A challenge for all Bush-Haters

[Cain]

Yeah?  Well I use the mighty NSRA      

ph34r it!

[chaosgraves:agentoferis]

It is kind of funny that you see an AG who thwarted several terrorist plots and kept us free from any significant terrorist attacks in the midst of a war on terror as well as avidly pursuing criminals involved in gun related crime as evil.  You also see an AG who believes we should continuously re-evaluate our policies in regards to protecting this nation as evil as well.

Meanwhile, do you guys remember many other AG's that you are comparing them to, because I sure don't.  AG's aren't something that stick out in your head much, unless it's a Bobby Kennedy or something.  I find it funny there's no mention of Janet Reno's AG Office that did far more to stonewall investigations and hide information than any in history.  Furthermore, they were responsible for the WACO and Ruby Ridge debacles.  They did nothing to pursue gun crime prosecutions and instead spent their time calling for more stringent gun laws (how about you enforce the one's you've got and them come back later...)  Go Reno!!  No mention of any of that, but Ashcroft and Gonzalez, now there's some bad guys.

I call your bluff and raise you again...
   
 

sure they are arresting more gun related gun criminals... they are arresting more people... he;ll some of them are not even doing any crimes...
go figure.

but hey I ounderstand ruby ridge and waco were both tragedies and hell ruby ridge was worse... to bad the media that focused on that isn't artound to talk about their story isn't around to talk with them about what happened afterwards... well except for Micheal Moore( fat fucker)...


so lets see you see violating peoples constitutioanal rights as being a better thing than what reno did ( oh wait there ellias(sic?!?!?) gonzolas.. so come on man she did her best she just chose some wrong ways to go about it... hell they both have violated the constitution... so lets see...which one whichone which one which one.)and man If you want to bring up stuff like that go for the heart... hell talk about how clinton violated the constitution thus becomeing a traitor when he gave the chinese the information in the us patent office on this cds... come on man... giving the totality of americas commercial scientific information on a few cds... thats Down right dirty pool.

[Hoshikocan'tlogin]

Fuckitall, I just lost my post again

It is kind of funny that you see an AG who thwarted several terrorist plots and kept us free from any significant terrorist attacks in the midst of a war on terror as well as avidly pursuing criminals involved in gun related crime as evil.  You also see an AG who believes we should continuously re-evaluate our policies in regards to protecting this nation as evil as well.

Do you honestly believe anything you say? Ok, I'll play nice and give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the AG's office having something to do with the lack of major terrorist attacks.

But we're talking about Gonzalaz, a man who advises torture, against the precedents set in place by the constitution, federal laws, and the Geneva Convention. This man thinks nothing of violating human rights as long as it serves his interests, or those of his affiliations.

In January 2002, Gonzales advised the President that the United States Constitution does not apply to his actions as Commander in Chief, and thus the President could declare the Geneva Conventions inoperative. Gonzales's endorsement of the August 2002 Bybee/Yoo Memorandum approved a definition of torture so vague and evasive as to declare it nonexistent. Most shockingly, he has embraced the unacceptable view that the President has the power to ignore the Constitution, laws duly enacted by Congress and International treaties duly ratified by the United States. He has called the Geneva Conventions "quaint."

Meanwhile, do you guys remember many other AG's that you are comparing them to, because I sure don't.  AG's aren't something that stick out in your head much, unless it's a Bobby Kennedy or something.  I find it funny there's no mention of Janet Reno's AG Office that did far more to stonewall investigations and hide information than any in history.  Furthermore, they were responsible for the WACO and Ruby Ridge debacles.  They did nothing to pursue gun crime prosecutions and instead spent their time calling for more stringent gun laws (how about you enforce the one's you've got and them come back later...)  Go Reno!!  No mention of any of that, but Ashcroft and Gonzalez, now there's some bad guys.

Yes, as young as I was I do remember Janet Reno. I also remember opposing her policies and fuckups as AG and being saddened by those events. I remember her realizing that those were clear human rights violations and trying to place the blame elsewhere.

In the case of Gonzalaz he is not only admitting that certain rights should not exist, he is blatently giving the president ways around good laws, laws that are in place for a reason.

I find it interesting that this is the man Bush appointed as his best possible choice for AG, and I think it says quite a bit about this administrations intentions.

I call your bluff and raise you again...
   
 

Real intelligent there.

[slothrop23]

play nice

[Hoshiko]

Who, me? That was nice, just a little honest debate. Me and VoT have been through it before, no meanness intended.

But you're right, that sort of thing never gets us anywhere. Well, except for the fact that it's fun...

But the server, that thing = worthy of my anger!

[slothrop23]

then release!!!

[Hoshiko]

To: The server

You slutty monkey! I cry at the toadstool of your existence! I weep at the asshattery and tomfoolery and circus hoopery you impose upon ideatry.

I'd suggest you were of equal worth to pond scum, but I think pond scum produces oxygen.

You, server, are no gentleman.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It is kind of funny that you see an AG who thwarted several terrorist plots and kept us free from any significant terrorist attacks in the midst of a war on terror as well as avidly pursuing criminals involved in gun related crime as evil.  

And all it cost us was 2-3 civil liberties, to stop these alledged plots.

What a bargain for us!

[Mangrove]

Was this the famous terror plot that was uncovered in NY?
(Lackawanna?....did i spell that right?)

The terror plot which was splashed all over the news complete with big Bushy speech about how they're winning?

The same terror plot that was found to be non-existent and the people found innocent and let go without so much as a murmur?

Just checking.

We've had hundreds of terror related arrests in the UK. Only 4 convictions, those relating to things like possession of illegal literature rather than any actual plots and ZERO al-qaeda. That's right. ZIP. NADA. Not a sausage.

Just saying.

[slothrop23]

just wondering, but how can you have a war on terror, if there has been no attacks. surely thats just called a war.
i will quote bill hicks for the last fucking time

"there never was a war,...you see a war is when two armies are fighting.

So you see right there..."

[Mangrove]

just wondering, but how can you have a war on terror, if there has been no attacks. surely thats just called a war.
i will quote bill hicks for the last fucking time

"there never was a war,...you see a war is when two armies are fighting.

So you see right there..."

you can never have too many bill hicks quotes. keep 'em coming.

[slothrop23]

man i wish he was still alive, can you imagine.he would be fucking running down the streets with guns killing everyone for their own good. arnie as governor married to a kennedy, bush junior getting in twice.

war death  aids famine recession depression. wheres ted

[Cain]

man i wish he was still alive, can you imagine.he would be fucking running down the streets with guns killing everyone for their own good. arnie as governor married to a kennedy, bush junior getting in twice.

war death  aids famine recession depression. wheres ted

Lets face it, if he were alive, it would rock.

[Bella]

Yes, it would.
But I think slothrop channels Senor Hicks, so you can still communicate with him, Kensei.

[gnimbley]

Why do the dirty work yourself?

http://www.theday.com/eng/web/news/re.aspx?re=2C5A122D-EE6E-4728-AB9D-05E4675406EA

In the fall of 2002 Arar, a Canadian citizen, suddenly found himself caught up in the cruel mockery of justice that the Bush administration has substituted for the rule of law in the post-Sept. 11 world. While attempting to change planes at New York's Kennedy Airport on his way home to Canada from a family vacation in Tunisia, he was seized by U.S. authorities, interrogated and thrown into jail. He was not charged with anything, and he never would be charged with anything, but his life would be ruined.

Arar was flown out of the United States to Jordan and then driven to Syria, where he was kept like a nocturnal animal in an unlit, underground, rat-infested cell the size of a grave. From time to time he was tortured.

He wept. He begged not to be beaten anymore. He signed whatever confessions he was told to sign. He prayed.

Among the worst moments, he said, were the times he could hear babies crying in a nearby cell where women were imprisoned. He recalled hearing one woman pleading with a guard for several days for milk for her child.

He could hear other prisoners screaming as they were tortured.

,ÄúI used to ask God to help them,,Äù he said.

The Justice Department has alleged, without disclosing any evidence whatsoever, that Arar is a member of, or somehow linked to, al-Qaida. If that's so, how can the administration possibly allow him to roam free? The Syrians, who tortured him, have concluded that Arar is not linked in any way to terrorism.

And the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, a sometimes-clownish outfit that seems to have helped set this entire fiasco in motion by forwarding bad information to U.S. authorities, is being criticized heavily in Canada for failing to follow its own rules on the handling and dissemination of raw classified information.

Official documents in Canada suggest that Arar was never the target of a terror investigation there. One former Canadian official, commenting on the Arar case, was quoted in a local newspaper as saying ,Äúaccidents will happen,Äù in the war on terror.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7018521/site/newsweek/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999272/site/newsweek/

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=torture+US&btnG=Search+News