Author Topic: Mommy Shaming  (Read 42620 times)

Nephew Twiddleton

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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #165 on: November 19, 2013, 05:02:52 am »
Twid, you're the bestest <3

GA, stick to white knighting for holist, I'm good.

I'll go for bester. Bestest is a lot to live up to.

To be fair, I'm pretty liberal with my superlatives.

As long as it's not Most Bestissimus, I think we can reach common ground.
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #166 on: November 19, 2013, 05:36:57 am »
It comes down to this:  What kind of world do you want?

One with 10 billion people in it?

One with 2 or 3 billion people in it?




What kind of people? If you know what I mean. 10 Billion because I'm a horrible bastard.

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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #167 on: November 19, 2013, 05:38:28 am »
It comes down to this:  What kind of world do you want?

One with 10 billion people in it?

One with 2 or 3 billion people in it?




What kind of people? If you know what I mean. 10 Billion because I'm a horrible bastard.

Houston breeds masochists, obviously...
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #168 on: November 19, 2013, 05:39:51 am »
You know, this last bit got me thinking, and I realized that - despite several chances to do so - holist has never "daddy shamed".

I wonder why that is?

Men are savages with no feelings?

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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #169 on: November 19, 2013, 05:47:57 am »
You know, this last bit got me thinking, and I realized that - despite several chances to do so - holist has never "daddy shamed".

I wonder why that is?

Men are savages with no feelings?

We are savages with feelings.
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #170 on: November 19, 2013, 06:14:43 am »
GA, stick to white knighting for holist, I'm good.

You don't want me to use other's interactions with you as illustrations for rhetorical points. That's fair, and I'll respect that.

It's the bolded bit that gets to me. My direct interaction with holist in this thread so far as been:

Dear Holist:

Fuck you.

I don't really feel like sharing it with you, because you'll probably call me and my loved ones "sorry losers."

plus this comment:

On the other hand, I don't like holist very much.

I feel that those statements are 1) straightforward, and 2) strongly characterize my relationship with holist in this thread as antagonistic. Given later ambiguous input, they would strongly influence interpretation of that ambiguity towards one consistent with an antagonistic relationship. I don't find it plausible that you honestly believe I'm trying to champion holist.

Which begs the question of why you'd type that out. The most generous interpretation I have is that I crossed an extremely important line, and you wanted to shock me into paying attention. Least generous is that you wanted to wound me, and accuracy be damned as long as it was hurtful - but that's not consistent with earlier observations of you being generally reasonable, thoughtful, and of not being suddenly and spontaneously spiteful.

The intermediate position is that you wanted position me closer to holist in social space and distance yourself from me. As holist is wildly and deservedly unpopular at the moment, this would weaken my social standing, and to the extent that I am not part of whatever in-group you are moving towards, strengthen yours. That's behavior I associate with people insecure in their standing in an important group, which, again, is not consistent with earlier observations of you. I read the bulk of your interactions with other established members as indicative of a confident peer-to-peer relationship, and from others get the impression that you're generally well respected. You could have not posted that and been fine. Apart from holist and arguably that one comment from Roger, no one's been attacking you in this thread; to the contrary, the entire thread up to the point when I used impact font was the board broadly telling holist that trying to make mothers feel guilty about their children was misogynistic and unacceptable. So I'm not aware of anything that would cause you to suddenly start feeling insecure or otherwise begin to act out of character, which means that I have a hard time taking the intermediate position either.

Usually when I fail to understand something to this extent, it means that there's a massive amount of context I'm ignoring?
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #171 on: November 19, 2013, 06:23:25 am »
GA, stick to white knighting for holist, I'm good.

You don't want me to use other's interactions with you as illustrations for rhetorical points. That's fair, and I'll respect that.

It's the bolded bit that gets to me. My direct interaction with holist in this thread so far as been:

Dear Holist:

Fuck you.

I don't really feel like sharing it with you, because you'll probably call me and my loved ones "sorry losers."

plus this comment:

On the other hand, I don't like holist very much.

I feel that those statements are 1) straightforward, and 2) strongly characterize my relationship with holist in this thread as antagonistic. Given later ambiguous input, they would strongly influence interpretation of that ambiguity towards one consistent with an antagonistic relationship. I don't find it plausible that you honestly believe I'm trying to champion holist.

Which begs the question of why you'd type that out. The most generous interpretation I have is that I crossed an extremely important line, and you wanted to shock me into paying attention. Least generous is that you wanted to wound me, and accuracy be damned as long as it was hurtful - but that's not consistent with earlier observations of you being generally reasonable, thoughtful, and of not being suddenly and spontaneously spiteful.

The intermediate position is that you wanted position me closer to holist in social space and distance yourself from me. As holist is wildly and deservedly unpopular at the moment, this would weaken my social standing, and to the extent that I am not part of whatever in-group you are moving towards, strengthen yours. That's behavior I associate with people insecure in their standing in an important group, which, again, is not consistent with earlier observations of you. I read the bulk of your interactions with other established members as indicative of a confident peer-to-peer relationship, and from others get the impression that you're generally well respected. You could have not posted that and been fine. Apart from holist and arguably that one comment from Roger, no one's been attacking you in this thread; to the contrary, the entire thread up to the point when I used impact font was the board broadly telling holist that trying to make mothers feel guilty about their children was misogynistic and unacceptable. So I'm not aware of anything that would cause you to suddenly start feeling insecure or otherwise begin to act out of character, which means that I have a hard time taking the intermediate position either.

Usually when I fail to understand something to this extent, it means that there's a massive amount of context I'm ignoring?

Or it could be that you're reading too much into it after your points have already become tedious and untenable.
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #172 on: November 19, 2013, 06:25:19 am »
Here, this is a better example:

It is another form of mommy shaming. You don't know what led to them having a bigger family, and being a judgey concern troll about it isn't something to be proud of.

Birthrates in the US are well below replacement levels, even with some people having "more than their share."

You know, I just can't see myself ever sticking up for QG again.

DOUR,
Judgey Concern Troll

If you approached this with the right wrong maximally uncharitable frame of mind, and for whatever reason are compelled to throw in allegations of sexism you have prior evidence to believe are untrue, you might read that response as:

Quote
Attention weak and vulnerable female:

You appear to not be in total solidarity with tribal doctrine, as exemplified by the opinions currently held by Largest And Hairiest Male Ape-Man-Yeti-Thing Around. You will cease this at once, and return to only speaking supportively of the Largest And Hairiest Male Ape-Man-Yeti-Thing Around. Otherwise, when, not if, weak and vulnerable female next runs into trouble, Largest And Hairiest Male Ape-Man-Yeti-Thing Around might not extend his aegis of iron-haired protection to her. Largest And Hairiest Male Ape-Man-Yeti-Thing Around is stating this out loud as a warning to any other weak and vulnerable females who might be thinking of stepping.

Ook, ook ook.

You'd have to go through some mental gymnastics and willfully forget a lot of things to arrive at that interpretation, but you could do it if you were sufficiently motivated. I don't know why anybody would, though.



What about my points?

BUMP
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #173 on: November 19, 2013, 06:55:45 am »
Anyway, the point I was making was that within Holist's conditions, having that amount of children is in fact a bit shocking on a few different levels, and I don't feel like I am shaming him or the missus by pointing it out. I really want to know what the rationale behind it was, because they clearly have access to birth control in the UK, don't really need to have more than 2 or 3 children from a survival angle, and unless Holist has pound sterling shooting out of his asshole, those children actually compete for resources rather than benefit by it. I mean, I could be wrong. Holist might well be a rich motherfucker who can support a large number of children and spread relative, Western, economic comfort equally among them.

They're from 2 or 3 different mothers, if I'm not mistaken. Most likely the burden of supporting them has fallen primarily on the mothers.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #174 on: November 19, 2013, 06:57:24 am »
Anyway, the point I was making was that within Holist's conditions, having that amount of children is in fact a bit shocking on a few different levels, and I don't feel like I am shaming him or the missus by pointing it out. I really want to know what the rationale behind it was, because they clearly have access to birth control in the UK, don't really need to have more than 2 or 3 children from a survival angle, and unless Holist has pound sterling shooting out of his asshole, those children actually compete for resources rather than benefit by it. I mean, I could be wrong. Holist might well be a rich motherfucker who can support a large number of children and spread relative, Western, economic comfort equally among them.

I think they live in Hungary or some other 3rd world country, not the UK. If I recall, they tried moving to the UK a year or so ago, and they couldn't hack it so they moved back to the jungle or wherever.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #175 on: November 19, 2013, 07:01:27 am »
Oh. Well, that's a literal dick move on Holist's part. No wonder he was an admittedly shitty father to the first three.

Though, even that said, If I had 3 kids with wife number one and got divorced, I would probably try and woo a woman who already had children and had no desire for any more. You know, emotional support is a resource too, like.

That's just me though.
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #176 on: November 19, 2013, 07:03:27 am »
I'd probably have an issue with my father too if he divorced my mom and fecked off to the UK.

Oh.

 :lulz:
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #177 on: November 19, 2013, 07:13:05 am »
Wow, I really didn't expect that to be controversial. Have none of you ever seen people making snide remarks in grocery stores about people who have more children than they can control? If that's the kind of shit you say, then yes, sooner or later a child of a large family will overhear you. Maybe not directly, maybe it's just your kid going up to their kid on the playground and saying "My mom said that your mom has more kids than brains." While we're grossly exaggerating what people actually said, saying it's okay to think of human beings as wastes of space as long as we don't tell them to their face is like saying "Being racist is fine, as long as you're tactful about it. What they won't know won't hurt them."

It all comes back to the old game of controlling reproductive rights. If you're saying that only wealthy people whose philosophies you agree with should have more than N kids, then you're saying that those other people - the ones with the wrong values and inferior lifestyles - shouldn't. If God wanted them to breed, he'd have given them a four bedroom house and your enlightened opinions on everything, right?

QG is right, it is judgey concern trolling. If you want to go shit on overweight people because it's socially acceptable to do so, go ahead, but don't try to kid yourself that you're being a crusader for social justice by redirecting food from people that overeat to people that are starving.

If you were actually seriously concerned that someone had more children than they could provide for - you'd offer to help provide for the children. If your concern only extends to mocking the parents, that's not concern, that's being judgmental.

Frankly, it makes more sense to mock people for promoting the paradigm of "children are entirely at the mercy of they're biogenitors' ability to provide for them" in the first place. Why don't we offer universal childcare, give parents both maternity and paternity leave, and extend school breakfast to school dinner?

The next time you feel the need to tell someone off for having so many kids...

I feel like this attack is aimed at me ... I never feel the need to tell someone off for having many kids.

-2 points for reading comprehension.

Furthermore, why would anyone talk to a child about the parent's parenting skills? I cannot see a possible reason for that. Even when your intent is to hurt the child that is not a very good technique. Not even psychotics would do that.

Man we go to different grocery stores. Of the top of my head, evangelicals tend to gravitate towards this sort script:
"Is that a lip piercing? You're going to hell. Stop trying to be punky rebel and go to church like your parents."
"My parents said it was okay."
"Your parents are AGENTS OF SATAN."


Furthermore, why would anyone talk to a child about the parent's parenting skills? I cannot see a possible reason for that. Even when your intent is to hurt the child that is not a very good technique. Not even psychotics would do that.

Hey, he's been waiting WEEKS to spring that line, most likely.

Can we analyze this comment? There's no knowledge transfer - all you've got is vaguely derisive speculation. It's pure phatic communication. Not that there's anything wrong with that, phatic communication is really important in building relationships and communities. It's just that with this post, I get the feeling that you're trying to build relationships at my expense. Like trying to build an in-group out-group paradigm.

We definitely buy groceries in different places.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #178 on: November 19, 2013, 07:15:23 am »
Wow, I really didn't expect that to be controversial. Have none of you ever seen people making snide remarks in grocery stores about people who have more children than they can control? If that's the kind of shit you say, then yes, sooner or later a child of a large family will overhear you. Maybe not directly, maybe it's just your kid going up to their kid on the playground and saying "My mom said that your mom has more kids than brains." While we're grossly exaggerating what people actually said, saying it's okay to think of human beings as wastes of space as long as we don't tell them to their face is like saying "Being racist is fine, as long as you're tactful about it. What they won't know won't hurt them."

It all comes back to the old game of controlling reproductive rights. If you're saying that only wealthy people whose philosophies you agree with should have more than N kids, then you're saying that those other people - the ones with the wrong values and inferior lifestyles - shouldn't. If God wanted them to breed, he'd have given them a four bedroom house and your enlightened opinions on everything, right?

QG is right, it is judgey concern trolling. If you want to go shit on overweight people because it's socially acceptable to do so, go ahead, but don't try to kid yourself that you're being a crusader for social justice by redirecting food from people that overeat to people that are starving.

If you were actually seriously concerned that someone had more children than they could provide for - you'd offer to help provide for the children. If your concern only extends to mocking the parents, that's not concern, that's being judgmental.

Frankly, it makes more sense to mock people for promoting the paradigm of "children are entirely at the mercy of they're biogenitors' ability to provide for them" in the first place. Why don't we offer universal childcare, give parents both maternity and paternity leave, and extend school breakfast to school dinner?

The next time you feel the need to tell someone off for having so many kids...

I feel like this attack is aimed at me ... I never feel the need to tell someone off for having many kids.

-2 points for reading comprehension.

Furthermore, why would anyone talk to a child about the parent's parenting skills? I cannot see a possible reason for that. Even when your intent is to hurt the child that is not a very good technique. Not even psychotics would do that.

Man we go to different grocery stores. Of the top of my head, evangelicals tend to gravitate towards this sort script:
"Is that a lip piercing? You're going to hell. Stop trying to be punky rebel and go to church like your parents."
"My parents said it was okay."
"Your parents are AGENTS OF SATAN."


Furthermore, why would anyone talk to a child about the parent's parenting skills? I cannot see a possible reason for that. Even when your intent is to hurt the child that is not a very good technique. Not even psychotics would do that.

Hey, he's been waiting WEEKS to spring that line, most likely.

Can we analyze this comment? There's no knowledge transfer - all you've got is vaguely derisive speculation. It's pure phatic communication. Not that there's anything wrong with that, phatic communication is really important in building relationships and communities. It's just that with this post, I get the feeling that you're trying to build relationships at my expense. Like trying to build an in-group out-group paradigm.

We definitely buy groceries in different places.

Oh, good it's not just me.
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Re: Mommy Shaming
« Reply #179 on: November 19, 2013, 07:16:38 am »
Except the part where race has nothing to do with overpopulation and resource consumption. And I've never said that human beings are wastes of space. If I felt that way I would be in favor of warfare. I am a pacifist. A rather adamant one at that.

Point of order:  Every war has resulted in a net population GAIN.  No shit.  People fuck faster than you can shoot them.  (Sarcasm aside, the boom after the war invariable makes up and exceeds the casualties of the war, in every case).

The only event that significantly reduced the human population was the black plague.  And THAT didn't last long, either.

There's another event that significantly reduced the human population.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”