Why I'm not an Atheist

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm an gnostic agnostic.

GODS?  WHO NEEDS 'EM?

People who think that their ability to do nice things derives from some cosmic wristslapper.

MISSING THE FUCKING POINT.

The ENTIRE basis of Judeo/Christian beliefs is FREE WILL.  It's the whole Goddamn point of the exercise.  You do good works because you WANT to, and in the end you are judged on the intentions you had behind the acts driven by your free will...And free will used specifically to gain stature, etc, DON'T COUNT.  MML&J was very clear on that point, as was Acts I & II, and most of the friggin' Torah and Talmud.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think its funny that some people think Earth would fall into a state of savagery without a god telling us which choices to make, and then applying free will to those, with the implication that without gods to tell them what is nice and what is not nice, they themselves would choose to behave in completely self-serving, non-altruistic ways. It's an admission that they're closet sociopaths.

Sorry was talking about that sort of person, not you.  My bad.

No probs, the misinterpretation was mine.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So I was raised as a crazy JW... at the age of 6, I was hospitalized with a kidney problem. I had an operation with no blood transfusion permitted. In the days following the operation, the Doctor said that my blood count was dangerously low and that without a transfusion I may die. My parents refused and I recall vividly, crying and telling the Doctor that I would die faithful to Jehovah and 'please don't give me blood'. That, among many other experiences should probably have made me a screaming atheist. It didn't. After I left the JW's, I became a pagan, studied Wicca and was looking at initiation... but I couldn't get past the obvious BS involved in that. I bounced around several systems, and fortunately for me, I read the PD and it all suddenly became completely clear. That was followed up by Quantum Psychology, Angel Tech, Prometheus Rising etc and it led me to the position I now hold. Which basically boils down to 'I don't know, you don't know... but these moldy old books and scrolls are full of contradictions, errors and outright lies... therefore, we can discount them.

Everything else, seems pretty easily explainable by God being a Crazy Woman. 

As for the believers, I figure they can believe what they want, its all about embracing their nonsense, as well as the scientific sense

Holy shit. I knew you were a JW but that's some fucked up shit.

Some of the most fucked up experiences I recall though were the people at the door. My parents and I were doing the door knocking thing one Saturday. My mom was about 6 months pregnant. The lady at the door was very rude and told us to leave. My mom smiled and said "OK, well have a nice day." The lady came flying out of the door screaming "I WILL NOT HAVE A GOOD DAY" and then pushed my mom off of the porch. My dad was about three or four steps down and caught her before she bounced down the stairs. We quickly headed back to the car. Then the woman's husband came out of the barn with a corn cutter and started chasing us, waving it around. We got into the car and he began hitting the tr4unk of the car with the cutter screaming and yelling.

They were well known as very good Christians.

Another time, I was in the car and a teenage girl with her mom were walking up to the door. Before they could get there, the man opened the door, released a doberman and shut the door. They tried running back to the car, but the girl got attacked and by the time the men in the car got her free we had to take her to the hospital and her face was scarred for the rest of her life.

He was a lay preacher for one of the local churches.

I think its difficult to decide which is worse, parents risking the life of their kids because of some idiot belief, or people so violently opposed to a different religion that they would risk harming or killing people over it.

[Ben Shapiro]

I'm an gnostic agnostic.

GODS?  WHO NEEDS 'EM?

People who think that their ability to do nice things derives from some cosmic wristslapper.

MISSING THE FUCKING POINT.

The ENTIRE basis of Judeo/Christian beliefs is FREE WILL.  It's the whole Goddamn point of the exercise.  You do good works because you WANT to, and in the end you are judged on the intentions you had behind the acts driven by your free will...And free will used specifically to gain stature, etc, DON'T COUNT.  MML&J was very clear on that point, as was Acts I & II, and most of the friggin' Torah and Talmud.

Basically you can't lie, or buy your way into heaven.

[LMNO]

I have a feeling of something to say, but I'm not sure if it relates to the OP.

Unsure if a new post is required.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I have a feeling of something to say, but I'm not sure if it relates to the OP.

Unsure if a new post is required.

I think Rat's posts alone deserve their own thread.

Not only because he had to face death by choice because of faith (albeit, as a child) but because JW's apparently are treated extremely badly by outsiders. Honestly, I didn't know it could get that bad. I always thought at worst it was a "fuck off assbag" sort of deal.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I have a feeling of something to say, but I'm not sure if it relates to the OP.

Unsure if a new post is required.

Give it a shot!

[LMNO]

Ok.  Gonna need a bit.

[LMNO]

Actually, this captures it pretty well.

[hooplala]

Actually, this captures it pretty well.

This also touches on a point of many religions which needles me, this idea that this world is simply a vale of tears to be suffered through, and that TRUE life begins after you're dead.  I mean, shit, i don't know what happens when someone dies, but I know what happens when they lose a part of their brain.  They become fundamentally different people.  Pretty much instantly.

Eating can turn people into different people.  Scrooge knew that, over a hundred and fifty years ago. 

So, this idea that we have some core "me" which can survive after the brain dies... once you know that, there is no turning back.  Death isn't a something, like LMNO's quoted play said.  It's the nothing.

It bothers me that so many people are effectively wasting their lives, thinking that something better will come after, when the likelihood that nothing at all comes after is staggering.  I know it's their life, and they can waste it if they want to, but dammit... I care about those stupid fuckers.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So, this idea that we have some core "me" which can survive after the brain dies... once you know that, there is no turning back.  Death isn't a something, like LMNO's quoted play said.  It's the nothing.

Assumes facts not in evidence.  The hypothesis is not testable.

However, given that we don't know, the only rational behavior is to have as much fun here and now as circumstances may allow.

[hooplala]

So, this idea that we have some core "me" which can survive after the brain dies... once you know that, there is no turning back.  Death isn't a something, like LMNO's quoted play said.  It's the nothing.

Assumes facts not in evidence.  The hypothesis is not testable.

However, given that we don't know, the only rational behavior is to have as much fun here and now as circumstances may allow.

If you mean that the core "me" dying with the brain is untestable, I'd point to studies of people with severe brain trauma.  They become completely different people, often disgusted by who they were before.  That seems reasonably to indicate that who we are is largely based on our genetics and the chemicals flowing through our brain, doesn't it?  Or am I misreading your point?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So, this idea that we have some core "me" which can survive after the brain dies... once you know that, there is no turning back.  Death isn't a something, like LMNO's quoted play said.  It's the nothing.

Assumes facts not in evidence.  The hypothesis is not testable.

However, given that we don't know, the only rational behavior is to have as much fun here and now as circumstances may allow.

If you mean that the core "me" dying with the brain is untestable, I'd point to studies of people with severe brain trauma.  They become completely different people, often disgusted by who they were before.  That seems reasonably to indicate that who we are is largely based on our genetics and the chemicals flowing through our brain, doesn't it?  Or am I misreading your point?

Saying a "soul" can't change is to accept the concept of original sin, which is the lazy man's way of getting out of rolling in the gutter like the rest of us.

[LMNO]

Your little-a agnosticism runs deep, Roger.

[hooplala]

So, this idea that we have some core "me" which can survive after the brain dies... once you know that, there is no turning back.  Death isn't a something, like LMNO's quoted play said.  It's the nothing.

Assumes facts not in evidence.  The hypothesis is not testable.

However, given that we don't know, the only rational behavior is to have as much fun here and now as circumstances may allow.

If you mean that the core "me" dying with the brain is untestable, I'd point to studies of people with severe brain trauma.  They become completely different people, often disgusted by who they were before.  That seems reasonably to indicate that who we are is largely based on our genetics and the chemicals flowing through our brain, doesn't it?  Or am I misreading your point?

Saying a "soul" can't change is to accept the concept of original sin, which is the lazy man's way of getting out of rolling in the gutter like the rest of us.

Where did I say a soul can't change?  I thought I was refuting the very notion of a soul.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Your little-a agnosticism runs deep, Roger.

I'm just saying, you know, if you can't observe an outside experiment without changing the results, how can you possibly examine yourself without changing yourself?  You can't tell if there's a soul in there without opening the box, right?  And when you open the box, you either know...or you stop existing.  But here's the kicker:  Only you get to see the answer.  Everyone has to do the experiment for themselves, sooner or later.

I propose an experiment, LMNO.  You put me in a box with a bottle of bourbon for one hour, without looking in the box.  After an hour, fuck off, I'm drunk. 

See?  It's all about SCIENCE and it's utter inapplicability to religious questions.  And VICE-VERSA.  Oil & friggin' water.  You can't take your God detector instrument to a no-God zone to zero it, after all.  So I fail to see any difference between the idiots trying to "scientifically prove" God's existence, and those who try to use science to disprove his/her existence, because the two do not touch at any point.

It is perfectly possible for science to be right in all things, and to explain all things, without having any implications on the existence or non-existence of a god.