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Messages - Cramulus

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Principia Discussion / Re: A neophyte
« on: September 11, 2017, 01:09:09 pm »
Hi all,

I am here to find my way out of (into?) an existential crisis. I believe this is the only religion that has nothing to teach me, so naturally I am here to learn. I bought a copy of the Principia Discordia on Amazon because I was enjoying the parts I read online.

I'm kind of having a hard time with life right now, and interacting with Discordianism is making me feel a little better. Just wanted to say hi before I contribute anything.

Hi, welcome. The Principia has gotten me through some trash too. Glad you're feeling better-ish? let us know if we can help with the existential crisis.

really sorry to hear about your cat's penis

Apple Talk / Re: I'm in the Middle of a Lifelong Discordiential Crisis
« on: September 09, 2017, 07:43:35 pm »
I should delight in people being fooled; in believing nonsense, in being confused. But I don't.

I think that's more of a SubGenius thing - they don't necessarily care if the pinks get screwed, it's amusing to them to see a fool and his money go their separate ways

In My Discordia, the cabbages and grayfaces and shitheads are the victims of bureaucracy--and if we've actually found a personal route to salvation, we owe it to our neighbors to speak up about it

I'm not into making coleslaw

I want everybody in      my world         to be in   on the joke

The Holy Moment of Confusion
to me, is like
You thought you understood something
but now you recognize what a shithead you were
so you can see that 'understanding' is incomplete

Celebrate your OWN confusion, your OWN uncertainty.
It frees you from rigidity!~
It frees you from the psychological traps that surround Being Right

 "Some say he is a holy man. Others say he is a shithead."
         hearing this, the man was enlightened.

It used to be different. It used to be that people were victims of government propaganda. Today, we're the victims of our own. Anyone with a cause can make up some bullshit infographic that deceptively appeals to the emotions of a whole swath of idiots and the fucking thing will spread like wildfire on every social media platform in existence.

this is the big Power question

in the old days, power was hierarchically distributed - some sovereign had it, and if there was no sovereign, there was no law

then the revolutions came - revolutions are great at decapitating power, when it's concentrated.

then the power reorganized itself to be immune to popular revolution -- we got things like juries and democratic representation. Everybody has access to the market. Later, everybody can talk on the internet. The power was distributed to you and me. Which makes it immune to decapitation - to move power somewhere else, you have to break a lot of things that are protected for good reasons.

The world is made of groups, so you can't do much on your own. The individual is just a drop of water in the ocean.

But you can become part of a larger group, a wave, and create the momentum

whatever that means

What place does a Discordian have in this Brave New World?

it's not my place to say what Discordians' place is. There are a lot of 'suggestions' in the lit. We have this great fictional backstory which positions us as revolutionaries and harbingers and dancers of the Strange Times. (But now - revolution probably isn't what we used to think it was.) Some of lot of our spiritual heritage is a western iteration of the rinzai-school. Grand and Glory Old Discordjia's like a gnostic calling - it's your experience, it's not for me to say you're right or wrong.

I think the place is

to think about your relationship to the Chaos,
what you want it to be,
where you want to be in it...

to recognize what's real but actually fake
to see what's fake that's actually real

to let the transformative alchemy of laughter work on us, through us,
and then offer it up as sacrament in communion

take, eat,
this is my cat's penis

Bring and Brag / Deliver Me From Cool
« on: September 05, 2017, 04:26:00 pm »

Deliver me from Cool, from Cred, from Consensus

Deliver me from Slang, from Trends, from Hipness

Deliver me from the app everybody is using

Deliver me from the transcendental festival experience

Deliver me from New York--that shining city on the hill where dreams come true in movies

Deliver me from that thing on netflix thatís SO GOOD, you HAVE to watch it, itís AMAZING

Deliver me from Brooklyn, the beating heart of young and hot

Delver me from whatís going on this weekend, the primal chase of fox and hound

Deliver me from the dash, the feed, the stream

Deliver me from The Scene, from speaking in tongues, from stigmata

Deliver me from alchemical youth

Deliver me from the eroding fertile mud of the ravenous riverbank, that Jordan where we dredge up and baptize

Deliver me from grave robbing sepia-junkies and the Frankenstein monsters they build from childhood like block busting golems

From the magnetic congregation and the holy grail which connects cool and earth, please liberate me

From the tyrants and priests of power, please liberate me

For my profane alien heart, please liberate me

PD.COM: We're a self service death cult. Spike your own f'kin Koolaid.

Fuck it. I'm starting a death cult

If anybody wants in, let me know. We're gonna off ourselves at the same time on a Monday. Why Monday? So we can get in a good weekend before the finale. 

The only rule is that you have to kill yourself in a way that nobody's ever heard of. When people find our bodies, it'll really make their day.

So here's how I'm gonna go ---

I'm gonna glue living field mice all over my naked body, and then lay down in a room full of hungry eagles.

Bring and Brag / Re: A thing called "I"
« on: September 04, 2017, 02:27:32 pm »
How do I tell which is which?
If it courts belief then it's usually made up bullshit.

I'm struggling with this part

if it courts belief

it's made-up BS

I'm not sure, like, by "court belief" are we talking about things that seek "believers"?

climate change - the concept is made up, we made it up to explain what's going on

round earthers - always trying to convert people

can something be made-up BS but also True?

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Free Russian Orphans with Every Purchase
« on: August 31, 2017, 03:45:39 pm »
When Roger visited Boston, we actually crowbar'd you out of your office for an hour, which we spent at a bar.

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Free Russian Orphans with Every Purchase
« on: August 31, 2017, 12:37:03 pm »
It was really fun hanging with you and the wife in NYC, Hoops! You're one of these people from PD I've always wanted to meet in person.

Just reflecting on how many peedy cabal people I've met in person - man, it's been a loopy decade

Darth Cupcake *
Eve *
Triple Zero
Eater of Clowns
Badger of God
Pope Tom
Placid Dingo
and now Hoopla

* I knew them before they joined PD tho

I know I'm forgetting a few people...

but damn

Apple Talk / Re: Introductions, Part VI: Welcome to Our PD Party
« on: August 29, 2017, 01:54:37 pm »
Hey, I'm Qlip, I don't consider myself a Discordian, but I thought I'd hang out here for a bit. What lead me to this particular forum was that I made a friend through another friend, she was pretty cute and into Chaos Magick. I don't really truck with that, I myself am a lifelong Qabbalist, kind of on par with how I'm a guitarist, I can play Blackbird and the intro to Stairway to Heaven and that's all. So I stalked her for a bit on the social media, reading her reposted magick memes, all the while I got on with my life. I went on a half-year LSD trip, went clear, turned on to prog-folk, fell in love, and moved to the forest in Northern California.

Then she reposted a little excerpt called A ZEN STORY by somebody who billed himself The Count of Five Headmaster, Camp Meeker Cabal. I had just checked out a rental in Camp Meeker a few months ago. Looking more into the author of that piece, Camden Benares, it turns out he was the Postmaster of the little town I did end up in. Unfortunately he wasn't there when I signed up for my P.O. Box.  But, I did find a hobo mark on the post office fence post indicating this forum gave free handouts if you told a story.  Hi.

Hey new guy!
Woah! I had no idea what the Camp Meeker Cabal referred to - he was the postmaster for your town? that's crazy. I'm a big fan of Camden's book, Zen Without Zen Masters. If you dig up any other local Count of Fives stories, I would be dying to hear them.

There used to be a little qaballah contingent on this board - that cabal was nicknamed SSOOKN, but I can't recall what that stood for. LMNO, you must remember. This guy Mangrove (where IS mangrove, anyway??) actually taught me a bunch about Qaballah, and pointed me at the book Chicken Soup Qaballah, which seemed like a good introduction. ("It's all in your head, you just have no idea how big your head is." -- that line really sticks with me)

The board is a bit slow these days, but if you be pro-active and post some topics you want to discuss, people are sure to jump in. Anyway, welcome!

Bring and Brag / Re: A thing called "I"
« on: August 27, 2017, 10:32:31 pm »
beautifully written

I like how it suggests that the soul / conscious self is not something we're born with, it's something we can build in ourselves - and it takes continuous self-observation and struggle.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Vote! Trial and Error Party
« on: August 27, 2017, 02:32:34 pm »
Hegel knew there'd be days like this, there'd be days like this Hegel said (hegel said, hegel said)

see also --
 Bokonon's theory of dynamic tensions, "the equilibrium between good and evil" (47.3). (from Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle) The idea being that every movement requires two sets of muscles. One to move, the other to stop the movement. Movement is impossible without the opposition between these two forces.

"Papa" Monzano, he's so very bad
But without bad "Papa" I would be so sad;
Because without "Papa's" badness,
Tell me, if you would,
How could wicked old Bokonon
Ever, ever look good?

Apple Talk / Re: Spagbook
« on: August 26, 2017, 02:37:32 am »

Cramulus and Hoopla hang out in NYC

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: August 25, 2017, 02:37:15 pm »
In zen-buddhist texts, sometimes you hear these descriptions of the masters, how they have this way about them... you can recognize that they really know something. You can see it in their movements, in everything they say. (As an aside, I think Bob Ross is like that. In his motions and gestures, his words and tone of voice, you can see his self-mastery)

I want to mention my impression of one of the group leaders, an older woman. She had this presence .. it's hard to describe.  She heard everyone's questions, could sense the root curiosity or confusion that informed that question.. and was able to speak to what you were really asking. When she talked, she really connected with you. Her voice was clear. Her ideas were focused. When she moved her hands, it emphasized exactly the right things. She grabbed your attention and held it tight. I connected with everything she said.

This woman -- there was just something about the way she talked, the way she moved her hands... I could tell she was conscious, she was on, she was here right now. Completely focused, completely awake. Every time she spoke, she spoke perfectly.

They are careful, in these groups, not to present the Work as a path to a bunch of super powers and enlightenment. They emphasize that doing all these exercises won't make you permanently awake, but it might give you the possibility of awakening. It's about climbing the tree, not eating the fruit.

But seeing this woman talk -- it showed me that for some people, there is a remarkable payoff. When somebody has a higher level of "being" like that, you can feel it. It made me realize how distracted I am all the time, how sometimes when you're talking to me, my mind is elsewhere. I'm running a million programs at once. They're all taking a little bit of energy, and so in any given moment, each of my processes is in a low energy state. It's hard to describe.. but just interacting with this woman made me understand Being a little bit better. She's here and now. I could be too.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Reality Safari: Gurdjieff
« on: August 25, 2017, 02:21:18 pm »
Reading and Exchange

Last night I went to a "Reading and Exchange" - it was a room of ~25 people. Two of them were from the group I had attended earlier this summer. The group leaders were three people I'd never met before.

The readings were about "coming into being". One of them discussed the relationship between the "physical body" and the "psychic body". The physical body basically only knows a few things - hunger, fatigue, sex...  That's all it can 'think' of, it has nothing else. When our psychic bodies desire something, we have to harness our force of will to find it. The physical body steals some of this energy. We get distracted--our bodies want to know what's for dinner. Part of the Work is to tame the body, make it obey the mind.

That's why Gurdjieff recommends picking a habit or behavioral pattern - something small - and working against it. Deny yourself your daily fudge sundae. Observe how the body responds, how it pulls harder on your energy, how it becomes more distracting. How easy it is to fall back into this habit!

The body can even outsource its desires to your intellectual and emotional centers. There is an emotional need to smoke that cigarette. Your mind will rationalize why it's okay this one time.

Also notice---these impulses and decisions aren't actually choices you're making, they're just happening. Your intellect and emotions have the same kind of autopilot as the body.

As you struggle against physical habits and temptations, you will slowly develop (like a weak muscle growing in strength through exercise) a watcher, a third force which observes the desire, and the will, and is capable of moderating both.

This "third force" is conscious energy. It only appears for a flicker of a moment. It's like a gift.

I'm reminded of having arguments with a loved one, and then going for a long walk to cool down... I'm repeating my arguments in my head, I'm fantasizing about how I'll come back and win the fight, I'm dwelling on how wrong the other person is. Eventually, this antagonistic energy gets exhausted. And in this moment of quiet, maybe I'm able to recognize how I was wrong, and how we can compromise. That's the third force.

Part of the Work is teaching yourself to be prepared for this moment. It's hard to force it, it seems like it just falls into your lap when you're ready. And if you're not sensitive to it, you can miss it entirely. You have to be ready to receive that gift.

On fighting against habits -- they emphasized that it's important to actually do these exercises - it's not enough to read about it. Reading a million books about this stuff doesn't make you an expert. Talking about it a lot doesn't make you any more conscious. Only continuous effort, over a long period of time, gives you the possibility of developing this conscious body.

Reconciling the Incongruities-- or not

Someone at the group asked -- "Here, you talked about a physical body and a psychic body -- how do we reconcile that with the other models of the self you've given us? three centers, five centers, seven centers... today you only talk about two parts. How does it fit together?"  -- that's one of the things I keep noticing about the Gurdjieff work. It's full of contradictions. Sometimes he talks about three centers, sometimes five. Sometimes he talks about sexual energy as a part of the body, sometimes he puts it somewhere else...

One of the group leaders responded -- "I wonder what part of you wants to make it all fit together?"

Throughout In Search of the Miraculous, Gurdjieff's disciple Ouspensky tries to pin down the "science" of awakening, he wants to reconcile the contradictions and draw up a complete model. What I learned last night at the meeting was that this isn't important. It might be that the incongruity is actually built into it to keep it from becoming a "known quantity". Once you "understand" it, you don't give it any more thought. ("a conclusion is just where you stopped thinking")

But it's the seeking part of us, the part that wants to understand things, that needs to be recognized and nourished. That part of us can help us create the "third force" in ourselves. The incongruity keeps the mind working. (I'm reminded of the Crowley essay, "The Soldier and the Hunchback")

I had a really tough day yesterday, my mind was a firestorm. But I calmed down and made myself sensitive to the third force. And eventually, it came, and showed me the path between scylla and charibdis.

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: The Spirit World of Ideas
« on: August 24, 2017, 04:49:41 pm »

For years, I've been trying to find the most most parsimonious way of expressing the idea at the top of this thread.

something that comes to mind

think about the life cycle of a joke, in terms of natural selection

---it starts as an amusing thought
---somebody shares it verbally and people laugh. The laughter is a reward to the person who spake it, it makes it more likely for the joke to be shared
---maybe one of the people who hears the joke has a better way to phrase it - this version of the joke has a reproductive advantage over the base form

---jokes get better at reproducing (read: funner) using the same iterative process as Darwin described.
---Like a species of animal, jokes adapt to changes in their environment (for example, anti-Trump jokes have certain reproductive advantages right now)
---The dynamic human mind is the space in which the "genetic code" of a joke mutates, gaining different properties and likelihood of reproduction
---Notice that when we talk about the "reproductive cycle of a joke", the human is the environment that the joke lives in. Like a tree whose fruits fall to the ground, fruits/jokes with certain properties are more likely to be eaten by animals and pooped out somewhere else.

Bring and Brag / Re: WEIRDOVERSE
« on: August 24, 2017, 04:16:47 pm »

Much of this thread is gonna get stapled to telephone poles in my neighborhood next week.

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