A challenge for all Bush-Haters

[Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy]

Thanks guys.  I was counting on that.   I also thought if you ate brains you were a zombie.  So does that mean that zombies get high when they get a hold of some good brains.  If you aren't already a zombie and you eat the brains, do you then become a zombie, or better yet a zombie that is high?  I just need some clarification going forward on this one... :

She got high because the brains were full of drugs.

[Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy]

Why yes!  It comes in it's own box, as well!




We sell no wine that isn't absolute crap.

My step mother drinks wine out of a box. hehehehehe

At family functions she might go through a whole box.  Rubbed her tits on my husband once.  Felt the need to remind my brother that my husband has sex with me.  Oh, why don't I spend more time over there....

[Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy]

Now hold on there.  Much like barnyard animals, some alcohol is more equal than others.


Right, Snowball?

       

[Chaplin_Sinatra_Fonzarell]

I can't drink box-wine because it tastes like cardboard, because I'm a fag that way.

And I don't know how much can be changed about this "Republic". I mean the last two presidential victories were pretty obviously the result of election fraud. Ah crap, I just opened up another can of worms.

[LMNO]

Ok, it gets reaaaaly semantic here.  I look at "voter fraud" the same way as I look at "global warming".


I do thing global warming through human industry exists, and I do think it will become a problem if it is not corrected.  However, I don't think it's anywhere near as serious as some environmentalists claim.

I do think there was some voter irregularities that were ignored, and maybe there was a Republican or two that tried to make things more irregular, but i think a deliberate conspiracy of voter fraud would be extremely hard to prove.

[Hoshiko]

eL, I'm still Hoshi. Do not adjust your television sets, this is just a phase. It is only a phase.

Gnome, I knew you would agree with me. That's why I said it

Fonzarell, voter fraud should've never happened, particularly in the first W win. But there's no denying the fact that half of the US wanted him for President in the first place. What was being contested was a miniscule portion of voters. Also, I tend to think that voter fraud happens in both camps, not just the pubs. Politics is sleazy. Either way, the lesson from that was not that republicans are evil but that we need to re-evaluate the electoral system on a smaller scale. Locally, is the system set up in such a way as to be fair to both parties?

What really scares me is the trend of electronic voting without a paper trail. Back that shit up, yo.

[Voice of Truth]

I like really cheap red wine.  Not Ripple or anything, but like, Livingston or something.  The expensive stuff is good, but hard on the pocket book.  Plus it can be a little dry sometimes.  But I do like an occassional wine buzz.  It's by far, the most functionally effective alcohol I mess with.  Even the bourbon can't hold a candle to a good sized bottle of wine.

I also feel what you guys are saying about the gov't in reference to what you don't like about America, but there are plenty of people out there including some of you (I think) who have said were this empirical power forcing our "way of gov't" on people.  I'm sorry, but if forcing democracy on people is what they mean, I don't get it.  In a democracy people elect who they want so they get what "they" want.  That is basically as close as we can get to giving people what they want, short of anarchy.  And that's not to say I think we should just go mop up every gov't that isn't a democracy, but WHEN we choose to topple a gov't (let's think more WWII so as to avoid the whole Iraq debate for a change) then we put a democracy in place and give those people freedom and the ability to choose the type of society THEY want, via elections.  I just think that's a good thing, and the "empire" thing just gets on my nerves.  Of all the western nations, we have had the smallest number of "municipalities" or whatever you want to call them.  France still can't let their interests in Africa go.  It's like, give it up guys; they don't want you there butting into their business.  Anyway, I feel the thing about the "gov't", but some people really think that America, not the administration, sucks, and THAT, I don't get.

[gnimbley]

Hoshi: I think your take on voter fraud is about right. To me
the whole thing is just something for the fanatic left to latch
on to convince themselves that they didn't lose the election.
"We deserve to be in charge, damn it! And those nasty, evil,
slimy, unfair, stupid Republicans couldn't win fair and square,
they had to steal the election. That's the only way we could
have lost!" Bah, the race was a tie and the coin flip ended up
in W's court is the way I look at it. It's like when my sports
teams lose a close one. There is ALWAYS a questionable
call the fanatic can blame the loss on. IF ONLY! Bah!

My problem with the election is that we were allowed to
choose only between Bush and Kerry.

And HI VoT! Thought you weren't going to discuss politics
here. Too tempting, huh? I think it is disengenious to try
and restrict the talk about "forcing democracy" to
"let's think more WWII so as to avoid the whole Iraq debate
for a change" since Iraq is the whole point of the argument.
Forget everything BUT Iraq. Iraq is the case under discussion.
Okay? WWII was a bit different and, arguably, totally
irrelevant to the case of Iraq (and whatever comes next.)

(Sorry, I know I am totally ignorant, so just ignore
me, but seeing as I am totally incapable of being anything
other than myself, I just had to butt in. I'll shut up now.)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

::Steals Rog's head from Era::

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNnnnnnnumy!

I am SUCH a whore.

[Voice of Truth]

Well I do believe we are promoting democracy and freedom just the same in Iraq, but it seems it can't be mentioned without the whole "unjust war" thing being brought up.  Otherwise, it really is interchangeable IMO with the aftermath of WWII.

Also, you are 100% correct.  After I made the post I thought, "You weren't supposed to do that on this forum anymore".  Great minds think, um, alike, um...  I don't like where this is headed.  (crying in shame for having a like mind with a short gnome with an assface...)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well I do believe we are promoting democracy and freedom just the same in Iraq,

One dead baby at a time!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Otherwise, it really is interchangeable IMO with the aftermath of WWII.

Um, yeah.  Germans were blowing us up with IEDs in 1947.

Are you really this stupid?

Is anyone?

[Voice of Truth]

I'm talking about trying to establish democracy, not the actual things we had to deal with to do so.  Who's the stupid one.  This is exactly why I said I didn't bring up Iraq.

[Hoshiko]

Then answer me this, VoT. Why did they "Topple" the Iraqi government in the first place? According to our president (now that he's admitted that the intelligence for WMD was wrong and thus not a good reason to attack), they did it to further democracy and freedom. That WAS their reasoning, and you can't skirt around that.

You cannot force a country to be democratic without huge amounts of unnecessary pain and suffering. You just can't. The people either want it and fight for it or they don't and they fight against it. The Plutocrats assumed that Iraq would want that and that they would support the ousting of their government no matter the cost to them. They were probably wrong. Democracy is not the One True Way, it's something a collective group of people chooses to govern themselves by. Note the word "chooses".

You might have altruistic reasons for starting the war in the middle east if you were in power, but you can't speak for our leaders, and frankly, their previous choices, connections and world views give us more than enough evidence to say that this war was not fought for "freedom".

If you shove Democracy and Americana down people's throats enough times, sooner or later they're going to turn against you. I know a man who works and lives in Iraq while still having american interests. The minute the war broke out he (approximately) stated that "They haven't done enough research, haven't talked to the Iraqi people about what they truly want, haven't studied the way things are done in this country. They don't want to win the people's hearts and minds. Whoever is doing intelligence for them should be fired. There were many people who wanted the US to help get rid of Saddam but they lesson with every "heart and minds" attack and every spit on their religion and customs. They'll wise up and do it the right way if they want this to turn out well for this country."

They didn't even make the effort to wise up and fight this the smart way. They were psychologically lazy and boorish, and to me that not only shows that this war was poorly thought out and unjust but that they had suspect motives to begin with.

The means sometimes justify the end, you might say. Well, in this case they had the opportunity to do this in a way that would be benificial to everyone (not that I think that that would be right anyway, but it would be better) and they chose not to do that. Instead they pulled when it was important to have slack, and they lost any sympathy many people had for us in the first place. Killing unnecessarily when it would have done just as well to have a little more patience and saved some lives cannot be justifyed. Thus, this war is wrong. Whose interests are they serving? Not America's, and not Iraq's.

No, you don't want to get me started on the subject of Iraq.

[B_M_W]

*kills Ythactha leisurely, with much splashing of blood and vitals*

*Performs "Wave Hands Like Clouds", follows with "ward off left" and finishes with "Apparent Close Up". Era's arm is now in painful lock in which Ythactha can break elbow at any moment*