty nice when u have to speak to people for prolonged times, 10/10 would recommend and theyre cheap for the most part.
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The Wizard Joseph

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #475 on: July 14, 2020, 10:10:54 pm »
Ok. We'll wait a little longer and see if WHO and all those dissenting scientists come to some sort of consensus on the matter. I am not just some dude shopping for a predertermined conclusion. I dropped it entirely until presented with the fact of all the dissent on the matter. It's not just my speculation at this point. Guess we'll see.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
 - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

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Cramulus

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #476 on: July 20, 2020, 03:24:50 pm »
some good news - Oxford has a handhold on a possible vaccine, called ChAdOx1 nCoV-19

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839


.............of course it's called Chad

The Johnny

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #477 on: July 20, 2020, 03:40:21 pm »
some good news - Oxford has a handhold on a possible vaccine, called ChAdOx1 nCoV-19

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839


.............of course it's called Chad

Quote
It is made from a genetically engineered virus that causes the common cold in chimpanzees.

It has been heavily modified, first so it cannot cause infections in people and also to make it "look" more like coronavirus.

That's so godamn creepy, but it is what it is.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #478 on: July 20, 2020, 04:58:14 pm »
Not really, it's a lot like smallpox inoculation: just give someone cowpox instead. The body confuses the two, the cowpox is pretty much harmless, it works.

They just had to make their own cowpox this go around.
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Re: Coronavirus data and events as they come in
« Reply #479 on: July 20, 2020, 07:17:00 pm »
The Chad vaccine versus The Virgin Herd Immunity