DM/Player Ownage

[Doktor Howl]

Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!

Okay.

YOU DM it.

[Freeky]

Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!

Okay.

YOU DM it.

I just might, at that.

Freeky,
Well, you SAID you wanted me to do a homebrew...

[Doktor Howl]

Yeah. I agree with most of those, with one exception. CE guy wants to run an aquatic campaign, and I still can't wait for him to start so I can join in as a lizardfolk bard and be a lounge lizard. Sing "love boat" all game long.

Have fun with the 3D battlemat.   

Psh.  You see difficulty, I see OPPORTUNITY!

Okay.

YOU DM it.

I just might, at that.

Freeky,
Well, you SAID you wanted me to do a homebrew...

muhaha

[Cain]

I like playing chaotic neutral 

But then again, I can play it to actual type, and not "I'm a loony/I can do anything I want".  I also find it amazing how many people think CN/any evil alignement means "sticking it to the other players constantly".  Sure, if you rolled 3 on INT and WIS, maybe.  Even evil people are going to make exceptions for their buddies, it's just good roleplaying to remember that.  It also makes for a terrible playing experience.

I'm especially amazed by people who think Chaotic Evil means "be a complete monster".  You can play a smart, suave, urbane and sophisticated CE evil character who doesn't giggle while slitting people's throats or eating their eyes, you know.  Jonathan Teatime from The Hogfather comes to mind.  Or Marlo Stanfield from The Wire.

The other problem is, of course, people don't realise alignment is meant to give flavour to a character, not define their every action.

[President Television]

I like playing chaotic neutral 

But then again, I can play it to actual type, and not "I'm a loony/I can do anything I want".  I also find it amazing how many people think CN/any evil alignement means "sticking it to the other players constantly".  Sure, if you rolled 3 on INT and WIS, maybe.  Even evil people are going to make exceptions for their buddies, it's just good roleplaying to remember that.  It also makes for a terrible playing experience.

I'm especially amazed by people who think Chaotic Evil means "be a complete monster".  You can play a smart, suave, urbane and sophisticated CE evil character who doesn't giggle while slitting people's throats or eating their eyes, you know.  Jonathan Teatime from The Hogfather comes to mind.  Or Marlo Stanfield from The Wire.

The other problem is, of course, people don't realise alignment is meant to give flavour to a character, not define their every action.

Well said. In another game that I'm in, I'm playing a rough analogue of Herbert West, and I chose chaotic neutral as my alignment, not because I wanted to be wacky and zany, but because I honestly think that's the most accurate classification for him. He could be true neutral for his single-minded pursuit of science and total lack of regard for the consequences, but I think his improvisational style of experimentation and extremely unethical practices place him squarely in the chaotic end of the law-chaos spectrum. I keep making chaotic neutral characters, but that's more because the most interesting concepts I can come up with are always unprincipled and morally ambiguous, willing to do whatever is necessary and resentful of authority. I enjoy playing the unfettered archetype.

I think the best way I've seen it put is that the behaviour of a character should dictate alignment, and not the other way around.

[Triple Zero]

3 weeks back we had a reunion with my old roleplaying group, apart from hopefully restarting the campaign again, very nice to see my old buddies again, everybody kinda lost touch after my flatmate moved out (after the fire), as our place was sort of the hub where we'd meet. Funny how that works cause my flatmate moved in with one of the other guys and that didn't turn into a hub. Ah well.

Anyway I had passed the DM of the group some links to PathFinder some months back, cause I heard some good things about it here on PD. We used to play 3.0/3.5 (with a very short initial period of 2.0, even) so I figured the transition would be easier than to 4th ed. and all the rules are open and for free so that's nice. He still bought the books though--with his job as a psychiatrist (gonna work with the criminally insane, even!) he can spare the money--OTOH I should probably at least get the Player's Manual cause it's nicer than looking through a PDF on a laptop.

It was a bit chaotic for the first time, everybody getting used to (somewhat) new rules and I had to select spells for my character (Wiz 9) about 1/3rd through because the first part was very much railroading (annoying because it wasn't entirely clear so at some point I just stopped trying to come up with creative reactions to the situation) picked up from where we left off years ago, as good as we remembered [funny how much we still knew, including the erroneous description of the monster we had been battling], right away pretty much killing the party with an earthquake collapse in the Underdark ("no you didn't have Stoneshape memorized"--"I went into the Underdark, right, must have slipped my mind!!").
This railroading was so we could reappear in some sort of plane of Hell, where we met an old party member (played by the guy who just kept killing off his chars, the rest of the team has been the same since level 1). Though this particular incarnation of him was my favourite anyway so that's good--just that he's a sort-of vampire and the Cleric and the Elf don't like that very much. Which is actually how he got killed, got on fire during a battle and me screaming for water to put him out, the Elf handed me a bottle of holy water ... Which reminds me, my character still needs to get revenge for that "prank" (unfortunately the Elf's player doesn't handle being fucked with very well).
Anyway, at some point I had to just select a bunch of spells from some other (dead) wizard's spellbook cause I had lost mine (it's still with my crushed corpse in the Underdark). I don't think a wizard can just use another one's spellbook like that, but we were clearly winging it or something. So then I got the message my wizard turned into an Evoker during the down time (?? has been a universalist, always, even though he liked fireballs and splosions, but everybody like those right). I think I'm going to get back to the DM about that one next time because I don't like having forbidden schools. Selecting those spells took some time from being involved in the game (the rest continued, but I really can't pay attention to two things at once as well anymore, very stressful).

BTW that reminds me, the Pathfinder spell list is slightly different from the 3.0 and 3.5 ones. I'm fairly sure I could argue to just redo the selection for next time (hopefully including no longer being an Evoker). Oh and did I mention I had to select at least one fire-related spell on each level (cause the dead wizard was crazy about fire) and that all the spells regarding teleporting and planar travel and dealing with Outsiders had been ripped out (safety precaution from whatever Hell dwellers got him) including Dimension Door boooo. Actually considering it like this, it really sucks and he pretty much crippled my character. Anyway, anyone got a good list of what are the no-brainer need-to-have spells for levels 1 to 5 in Pathfinder? I think I got most, but it's always good to hear about.

After being told it's Pathfinder "book" rules only (no 3rd party, with a grand total of 5 house rules handed to them, clearly written), the question "Yeah, but can I play this one badass class from this cool 3rd party 3.5 supplement?"  (bye)

you probably told me before, but I really wonder what these house rules are?

[Doktor Howl]

you probably told me before, but I really wonder what these house rules are?

1.  You don't threaten the squares behind you unless you for any reason cannot be flanked.

2.  When leveling up, you may either roll your hit die or take the average (rounding up on odd levels, down on even levels).  So a fighter, for example, starts with 10 HP at first level (plus whatever bonuses), and can either roll a d10 at second level or take 5.5 HP rounded down to 5.  At third level he may roll a d10 or take 5.5 rounded up to 6.

3.  Optional rules in use:  Point buy required (20 points), medium experience track.  Crit cards and fumble cards are in play.  Crit cards are not used on called shots.  All optional rules from all books are in play as is, except for partial armor (modified so that partial armor arm & leg pieces must be one catagory lighter than the base armor), Magic Words (not in play at all), Hero Points (not in play at all), and firearms & the gunslinger class(depends on campaign, but primitive firearms only at best).  If the PCs can do something, so can the bad guys.  Any number of free actions may be taken in a round, but you cannot do the same free action twice.

4.  Table rules:  A die rolled off the table is re-rolled.  No player may conceal a roll.  Palm-rolling gets you slapped.  No touching each others' dice (fucking with someone's dice makes it legal for them to slap you).  No moving anyone else's figure on the table.  Figures must be moved from place to place through the individual squares the PC is actually travelling through.

5.  The perception check penalty for listening through doors, etc is equal to the hardness of what it's made out of...A wooden door has a penalty of -5, stone -8, iron -10, etc. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This thread makes me wish I played.

[Cain]

Same.  I think the nearest person who I know who plays RPGs is Demolition Squid, though.

Not that I'd have the time for gaming with my current lifestyle anyway.  Unless game night was in the middle of the week.

[Triple Zero]

1.  You don't threaten the squares behind you unless you for any reason cannot be flanked.

I need to play a few battles before I can fully imagine the flanking rule (sigh, it's been years...). It makes sense from a realism POV and I recall people joking about "yeah apparently characters have 360 vision in combat situations" [according to the standard rules]. It's about that, right? I suppose you determine what is "behind" depending on the figure's orientation, so they'd have to place them clearly facing one of 8 directions? (or 4?). Does this change combat much, or is it just a minor adjustment to a rule that indeed implies characters have eyes in the back of their heads?

4.  Table rules:  A die rolled off the table is re-rolled.  No player may conceal a roll.  Palm-rolling gets you slapped.  No touching each others' dice (fucking with someone's dice makes it legal for them to slap you).  No moving anyone else's figure on the table.  Figures must be moved from place to place through the individual squares the PC is actually travelling through.

I especially like the bit about having to move/slide the figures through all the squares. I'm assuming it's so that nobody can claim they didn't pass a certain square if they trigger a trap or something? (which would ruin the trap if you'd allow it because now its location is known)

Do you use miniatures for every combat situation, or just the major ones?

3.  Optional rules in use:  Point buy required (20 points), medium experience track.  Crit cards and fumble cards are in play.  Crit cards are not used on called shots.  All optional rules from all books are in play as is, except for partial armor (modified so that partial armor arm & leg pieces must be one catagory lighter than the base armor), Magic Words (not in play at all), Hero Points (not in play at all), and firearms & the gunslinger class(depends on campaign, but primitive firearms only at best).  If the PCs can do something, so can the bad guys.  Any number of free actions may be taken in a round, but you cannot do the same free action twice.

Wow, seems I really need to dig through those Pathfinder online manuals. Point Buy is that you can distribute your ability scores with a point system, instead of rolling dice, right?

I never heard about called shots before, but they seem interesting from what I read in the manual.

I can't find what "crit cards" and "fumble cards" are, though?

The Words of Power, I must read up on. Seems interesting but complex and possibly overpowered.

I can imagine the Hero Points conflicting with the "if the PCs can, so can the NPCs" rule. One of the player asked about these last session. I don't think I like it. Especially awarding it for "heroic feats" smells like playing favourites too easily (or players feeling this is the case when it isn't). Except for the Elixir of Luck potion. That one's pretty cool and one could use it without using Hero points anywhere else in the campaign.

Seems like I should really dig into these new rules I didn't think so much had changed (or added, actually) vs 3.5

5.  The perception check penalty for listening through doors, etc is equal to the hardness of what it's made out of...A wooden door has a penalty of -5, stone -8, iron -10, etc.

Simple and elegant solution. It surprises me they don't have a rule like this, actually.

[Freeky]

A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Called shots are dumb if you don't have the piecemeal armor rule in play.   

I've wanted to test drive the words of power system for a while now, just no opportunity yet.

[Doktor Howl]

A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Nope.  They're right on Paizo's website, under "Gamemastery".

Called shots are dumb if you don't have the piecemeal armor rule in play.   

I've wanted to test drive the words of power system for a while now, just no opportunity yet.

1.  Piecemeal armor IS in play, I just nerfbatted it a bit.

2.  Not any time soon.

[Doktor Howl]

1.  You don't threaten the squares behind you unless you for any reason cannot be flanked.

I need to play a few battles before I can fully imagine the flanking rule (sigh, it's been years...). It makes sense from a realism POV and I recall people joking about "yeah apparently characters have 360 vision in combat situations" [according to the standard rules]. It's about that, right? I suppose you determine what is "behind" depending on the figure's orientation, so they'd have to place them clearly facing one of 8 directions? (or 4?). Does this change combat much, or is it just a minor adjustment to a rule that indeed implies characters have eyes in the back of their heads?

It changes it more than you'd suspect.

4.  Table rules:  A die rolled off the table is re-rolled.  No player may conceal a roll.  Palm-rolling gets you slapped.  No touching each others' dice (fucking with someone's dice makes it legal for them to slap you).  No moving anyone else's figure on the table.  Figures must be moved from place to place through the individual squares the PC is actually travelling through.

I especially like the bit about having to move/slide the figures through all the squares. I'm assuming it's so that nobody can claim they didn't pass a certain square if they trigger a trap or something? (which would ruin the trap if you'd allow it because now its location is known)

Do you use miniatures for every combat situation, or just the major ones?

Every one.

3.  Optional rules in use:  Point buy required (20 points), medium experience track.  Crit cards and fumble cards are in play.  Crit cards are not used on called shots.  All optional rules from all books are in play as is, except for partial armor (modified so that partial armor arm & leg pieces must be one catagory lighter than the base armor), Magic Words (not in play at all), Hero Points (not in play at all), and firearms & the gunslinger class(depends on campaign, but primitive firearms only at best).  If the PCs can do something, so can the bad guys.  Any number of free actions may be taken in a round, but you cannot do the same free action twice.

Wow, seems I really need to dig through those Pathfinder online manuals. Point Buy is that you can distribute your ability scores with a point system, instead of rolling dice, right?

5.  The perception check penalty for listening through doors, etc is equal to the hardness of what it's made out of...A wooden door has a penalty of -5, stone -8, iron -10, etc.

Simple and elegant solution. It surprises me they don't have a rule like this, actually.

Yeah, the flat -5 penalty just seems a little UNDER complicated.

[Triple Zero]

A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Nope.  They're right on Paizo's website, under "Gamemastery".

This one? http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ Cause I can't find them anywhere, got a link for me?

[Doktor Howl]

A fig only faces four directions in Pathfinder, it's based on a square system instead of hex.  I guess you could technically play on hexes, but it screws with movement rules.

Crit and fumble decks are third party made, I think.

Nope.  They're right on Paizo's website, under "Gamemastery".

This one? http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ Cause I can't find them anywhere, got a link for me?

I can't see paizo from here.  I'll post a link when I get home.