Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I also want to point out that ignoring/pushing past a woman's objections is already, in itself, an implication of violence. By doing so, a man is sending the clear message that what she wants doesn't count.

Everything you've posted in this thread is awesome.  I do not however, find the above statement to be always true.  A woman may object to getting hurt or the idea she has of what you want from her (to take advantage of her somehow).  This can be addressed by being forthcoming and genuine, demonstrating your character and intentions.  Of course, if she can't trust or is afraid, there may be deeper issues that need to be addressed.  At this point i think your statement becomes true. 

As bad as it may sound to you, at this point i'm often encouraged to move on... not because she has chosen to "not give it up" but because as great a person as she may be, i'm not interested in becoming someone's father or shrink.  Perhaps i'll take her number and if she resolves her issues she might once again be a candidate, otherwise "it was nice to meet you" or "let's just be friends" if i'm so inclined.

Shut up. Seriously. Go re-read the thread and take a second to listen.

At this point I'm utterly disgusted too.

HEY "BLACKFOOT" (What's with that SN, Cherohonkey?)

THE REASON WOMEN DON'T WANT YOUR LITTLE WEEWEE ISN'T THAT THEY NEED A FATHER OR A SHRINK.

THE REASON IS THAT IT HAS YOU ON THE OTHER END OF IT.

It's Pope Lecherous.

Insult if you like, i don't know if you've read my other posts, i don't know if you think a man can or can't develop skill to become attractive to and attract a woman.  I don't endorse deceit.  I don't endorse hurting others.  I don't endorse using techniques that employ either.  Be outraged.

Then why are you defending PUA methods?

May I ask you if you've ever "pushed past" a woman's boundaries, only to find that she never calls you or answers your phone calls again?

[Pope Lecherous]

Having good social skills is not the same thing as buying into the pick-up artist MO. Why do you keep trying to equate them?

I'm really not.  I think those skills, among others, can be taught to a person.  If it needs to be called something outside of pickup to not be associated with the losers who are pickup artists, that's cool.  All that i've been saying is that it's an overall skill that is a sum of other skills and it can be learned and practiced ethically.  Everyone is raging and thinking i'm supporting pickup artists, when all i'm supporting is having the ability to be successful with women in an ethical manner. 

I would like to address the above post i made if you feel like it.  You probably are tired of trying to convince me of something, but i'm pretty sure that most of the things you are trying to convince me of i already believe and the things we do disagree on can be discussed logically.  It's just that i don't seem to know if you really know where i stand or what i'm meaning to say.

[Pope Lecherous]

I also want to point out that ignoring/pushing past a woman's objections is already, in itself, an implication of violence. By doing so, a man is sending the clear message that what she wants doesn't count.

Everything you've posted in this thread is awesome.  I do not however, find the above statement to be always true.  A woman may object to getting hurt or the idea she has of what you want from her (to take advantage of her somehow).  This can be addressed by being forthcoming and genuine, demonstrating your character and intentions.  Of course, if she can't trust or is afraid, there may be deeper issues that need to be addressed.  At this point i think your statement becomes true. 

As bad as it may sound to you, at this point i'm often encouraged to move on... not because she has chosen to "not give it up" but because as great a person as she may be, i'm not interested in becoming someone's father or shrink.  Perhaps i'll take her number and if she resolves her issues she might once again be a candidate, otherwise "it was nice to meet you" or "let's just be friends" if i'm so inclined.

Shut up. Seriously. Go re-read the thread and take a second to listen.

At this point I'm utterly disgusted too.

HEY "BLACKFOOT" (What's with that SN, Cherohonkey?)

THE REASON WOMEN DON'T WANT YOUR LITTLE WEEWEE ISN'T THAT THEY NEED A FATHER OR A SHRINK.

THE REASON IS THAT IT HAS YOU ON THE OTHER END OF IT.

It's Pope Lecherous.

Insult if you like, i don't know if you've read my other posts, i don't know if you think a man can or can't develop skill to become attractive to and attract a woman.  I don't endorse deceit.  I don't endorse hurting others.  I don't endorse using techniques that employ either.  Be outraged.

Then why are you defending PUA methods?

May I ask you if you've ever "pushed past" a woman's boundaries, only to find that she never calls you or answers your phone calls again?

Name a PUA method that i have endorsed. I haven't. I don't.

I'm pretty straight forward but not disrespectful.  That's enough to protect me and whoever it is i'm speaking to from having to question whether anyone's boundaries are being pushed. So no.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And in case you're sitting there thinking "Oh yeah, another ball-buster who only likes meek men she can dominate", the opposite is true. I require a strong man who can absolutely hold his own with me and won't let me push him around, nor is intimidated by me. Someone with the character and confidence to be able to fully respect me and collaborate with me without ever letting himself get trampled. Men with that kind of strength are not the type who try to push boundaries or talk around them. At all. I cannot see Roger, Alty, LMNO, or ECH (to name but a few folks on the board) "pushing" a date's boundaries. Strong, secure people don't. Strong, secure people go "eh, he/she isn't into it at the moment... I'll see how it goes another time".

For the record, pushing/coaxing after I've put up resistance is the #1 disqualifier I find with guys. If I've decided to kiss them, fuck yeah I'm assessing them for a potential sex partner. If they're a decent kisser, there's a total possibility it'll go somewhere, if not that night then maybe the next time. If I put on the stops and they get pushy, there's no reason for me to waste any more of their time or mine. Luckily, most guys DON'T do that. The ones that do always come across to me as pathetic and laughable, and possibly mildly retarded.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I also want to point out that ignoring/pushing past a woman's objections is already, in itself, an implication of violence. By doing so, a man is sending the clear message that what she wants doesn't count.

Everything you've posted in this thread is awesome.  I do not however, find the above statement to be always true.  A woman may object to getting hurt or the idea she has of what you want from her (to take advantage of her somehow).  This can be addressed by being forthcoming and genuine, demonstrating your character and intentions.  Of course, if she can't trust or is afraid, there may be deeper issues that need to be addressed.  At this point i think your statement becomes true. 

As bad as it may sound to you, at this point i'm often encouraged to move on... not because she has chosen to "not give it up" but because as great a person as she may be, i'm not interested in becoming someone's father or shrink.  Perhaps i'll take her number and if she resolves her issues she might once again be a candidate, otherwise "it was nice to meet you" or "let's just be friends" if i'm so inclined.

Shut up. Seriously. Go re-read the thread and take a second to listen.

At this point I'm utterly disgusted too.

HEY "BLACKFOOT" (What's with that SN, Cherohonkey?)

THE REASON WOMEN DON'T WANT YOUR LITTLE WEEWEE ISN'T THAT THEY NEED A FATHER OR A SHRINK.

THE REASON IS THAT IT HAS YOU ON THE OTHER END OF IT.

It's Pope Lecherous.

Insult if you like, i don't know if you've read my other posts, i don't know if you think a man can or can't develop skill to become attractive to and attract a woman.  I don't endorse deceit.  I don't endorse hurting others.  I don't endorse using techniques that employ either.  Be outraged.

Then why are you defending PUA methods?

May I ask you if you've ever "pushed past" a woman's boundaries, only to find that she never calls you or answers your phone calls again?

Name a PUA method that i have endorsed. I haven't. I don't.

I'm pretty straight forward but not disrespectful.  That's enough to protect me and whoever it is i'm speaking to from having to question whether anyone's boundaries are being pushed. So no.

Then why are you arguing against people who find PUA methods to be creepy and rapey? Just to be contrary? That's adolescent and tiresome.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Having good social skills is not the same thing as buying into the pick-up artist MO. Why do you keep trying to equate them?

I'm really not.  I think those skills, among others, can be taught to a person.  If it needs to be called something outside of pickup to not be associated with the losers who are pickup artists, that's cool.  All that i've been saying is that it's an overall skill that is a sum of other skills and it can be learned and practiced ethically.  Everyone is raging and thinking i'm supporting pickup artists, when all i'm supporting is having the ability to be successful with women in an ethical manner. 

I would like to address the above post i made if you feel like it.  You probably are tired of trying to convince me of something, but i'm pretty sure that most of the things you are trying to convince me of i already believe and the things we do disagree on can be discussed logically.  It's just that i don't seem to know if you really know where i stand or what i'm meaning to say.

You keep going to the "I wasn't actually arguing with that, I was arguing with something else you didn't say" rebuttal. WTF, dude?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

U R RONG AND PUA ISN'T BAD I MEAN NOT PUA BUT SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS NOT PUA AND PUSHING BOUNDARIES ISN'T DISRESPECTFUL NO I MEAN NOT PUSHING BOUNDARIES BUT BEING STRAIGHTFORWARD AND DIRECT

NOW THAT YOU HAVE DISMANTLED MY ARGUMENTS I AM NOT RILLY DISAGREEING WITH YOU I AM DISAGREEING WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFRENT.


Logical consistency, have you heard of it? 

[Pope Lecherous]

And in case you're sitting there thinking "Oh yeah, another ball-buster who only likes meek men she can dominate", the opposite is true. I require a strong man who can absolutely hold his own with me and won't let me push him around, nor is intimidated by me. Someone with the character and confidence to be able to fully respect me and collaborate with me without ever letting himself get trampled. Men with that kind of strength are not the type who try to push boundaries or talk around them. At all. I cannot see Roger, Alty, LMNO, or ECH (to name but a few folks on the board) "pushing" a date's boundaries. Strong, secure people don't. Strong, secure people go "eh, he/she isn't into it at the moment... I'll see how it goes another time".

I don't presume to imagine you in any sort of way, much less a ball-buster.  I have heard nothing but healthy and enlightened attitudes about sex and the sexes from you.

For the record, pushing/coaxing after I've put up resistance is the #1 disqualifier I find with guys. If I've decided to kiss them, fuck yeah I'm assessing them for a potential sex partner. If they're a decent kisser, there's a total possibility it'll go somewhere, if not that night then maybe the next time. If I put on the stops and they get pushy, there's no reason for me to waste any more of their time or mine. Luckily, most guys DON'T do that. The ones that do always come across to me as pathetic and laughable, and possibly mildly retarded.

For the record, i completely agree with that.  What i meant by alleviating concerns/resistance isn't in the context of getting physical.  Those are things i don't fuck with whatsoever.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And in case you're sitting there thinking "Oh yeah, another ball-buster who only likes meek men she can dominate", the opposite is true. I require a strong man who can absolutely hold his own with me and won't let me push him around, nor is intimidated by me. Someone with the character and confidence to be able to fully respect me and collaborate with me without ever letting himself get trampled. Men with that kind of strength are not the type who try to push boundaries or talk around them. At all. I cannot see Roger, Alty, LMNO, or ECH (to name but a few folks on the board) "pushing" a date's boundaries. Strong, secure people don't. Strong, secure people go "eh, he/she isn't into it at the moment... I'll see how it goes another time".

I don't presume to imagine you in any sort of way, much less a ball-buster.  I have heard nothing but healthy and enlightened attitudes about sex and the sexes from you.

For the record, pushing/coaxing after I've put up resistance is the #1 disqualifier I find with guys. If I've decided to kiss them, fuck yeah I'm assessing them for a potential sex partner. If they're a decent kisser, there's a total possibility it'll go somewhere, if not that night then maybe the next time. If I put on the stops and they get pushy, there's no reason for me to waste any more of their time or mine. Luckily, most guys DON'T do that. The ones that do always come across to me as pathetic and laughable, and possibly mildly retarded.

For the record, i completely agree with that.  What i meant by alleviating concerns/resistance isn't in the context of getting physical.  Those are things i don't fuck with whatsoever.

Are you even reading the posts before deciding to "disagree" with them? Because you are backpedaling like a motherfucker.

[Placid Dingo]

Blackfoot can you give a solid example of what alleviating concerns/resistance looks like? Because I'm not really following exactly what youre trying to say

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Blackfoot, I suggest going back through this conversation sometime when you are fully lucid, because currently, you are making an ass of yourself. I mean this sincerely.

Also, what Dingo said.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Having good social skills is not the same thing as buying into the pick-up artist MO. Why do you keep trying to equate them?

I'm really not.  I think those skills, among others, can be taught to a person.  If it needs to be called something outside of pickup to not be associated with the losers who are pickup artists, that's cool.  All that i've been saying is that it's an overall skill that is a sum of other skills and it can be learned and practiced ethically.  Everyone is raging and thinking i'm supporting pickup artists, when all i'm supporting is having the ability to be successful with women in an ethical manner. 

I would like to address the above post i made if you feel like it.  You probably are tired of trying to convince me of something, but i'm pretty sure that most of the things you are trying to convince me of i already believe and the things we do disagree on can be discussed logically.  It's just that i don't seem to know if you really know where i stand or what i'm meaning to say.

You keep going to the "I wasn't actually arguing with that, I was arguing with something else you didn't say" rebuttal. WTF, dude?

Strawman shit. Probably what he uses when he's trying to get laid.

"IF I JUST KEEP TALKING SHIT AND PUSHING..." 

Fucking pathetic. 

[Pope Lecherous]

U R RONG AND PUA ISN'T BAD I MEAN NOT PUA BUT SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS NOT PUA AND PUSHING BOUNDARIES ISN'T DISRESPECTFUL NO I MEAN NOT PUSHING BOUNDARIES BUT BEING STRAIGHTFORWARD AND DIRECT

NOW THAT YOU HAVE DISMANTLED MY ARGUMENTS I AM NOT RILLY DISAGREEING WITH YOU I AM DISAGREEING WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFRENT.


Logical consistency, have you heard of it? 

We haven't been talking about the same things this entire time.  I blame it on a failure to define terms. Or me.  This is something i'd like to discuss but we can't move forward like this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Blackfoot can you give a solid example of what alleviating concerns/resistance looks like? Because I'm not really following exactly what youre trying to say

Yeah, I am pretty damn curious about this myself. If I say "I'm not up for anything more tonight", I'm a little confused about what anyone might have to say about that, that wouldn't just be second-guessing what I'm up for.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

U R RONG AND PUA ISN'T BAD I MEAN NOT PUA BUT SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS NOT PUA AND PUSHING BOUNDARIES ISN'T DISRESPECTFUL NO I MEAN NOT PUSHING BOUNDARIES BUT BEING STRAIGHTFORWARD AND DIRECT

NOW THAT YOU HAVE DISMANTLED MY ARGUMENTS I AM NOT RILLY DISAGREEING WITH YOU I AM DISAGREEING WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFRENT.


Logical consistency, have you heard of it? 

We haven't been talking about the same things this entire time.  I blame it on a failure to define terms. Or me.  This is something i'd like to discuss but we can't move forward like this.

Then why did you state that you "disagreed" with my statements if you don't actually disagree with my statements, but with something else entirely, that I did not say? I'm sure you can see how that might have been a little confusing.