The fuck did he go? PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T STARTING A CULT SOMEWHERE
I don't have time for that shit.
:( He ...decamped...
But as this is Hotel California, he'll be back.
saw him in IRC today. he's still blogging at 23ae as well.
he flounced because we aren't nice people.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 23, 2011, 11:14:14 PM
he flounced because we aren't nice people.
We don't have to start being nicer now do we? This fact can hardly have taken him by surprise. He wasn't unaware of this being the worst forum on the internets.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 23, 2011, 11:20:22 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 23, 2011, 11:14:14 PM
he flounced because we aren't nice people.
We don't have to start being nicer now do we?
If people try to turn this place into a hippie love-fest, I will make it my personal mission to balance them out with as much vitriol and mindless rage as I can muster in my free time.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 23, 2011, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on March 23, 2011, 11:20:22 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 23, 2011, 11:14:14 PM
he flounced because we aren't nice people.
We don't have to start being nicer now do we?
If people try to turn this place into a hippie love-fest, I will make it my personal mission to balance them out with as much vitriol and mindless rage as I can muster in my free time.
This makes me happy. It's reassuring to see a safe pair of hands on the tiller.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 23, 2011, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on March 23, 2011, 11:20:22 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 23, 2011, 11:14:14 PM
he flounced because we aren't nice people.
We don't have to start being nicer now do we?
If people try to turn this place into a hippie love-fest, I will make it my personal mission to balance them out with as much vitriol and mindless rage as I can muster in my free time.
LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE.
Of course on the opposite side to that in that people are leaving faster then they are being replaced and while being a dickhead to everyone around here is fun this place will become very stale when its the same ten people or less posting.
Cram will be back, its not just the mean factor that made him lose interest it looks like it was the repetition that did it. He just needs a change of scenery which I think we can all relate to.
Since i got ill last year i have posted a lot less,and im not sure why. :sad:
People are busier with real life than they used to be, because real life has gotten more difficult. Everyone's working more, or going back to school, or whatever people do in uncertain and economically unpleasant times. I'm not convinced that it has anything to do with PD.com itself. My offhand sense of things is that those "same ten posters" happen to be the people who have the financial and social stability to withstand the current times without letting it make them change their routine (or whatever passes for it) much.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 12:48:07 AM
People are busier with real life than they used to be, because real life has gotten more difficult. Everyone's working more, or going back to school, or whatever people do in uncertain and economically unpleasant times. I'm not convinced that it has anything to do with PD.com itself. My offhand sense of things is that those "same ten posters" happen to be the people who have the financial and social stability to withstand the current times without letting it make them change their routine (or whatever passes for it) much.
To be frank, I'm a lifer here because:
1. As mentioned above, I can still manage it, and
2. It's not fucking Tucson, it's not that Goddamn refinery, and it's not a town loaded with awful fucking Calvinists that make me want to start running random bastards over in the grocery store parking lot.
Ya know, all of those factors seem relevant.
I gotta say, I don't think "we" are any meaner now than we were two years ago. I think ECH nailed it.
And, as a horrible mean person, I'm also gonna say that I nailed it; PD.com is a board for bored white (however the fuck you define "white") middle class people, and that is a rapidly declining demographic.
I think this is a social problem. I'd like to talk about it. Can we talk about it without anyone being offended by the crassness of being called white? I think this is important, actually. I might even go so far as to say that we need people with the middle-class freedom to think about things.
Sounds reasonable enough to me.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
Ya know, all of those factors seem relevant.
I gotta say, I don't think "we" are any meaner now than we were two years ago. I think ECH nailed it.
I think we're quite a bit nicer.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
And, as a horrible mean person, I'm also gonna say that I nailed it; PD.com is a board for bored white (however the fuck you define "white") middle class people, and that is a rapidly declining demographic.
I think this is a social problem. I'd like to talk about it. Can we talk about it without anyone being offended by the crassness of being called white? I think this is important, actually. I might even go so far as to say that we need people with the middle-class freedom to think about things.
THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF NIGEL KEEPING A BROTHER DOWN. :crankey:
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 01:57:07 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
Ya know, all of those factors seem relevant.
I gotta say, I don't think "we" are any meaner now than we were two years ago. I think ECH nailed it.
I think we're quite a bit nicer.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
And, as a horrible mean person, I'm also gonna say that I nailed it; PD.com is a board for bored white (however the fuck you define "white") middle class people, and that is a rapidly declining demographic.
I think this is a social problem. I'd like to talk about it. Can we talk about it without anyone being offended by the crassness of being called white? I think this is important, actually. I might even go so far as to say that we need people with the middle-class freedom to think about things.
THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF NIGEL KEEPING A BROTHER DOWN. :crankey:
Ain't that the truth!
"Help, help, I'm being repressed"!
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
PD.com is a board for bored white (however the fuck you define "white") middle class people, and that is a rapidly declining demographic.
I recall you saying that before, and at the time, I didn't like it, though I just let it slide. I've decided I do in fact like it.
ETA: It fits.
That makes me happy. :)
I'm totally cool with a discussion about it, actually, which I think you and I talked about briefly on facebook. I was just pissed with the way it came up, not the accusation itself. Because really, I am a white motherfucker. White trash, yeah, but white.
I, FOR ONE, AM OUTRAGED AT NOT BEING ACCEPTED AS THE BLACK MAN THAT I AM ON THE INSIDE.
THE FACT THAT I LIVE IN ORO VALLEY NOTWITHSTANDING.
In the UK, the much of the working class now think of themselves as Middle Class. But it takes more than the fact we no longer have a Manufacturing Industry, to change the aspirations and values of a whole class of people. I see our class system as more reliant upon what our Grandparents were doing. Especially just after WWII. Many of the Men came back from the War, and went back to the Jobs they had left, and rejoined the Class that they had had before the War,
their children followed after them, and helped to establish the strong Trade Union movement. That we used to have.
Some Men came back from the War, but made the decision to make sure their children received a better education, and had access to more Career options than was available to them. Otherwise, what was the point of defending the Nation, if your children couldn't get a better deal. On a very simplistic level, one demographic stayed working class, the other, aspired to become Middle Class.
Then, when Thatcher came along and enabled everyone to be a Homeowner, both groups took advantage of this. The first group had made it. Property owning, educated, white collar, Professionals. In essence, Middle Class.
The second group, Property owning, minimum basic education, blue collar jobs, Wage earners. They became Working class Homeowners. And now there is no longer the scope of unskilled or semi skilled work available, their children go on to further education as well. The difference being that they (because of their working class roots) take Vocational Courses. The first group's children are taking Degree courses, and going on to Post-grad level. The second groups children are going into skilled/semiskilled jobs, like Plumbing, IT, Building Trades, but are now rejecting their Working Class roots, and thinking of themselves as Middle Class. These days, virtually no-one thinks of themselves as "Working Class".
The New Middle Class, refuse to see that there is still a Class system at all. The Old Middle Classes think of themselves as "Upper Middle Class", (To distinguish themselves as different to Thatcher's Home owning Middle Classes) The Working Class have picked up the "Middle Class" tag dropped by the ones who no longer accept Class as a social factor. They picked it up because they don't want to be mistaken for the Demographic they see themselves as "better than" The recently "Settled" Gypsies and Didikois. who are now in the reclaimed Council Housing that was sold on by Thatcher's climbers, then reposessed when the "Working Class" were fooled into voting Blair in. These settled Travelling Folk, know they are still Gypsy, but want to distance themselves from the European Roma, and the Pikey Irish, who they see as beneath them. And so on. The Upper Classes never change much. They just ride out any recession on their Old Money and Good Family resources, much as they always have done. If any Career is taken, It's in the Square Mile.
Finance, or they take Silk.
So the Class system is still firmly entrenched in Britain, no matter what people say. The criteria for Class changes slowly, but the idea that there must always be someone below you, to peck and feel superior to, is hard to ditch, culturally.
I hate that about the UK. It still lives within me, despite having spent scant time there in the last decade.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 24, 2011, 04:24:41 AM
In the UK, the much of the working class now think of themselves as Middle Class. But it takes more than the fact we no longer have a Manufacturing Industry, to change the aspirations and values of a whole class of people. I see our class system as more reliant upon what our Grandparents were doing. Especially just after WWII. Many of the Men came back from the War, and went back to the Jobs they had left, and rejoined the Class that they had had before the War,
their children followed after them, and helped to establish the strong Trade Union movement. That we used to have.
Some Men came back from the War, but made the decision to make sure their children received a better education, and had access to more Career options than was available to them. Otherwise, what was the point of defending the Nation, if your children couldn't get a better deal. On a very simplistic level, one demographic stayed working class, the other, aspired to become Middle Class.
Then, when Thatcher came along and enabled everyone to be a Homeowner, both groups took advantage of this. The first group had made it. Property owning, educated, white collar, Professionals. In essence, Middle Class.
The second group, Property owning, minimum basic education, blue collar jobs, Wage earners. They became Working class Homeowners. And now there is no longer the scope of unskilled or semi skilled work available, their children go on to further education as well. The difference being that they (because of their working class roots) take Vocational Courses. The first group's children are taking Degree courses, and going on to Post-grad level. The second groups children are going into skilled/semiskilled jobs, like Plumbing, IT, Building Trades, but are now rejecting their Working Class roots, and thinking of themselves as Middle Class. These days, virtually no-one thinks of themselves as "Working Class".
The New Middle Class, refuse to see that there is still a Class system at all. The Old Middle Classes think of themselves as "Upper Middle Class", (To distinguish themselves as different to Thatcher's Home owning Middle Classes) The Working Class have picked up the "Middle Class" tag dropped by the ones who no longer accept Class as a social factor. They picked it up because they don't want to be mistaken for the Demographic they see themselves as "better than" The recently "Settled" Gypsies and Didikois. who are now in the reclaimed Council Housing that was sold on by Thatcher's climbers, then reposessed when the "Working Class" were fooled into voting Blair in. These settled Travelling Folk, know they are still Gypsy, but want to distance themselves from the European Roma, and the Pikey Irish, who they see as beneath them. And so on. The Upper Classes never change much. They just ride out any recession on their Old Money and Good Family resources, much as they always have done. If any Career is taken, It's in the Square Mile.
Finance, or they take Silk.
So the Class system is still firmly entrenched in Britain, no matter what people say. The criteria for Class changes slowly, but the idea that there must always be someone below you, to peck and feel superior to, is hard to ditch, culturally.
The internet is full of instances of cerebral discussions getting jacked and turning into personal drama.
Nowhere outside of PD.com have I seen so many instances of personal drama getting jacked and turning into cerebral shit.
BB is high again and I like it.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 24, 2011, 04:24:41 AM
the idea that there must always be someone below you, to peck and feel superior to, is hard to ditch, culturally.Biologically
Standard primate behavior.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
I think this is a social problem. I'd like to talk about it. Can we talk about it without anyone being offended by the crassness of being called white? I think this is important, actually. I might even go so far as to say that we need people with the middle-class freedom to think about things.
I think it's a really important issue. So you're saying the board hasn't gotten meaner its peoples social conditions changing and I think you're right for the most part with one or two exceptions. I doesn't if the board is mean or not (though it wont help), it's that regardless of its tone it will stagnate if numbers keep dropping. The idea of a recruitment drive has been something I've been mulling over, the only way to successfully do it (because advertising on the net will be like a beacon for stupid), is to have people here suggest the site to people they know.
Many of our current regular posters found the site though this method so it does work pretty well as a screening mechanism.
As to white and or privileged people composing a lot of our available audience there are a number of factors that cause that:
1) RAW and steve jackson both bring in people however they are nearly always of the geeky male variety.
2) A lot of what we portray ourselves with on the front page is very much what would appeal to college students.
Money and free time do dictate what kind of person will use this site. Its actually funny now that I have a 9 to 5 I'm getting to visit here more then ever before.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
I might even go so far as to say that we need people with the middle-class freedom to think about things.
Thinking of this again, there are a lot of problems there privilege only, people working to keep themselves in food and a roof over their head never get to consider say transgender reassignment or other costly personal issues. Freedom is a luxury or a side effect of luxury.
I think it is as simple as the core group of long timers are getting older and assuming life responsibilities that come along with getting older.
Kids
Promotions at work which lead to more responsibility and less time to fuck off at work
Aging/dying parents
Mid Life Crises
etc
etc
etc
And I think that dovetails into Faust's post about dwindling numbers. This place basically just needs some fresh blood to pump through the hardened arteries.
I still don't get the argument. Nigel, could you elaborate?
I thnk I get it, and it makes me uncomfortable, so we should discuss it.
It appears that Discordianism, as seen in the US at least, appeals mainly to white people. I'm not sure if there's and economic aspect to it as well, or an "Internet access" aspect, which we may want to explore as well.
The question for me is, "is there anything inherent in Discordia that naturally restricts specific ethnicities from enjoying or participating?"
I'm trying to avoid the sentence, "Discordia is inherently racist", even though that's an awesome troll.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 01:57:46 PM
The question for me is, "is there anything inherent in Discordia that naturally restricts specific ethnicities from enjoying or participating?"
No.
I will agree that there are economic issues.
I will agree that there are racial factors in economic issues.
But I don't think we project any barriers to other ethnicities. We have NEVER treated anyone differently on issues of race, and people who have (Cowass, Admiral Lexington, Voice of Truth, Manubu, Zurtok) have left, due to being ostracized after posting some racist screed or other.
I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of). It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens. Seen it myself.)
It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:09:13 PM
I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of). It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens. Seen it myself.)
It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
Exactly, the time to think nowadays is a luxury that's not easily available.
QuoteIt's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
That sounds about right. In that case, is there an unspoken obligation for outreach?
Beyond that, not enough info to make a statement about such a ratio of race at PD. Even less so for Discordia as a whole.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
QuoteIt's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
That sounds about right. In that case, is there an unspoken obligation for outreach?
I feel that outreach is the antithesis of what we're doing here.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
QuoteIt's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
That sounds about right. In that case, is there an unspoken obligation for outreach?
I don't see that there's an obligation.
I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams. I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.
Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves. If they want to come, they're welcome. Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.
I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok. We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track. I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.
We are what we are.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
QuoteIt's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
That sounds about right. In that case, is there an unspoken obligation for outreach?
We don't outreach for ANYONE. I'd find it insulting to be invited just because I was a minority or of a poor economic backround.
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:21:19 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
QuoteIt's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
That sounds about right. In that case, is there an unspoken obligation for outreach?
We don't outreach for ANYONE. I'd find it insulting to be invited just because I was a minority or of a poor economic backround.
This.
The very essence of Discordia is all-inclusive by default.
Have you ever considered that there's possibly no appeal in this to other-racial cultures except to a certain segment? I mean as great as we all know we are (troll), when you think about it: most white people think we're pretty out-there.
Maybe they just don't like us.
Well, Discordia and BIP does seem to do well in Brazil, for whatever that's worth.
As far as preventing racism, that requires changing of fundamental social values and attitudes that many people don't realize they have until exposed to other races. So it seems the most important thing to do is raise the general education level?
Although as far as this site appealing to college students, I'm in college and could probably get 'new blood' on here by inviting friends, if thats what you guys want.
To get minorities though, it just gets down to finding like-minded people.
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 02:26:15 PM
As far as preventing racism, that requires changing of fundamental social values and attitudes that many people don't realize they have until exposed to other races. So it seems the most important thing to do is raise the general education level?
Although as far as this site appealing to college students, I'm in college and could probably get 'new blood' on here by inviting friends, if thats what you guys want.
To get minorities though, it just gets down to finding like-minded people.
No, I know plenty of racist fucks with degrees, and a large number of illiterates who don't give a fuck for race.
In the 60s, it WAS an ignorance thing. Now it's a hate thing. The remedy is mockery and laughter.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
I don't see that there's an obligation.
I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams. I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.
Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves. If they want to come, they're welcome. Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.
I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok. We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track. I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.
We are what we are.
THIS.
Navkat: Maybe we aren't likeable period.
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:09:13 PM
I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of). It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens. Seen it myself.)
It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
Exactly, the time to think nowadays is a luxury that's not easily available.
See this is the mindset I don't get... I don't really think economic factors are as important as some people do... I think some people just have natural inclinations to think certain ways.
I mean I've been pretty poor my entire life, only really in the last three or four years have I had enough money that I'm not constantly worrying about covering rent, food, etc. It's one of the primary reasons my wife and I don't have kids. Even now, I don't really make that much money... you'd be surprised how little porn photoshoppers make. Or maybe you wouldn't. But the point is, I've had a certain philosophical nature my entire life. Does being comfortable give me more time to think about philosophical questions? Sure, but that doesn't mean I didn't have them before.
So I guess that's the aspect I don't understand.
And then there is this, which I think someone already alluded to.
(http://www.ciclirati.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/maslow-hierarchy-needs.jpg)
I'm thinking, honestly, that Discordia falls into the blue, Self Actualization run of Maslow's ladder.
And given the socio-economics in America, it can't be too much of a surprise that it seems to attract more middle-class Whites. I would say that the message of Discordianism would need to be re-tooled in a way that it more easily fits lower in the hierarchy of needs, or maybe more to the point, more obviously fits lower in the hierarchy.
Quote from: Richter on March 24, 2011, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
I don't see that there's an obligation.
I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams. I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.
Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves. If they want to come, they're welcome. Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.
I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok. We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track. I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.
We are what we are.
THIS.
Navkat: Maybe we aren't likeable period.
I think we're likeable.
I also think we make much ado about truths that most people keep to themselves because they don't feel the need to advertise and commune about the fact that it's all a crock of absurdly funny shit.
Relative newcomer's thought... I think I can count on one hand the number of people around here who actually know what color my skin is. Never got the feeling anybody gave much of a shit.
I wonder how much the religious aspect affects it? Taking Eris as your goddess is a bit tongue in cheek (alright, maybe a LOT) but from what I've seen, there don't seem to be a lot of religious types in discordia.
In my life, I've met probably 3 professed atheists that didn't share my melanin levels. I'm not sure why that is, but I'm kicking around a few possible reasons that I haven't fully articulated in my head yet. I'd be interested to know what the correlation is for whites vs other enthnicities, to atheism, and how closely that matches the demographics found in discordia. Not even sure where one would begin to gather that sort of data though.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:09:13 PM
I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of). It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens. Seen it myself.)
It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
Exactly, the time to think nowadays is a luxury that's not easily available.
See this is the mindset I don't get... I don't really think economic factors are as important as some people do... I think some people just have natural inclinations to think certain ways.
I mean I've been pretty poor my entire life, only really in the last three or four years have I had enough money that I'm not constantly worrying about covering rent, food, etc. It's one of the primary reasons my wife and I don't have kids. Even now, I don't really make that much money... you'd be surprised how little porn photoshoppers make. Or maybe you wouldn't. But the point is, I've had a certain philosophical nature my entire life. Does being comfortable give me more time to think about philosophical questions? Sure, but that doesn't mean I didn't have them before.
So I guess that's the aspect I don't understand.
I've come from abject poverty, put myself through college and have always had an interest in philosophy and science. But we're exceptions not the rule. I know philosophy certainly did not go down well with
young people from hard backgrounds, I find nearly all the older disenfranchised very well versed in philosophy in fact talking to them was one of the only cool parts of my job in security.
No one has cooler ideas then an alcoholic homeless seventy year old.
Are we more worried about getting minorities to come to PD though, or with why they wouldnt be attracted to PD, or a bit of both?
Quote from: Luna on March 24, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
Relative newcomer's thought... I think I can count on one hand the number of people around here who actually know what color my skin is. Never got the feeling anybody gave much of a shit.
I'm not even entirely sure of your sex. That's the way most of the people I converse with on the internet go. I kind of like it. The anon appeal.
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:09:13 PM
I think, more than anything, that Discordianism was written for White culture by the fact that it was written by privileged White guys (sounds like another document I know of). It's hard to worry about the BIP, for example, if you're worried about being lynched or deported or denied employment time and again strictly because you're Black, etc (Be assured, this still happens. Seen it myself.)
It's not that we keep them out; it's that there's no appeal for them to come in.
Exactly, the time to think nowadays is a luxury that's not easily available.
See this is the mindset I don't get... I don't really think economic factors are as important as some people do... I think some people just have natural inclinations to think certain ways.
I mean I've been pretty poor my entire life, only really in the last three or four years have I had enough money that I'm not constantly worrying about covering rent, food, etc. It's one of the primary reasons my wife and I don't have kids. Even now, I don't really make that much money... you'd be surprised how little porn photoshoppers make. Or maybe you wouldn't. But the point is, I've had a certain philosophical nature my entire life. Does being comfortable give me more time to think about philosophical questions? Sure, but that doesn't mean I didn't have them before.
So I guess that's the aspect I don't understand.
Yeah, I think the race thing is a bit of a white herring.
The bigger question seems to be: "Why the fuck would anyone want to be a Discordian anyway?" - related discussion here (http://www.erisbarandgrill.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=11007) and here (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_186093641420641#!/home.php?sk=group_186093641420641&view=permalink&id=205011246195547).
Been here a few years, and I think the same as Luna. I actually take for granted that nobody seems to care.
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 02:31:08 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 24, 2011, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
I don't see that there's an obligation.
I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams. I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.
Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves. If they want to come, they're welcome. Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.
I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok. We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track. I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.
We are what we are.
THIS.
Navkat: Maybe we aren't likeable period.
I think we're likeable.
I also think we make much ado about truths that most people keep to themselves because they don't feel the need to advertise and commune about the fact that it's all a crock of absurdly funny shit.
At the same time we are not intended for mass production or mass consumption.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.
Point.
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.
Point.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.
Point.
So do we try to give better access to information then, or a better understanding of the fringe?
OK, I'm just going to throw this out there for consideration. I live in a black neighborhood. All of my neighbors are black. They called the cops on me for doing my filthy pagan shit on Halloween. They think I'm evil and going to hell and many have made numerous attempts to help me find the lord since the incident.
My experience is that many (I hesitate to say most) black people have been raised in the christian church. Now this is not your pope loving, rosary saying catholic church, nor is it a typical episcopal, lutheran and these days methodist churches. They go to hellfire and brimstone baptist or some type of pentacostal church. I see the biggest gang bangers in my neighborhood in their best every Sunday morning with their mother/grandmother on the way to church.
Now these churches portray us as the devil.
I don't see the low number of black Discordians as having anything to do with racism as much as Discordia, Sub-Genius, and (I know, I know) paganism is against almost everything they have been raised to believe.
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.
Point.
So do we try to give better access to information then, or a better understanding of the fringe?
Why should we? People come to us when they have an interest in the source material. I mean tell your friends of course we need more people, but beyond that I don't see any need to go out of your way to inform people of what we are and what we do.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 01:21:43 PM
I still don't get the argument. Nigel, could you elaborate?
Faust nailed it. The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton; think of it as a metaphor for unconscious privilege. Actual skin color is irrelevant. What's happening is that people are broke and busy. The middle class is dwindling fast, and the privilege to spend time being all thinky on internet forums is dwindling with it.
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time? I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?
Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.
Point.
So do we try to give better access to information then, or a better understanding of the fringe?
Why should we? People come to us when they have an interest in the source material. I mean tell your friends of course we need more people, but beyond that I don't see any need to go out of your way to inform people of what we are and what we do.
So it seems like the thing to do is tell friends, and let GASMs reel in anyone else?
Quote from: Richter on March 24, 2011, 02:14:55 PM
Beyond that, not enough info to make a statement about such a ratio of race at PD. Even less so for Discordia as a whole.
I think that this board has a fair number of non-whites, actually, as internet forums go.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Quote from: Richter on March 24, 2011, 02:40:43 PM
Been here a few years, and I think the same as Luna. I actually take for granted that nobody seems to care.
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 02:31:08 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 24, 2011, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
I don't see that there's an obligation.
I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams. I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.
Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves. If they want to come, they're welcome. Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.
I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok. We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track. I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.
We are what we are.
THIS.
Navkat: Maybe we aren't likeable period.
I think we're likeable.
I also think we make much ado about truths that most people keep to themselves because they don't feel the need to advertise and commune about the fact that it's all a crock of absurdly funny shit.
At the same time we are not intended for mass production or mass consumption.
Exactamundo.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 24, 2011, 02:14:55 PM
Beyond that, not enough info to make a statement about such a ratio of race at PD. Even less so for Discordia as a whole.
I think that this board has a fair number of non-whites, actually, as internet forums go.
We have an above average number women to men forum wise, not sure if the same holds true for non-whites but i wouldn't be surprised if that was also the case.
Do a push with posters.
Not just one city... EVERYBODY. Pick a few posters, or use ONE... and stick the damn thing up all over the country, and see who bites.
Hell, stick something on it to Google that'll bring people here, and see how many times it gets used to find the joint.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
Ah I see... ok, I can get that. Yes, it does upset the fuck out of me, I *think* for the reason I stated above.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
I am "culturally Roger".
ETA: I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave. They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
There is this, too.
In fact, I almost feel like we might have a sacred duty to make people uncomfortable. Or at least, examine some reasons why it's such a hot button.
I agree.
And I was just about to say "I will think about this more tonight at home, when I'm not working" and then the irony smacked me on the head with a hammer.
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Nope.
It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"
That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers. It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Nope.
It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"
That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers. It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.
Yup. Consider the source. Who benefits the most from it.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think you are very close to having your finger on it with the line "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to".
What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think you are very close to having your finger on it with the line "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to".
What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.
Ah, I see now. Yes that makes sense.
Now I can pinpoint that the uncomfortableness I felt when it was brought up was probably latent guilt for knowing it's true, like when someone says something in an argument and it makes you mad, despite not having any proof against the comment. The anger stems from the suspicion that something you don't like is true. Like, if someone said "Hoopla, you have pink glittering antlers growing from your forehead" I would simply laugh and pretty much pity that person for being deluded, but when someone says "Atheists use faith to back up their claims as much as religious people do" I get angry, maybe because it's true?
Sorry, I know my analogy sort of drifted from the topic, but it's how I formulate thought. I'm mostly thinking out loud via a keyboard now.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 24, 2011, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Nope.
It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"
That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers. It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.
Yup. Consider the source. Who benefits the most from it.
So then is it more that people are concerned with having someone to shit on, or that the person they shit on is of a different color?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
I am "culturally Roger".
ETA: I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave. They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.
Yes, I think so too... and I also think that it's very very telling that being educated, intelligent, and articulate are "white" qualities in the eyes of some otherwise intelligent and thoughtful-seeming people.
Not to generalize all white people, but I am noticing a trend, which is that many white people think of it as a compliment to tell a brown person that they don't think of them as brown, yet an insult to tell a white person the same thing.
I think that a lot of us would like to think that we have transcended race, but the fact that this word is such a hotbutton for so many people is, to me, an indication that we have a lot more talking to do about it. I also think that if we are conscious of it, we can use this.
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 24, 2011, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Nope.
It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"
That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers. It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.
Yup. Consider the source. Who benefits the most from it.
So then is it more that people are concerned with having someone to shit on, or that the person they shit on is of a different color?
Yes. This is why many hate the Jews, too.
The trick is, "the enemy" has to be readily identifiable and/or catagorized.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:28:14 PM
Not to generalize all white people, but I am noticing a trend, which is that many white people think of it as a compliment to tell a brown person that they don't think of them as brown, yet an insult to tell a white person the same thing.
I just tell people I think of them as primates and really, really wish they'd just get off my planet.
Racism can only truly end when I am the last person on the face of the Earth.
isms suck.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
I am "culturally Roger".
ETA: I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave. They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.
I always thought it meant you were part of the standard mainstream culture, grew up in a suburb surrounded by white people etc.
Of course, this is pretty much the opposite of Nigel :?
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:22:35 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think you are very close to having your finger on it with the line "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to".
What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.
Ah, I see now. Yes that makes sense.
Now I can pinpoint that the uncomfortableness I felt when it was brought up was probably latent guilt for knowing it's true, like when someone says something in an argument and it makes you mad, despite not having any proof against the comment. The anger stems from the suspicion that something you don't like is true. Like, if someone said "Hoopla, you have pink glittering antlers growing from your forehead" I would simply laugh and pretty much pity that person for being deluded, but when someone says "Atheists use faith to back up their claims as much as religious people do" I get angry, maybe because it's true?
Sorry, I know my analogy sort of drifted from the topic, but it's how I formulate thought. I'm mostly thinking out loud via a keyboard now.
That is a very good analogy, I think.
It is a really uncomfortable topic, and even more uncomfortable if you may be the recipient of a privilege that is based in something you disagree with. I am light-skinned and could probably "pass", which brings me a type of privilege I find very very uncomfortable. How fucked up is that? It's natural to want to deny it, (in fact, my own mother tried to deny it a couple of weeks ago, LOL) but it's real and denying it won't change anything.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Nope.
It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"
That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers. It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.
I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.
Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's? And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?
I don't think I've ever seen more racism than I did when I was still in the public school system. Adults that hold onto it are more than likely just keeping it to themselves.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 24, 2011, 03:32:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
I am "culturally Roger".
ETA: I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave. They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.
I always thought it meant you were part of the standard mainstream culture, grew up in a suburb surrounded by white people etc.
Of course, this is pretty much the opposite of Nigel :?
What, exactly, makes growing up in a suburb "white"?
What makes mainstream culture "white" by default?
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:40:56 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 24, 2011, 03:32:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
I am "culturally Roger".
ETA: I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave. They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.
I always thought it meant you were part of the standard mainstream culture, grew up in a suburb surrounded by white people etc.
Of course, this is pretty much the opposite of Nigel :?
What, exactly, makes growing up in a suburb "white"?
What makes mainstream culture "white" by default?
I didn't make the language, I just monkey the way other people use it.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:40:56 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 24, 2011, 03:32:47 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
I'm playing with it.
I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.
I am "culturally Roger".
ETA: I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave. They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.
I always thought it meant you were part of the standard mainstream culture, grew up in a suburb surrounded by white people etc.
Of course, this is pretty much the opposite of Nigel :?
What, exactly, makes growing up in a suburb "white"?
What makes mainstream culture "white" by default?
Nothing really, other than assumptions of demographics. Suburban is somewhat of a subjective term too. Revere is a suburb of Boston but doesn't strike me as particularly "suburban."
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.
Balls. My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's? And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?
No different. Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.
Balls. My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's? And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?
No different. Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.
It's easier for the upper-class to tell the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 24, 2011, 03:55:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.
Balls. My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's? And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?
No different. Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.
It's easier for the upper-class to talk the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.
This. And it makes no difference that the upper class may even believe it themselves, to one degree or another. Mostly they seem to just view everyone else as a big magic puddle of shit that makes things for them. Great to have, but not something you want to actually
talk to.
As evidence, I present "Dead Peasants Insurance", where corporations take out life insurance policies on employees, with the corporation being the beneficiary. So you work for a company for a few years, then 20 years later you die, and they make mad bank, far and above what they paid for your services.
Shit. Is that legal?
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 04:03:07 PM
Shit. Is that legal?
Yes. However, in some states, surviving family can and have sued for the proceeds or at least a portion thereof.
In Arizona, of course, you can't even do that.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.
It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white". :lulz:
Back on the original threadjack:
Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.
So of course Nigel is correct. We should be using this.
I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread. I am not as uncomfortable with the original topic as beforehand, though I am still uncomfortable when confronted with my obvious privilege I was born with by genetic lottery.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 04:15:31 PM
I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread. I am not as uncomfortable with the original topic as beforehand, though I am still uncomfortable when confronted with my obvious privilege I was born with by genetic lottery.
As your spiritual advisor, take it from me that
being lucky isn't actually a felony.
Also, whatever ethnicity you are, you had to roll a natural 20 to be born in the gigantic bubble-wrap playhouse we call "America".
Chances for living in Europe are about the same.
And I don't think there's anyone here who could - with a straight face - deny that those 10% have it easier than anyone else on the planet.
Does benefiting from that privilege mean we have an obligation to do something about it?
Quote from: Captain Utopia on March 24, 2011, 04:20:33 PM
Does benefiting from that privilege mean we have an obligation to do something about it?
Do what about it? Toss it away and live in sackcloth and ashes?
Quote from: Captain Utopia on March 24, 2011, 04:20:33 PM
Does benefiting from that privilege mean we have an obligation to do something about it?
Obliged? No. Good thing to do? Sure. But that also comes down to what "do something about it" entails.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 04:19:17 PM
Also, whatever ethnicity you are, you had to roll a natural 20 to be born in the gigantic bubble-wrap playhouse we call "America".
Chances for living in Europe are about the same.
And I don't think there's anyone here who could - with a straight face - deny that those 10% have it easier than anyone else on the planet.
The old phrase "Standing on the shoulders of giants" springs to mind. Though in actually it's more sitting on a throne of bones....
Quote from: Faust on March 24, 2011, 04:22:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 04:19:17 PM
Also, whatever ethnicity you are, you had to roll a natural 20 to be born in the gigantic bubble-wrap playhouse we call "America".
Chances for living in Europe are about the same.
And I don't think there's anyone here who could - with a straight face - deny that those 10% have it easier than anyone else on the planet.
The old phrase "Standing on the shoulders of giants" springs to mind. Though in actually it's more sitting on a throne of bones....
The second is far, far more accurate.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.
It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white". :lulz:
I agree, I've since changed my position.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 24, 2011, 03:55:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.
Balls. My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's? And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?
No different. Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.
It's easier for the upper-class to tell the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.
you believe it's origin is from the upper class instead of cultural, religious, and language differences being the driving factor?
The fact is that when Italians of that era began migrating here in mass, they WERE working for less wages in order to survive, suffered from religious discrimination for being catholic and faced other common stereotypes.
Racism also exists among rich people of different ethnicity but similar socioeconomic background. How does that fit in with what you said? And how is this message being delivered to the working and middle class people? I know newspapers of the time could be pretty damn blatently racists, but considering literacy rates among the poor of that time, it doesn't account for the sheer amount of it happening in the public arena.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:59:04 PM
As evidence, I present "Dead Peasants Insurance", where corporations take out life insurance policies on employees, with the corporation being the beneficiary. So you work for a company for a few years, then 20 years later you die, and they make mad bank, far and above what they paid for your services.
I had to google that. :horrormirth:
doesn't surprise me that Winn-Dixie and AIG were involved. I can reasonably see the benefit to a business on taking out a policy on their top guys to cover the cost of replacing them should they kick off of this mortal coil, but only with their consent.
Otherwise it's just.. wrong.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.
It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white". :lulz:
reminds me of a NOFX song from back in my hazy acid and skateboarding days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkrHYHqChlI
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 04:15:06 PM
Back on the original threadjack:
Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.
So of course Nigel is correct. We should be using this.
This.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.
It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white". :lulz:
reminds me of a NOFX song from back in my hazy acid and skateboarding days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkrHYHqChlI
Didn't click, but I assume it's "Don't Call Me White". :lulz:
that's the one.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 04:36:27 PM
that's the one.
I'll raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0tzZ__Z5Qw
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 24, 2011, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 04:36:27 PM
that's the one.
I'll raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0tzZ__Z5Qw
LMNO: beating Pickles in every thread to date, presumably forever.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think your interpretation of it being an "accusation" or "attempt to make you feel guilty" are stemming from your own personal issues. I'm pretty sure nobody that has espoused the "PD theory of general socioeconomic relativity" is accusing you of anything.
It IS awfully funny, though, how many white people get all puckery and pedantic as soon as you call them "white". :lulz:
This. I think this one has legs.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 04:15:06 PM
Back on the original threadjack:
Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.
So of course Nigel is correct. We should be using this.
I'm seeing it go places. I am also interested in what might happen with it on TCC.
And also, yes, I do think we have an ethical and social responsibility to use our privilege to benefit others. Spread it around a little. But then, I'm a Nixonite and that guy was nothing if not a socialist.
wasn't he also a racist? I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.
He was at least an anti-Semite.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 05:39:13 PM
wasn't he also a racist? I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.
His home was in Southern California, but he grew up with some really ingrained ideas on race, color and religion. Like most Conservatives I know.
Quote from: Jenne on March 24, 2011, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 05:39:13 PM
wasn't he also a racist? I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.
His home was in Southern California, but he grew up with some really ingrained ideas on race, color and religion. Like most Conservatives I know.
Careful there... irony is close to knocking on your door.
In all fairness, it's a reasonably accurate generalization for inland OC. :lulz:
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 24, 2011, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
Its because people dislike change, and have beliefs set in that "I am me and they are not me, and we cant be the same because we dont look the same, so I cant associate me internally with them"
Nope.
It's "Is there someone below me on the totem pole that I can shit on, so I can ignore the people shitting on me from above?"
That's how the South got soldiers to fight for a system that would guarantee social immobility for those very same soldiers. It's how poor people are taught to hate Blacks and Mexicans instead of the people that actually are ruining them.
Yup. Consider the source. Who benefits the most from it.
So then is it more that people are concerned with having someone to shit on, or that the person they shit on is of a different color?
That they have someone to shit on. That person being a different color just makes it easier to know when to get the toilet paper out.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 06:28:12 PM
In all fairness, it's a reasonably accurate generalization for inland OC. :lulz:
It was said with love, but yeah from what I've heard of OC that doesn't surprise me.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 05:30:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 04:15:06 PM
Back on the original threadjack:
Talking about who is really or culturally which race is offensive as hell, and stupid on a scale that beggars the imagination.
So of course Nigel is correct. We should be using this.
I'm seeing it go places. I am also interested in what might happen with it on TCC.
And also, yes, I do think we have an ethical and social responsibility to use our privilege to benefit others. Spread it around a little. But then, I'm a Nixonite and that guy was nothing if not a socialist.
Oh, no argument there. Apparently I misunderstood the question...I took it to read "should we do something about our privilege" as opposed to "should we use the benefits of our privilege to help the standard of living/conditions of those less fortunate".
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 24, 2011, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 05:39:13 PM
wasn't he also a racist? I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.
His home was in Southern California, but he grew up with some really ingrained ideas on race, color and religion. Like most Conservatives I know.
Careful there... irony is close to knocking on your door.
That's why all the qualifiers, my friend.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 24, 2011, 06:28:12 PM
In all fairness, it's a reasonably accurate generalization for inland OC. :lulz:
...just so happens all the Conservatives I know IRL hail directly from there.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I think you are very close to having your finger on it with the line "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to".
What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.
This is precisely the line of thinking that made my position on this do a 180. I freaking love this concept now. I agree that we should play with it.
Just speaking from persona experience, so I may be full of shit but I think it's only in Colonial societies that people really identify as "white" And only in White dominated societies that people identify as "black" Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you. It leads to odd anomolies though like Australian Aborigines being identified as "black" even though culturally and genetically they are less similar to Africans than Europeans are. Their experiences at the hands of Australian Whites have more in common with those of American Native people than Black Americans.
I agree with Nigel though that this is basically a white middleclass board. I'm poor as shit but I had a middle class upbringing.
Awesome thread is awesome.
For me, I'm not posting so much for reasons that have already been stated before. I didn't fall out of love with PD, I just got meatspace things going on, when previously I could spag around on a computer 24/7.
With regards to the race/ culture/ class discussion, I'm seeing a lot of differing viewpoints and genuine deep discussion. It makes my heart warm with love you guys. I'm working class, white and fairly "intelligent/ well read" (delete as appropriate). I don't think this does have anything to do with my attraction to PD or Discordia as a whole. I don't think it doesn't, either of course.
Peterson Cekamp (of Brazil) was excited by some of the shit we were doing here, notably the BIP. He was indeed middle class, but it suggests that any "racial barrier", if it exists, is at the very least porous.
...I like that statement: porous racial barrier.
Quote from: Jenne on March 24, 2011, 08:00:51 PM
...I like that statement: porous racial barrier.
Yeah, I liked it too.
I'm sure I stole it from someone.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Just speaking from persona experience, so I may be full of shit but I think it's only in Colonial societies that people really identify as "white" And only in White dominated societies that people identify as "black" Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
hxxp://stormfront.org
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 05:39:13 PM
wasn't he also a racist? I haven't read a whole lot about him, but should really add that to my list.
Interesting thing about Nixon; his personal feelings about Jews were at odds with his ideology, and he was careful not to let them affect his policy. I don't think he was so much racist, as a product of white Quakers in America in the early 20th century.
My racial barrier is definitely "porous", if you know what I mean...
Quote from: Luna on March 24, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
Relative newcomer's thought... I think I can count on one hand the number of people around here who actually know what color my skin is. Never got the feeling anybody gave much of a shit.
You're in the SCA.
That's the whitest shit
imaginable.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 24, 2011, 09:18:09 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 24, 2011, 02:32:00 PM
Relative newcomer's thought... I think I can count on one hand the number of people around here who actually know what color my skin is. Never got the feeling anybody gave much of a shit.
You're in the SCA.
That's the whitest shit imaginable.
MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU OWE ME A COKE!!!!!!!!!!!
:spit:
:lulz: :lulz:
I like where this thread went.
You know wht? I think LARPing is whiter than SCA.
Hrm....now I am juggling the whitness of LARP, SCA, and historical martial arts reconstruction.
FUCK YOU ALL!!!!!
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 24, 2011, 09:41:10 PM
You know wht? I think LARPing is whiter than SCA.
Hrm....now I am juggling the whitness of LARP, SCA, and historical martial arts reconstruction.
FUCK YOU ALL!!!!!
Hey, I know a really awesome Native dude who met his fiance LARPing.
In terms of internet usage in Mexico, its mostly instant gratification entertainment (youtube, facebook) or just school/work related, i wouldnt consider a huge portion of the population to be "digitalized" so to speak. Add to that the fact that internet access is a luxury that is usually not chosen over TV subscription or alcohol, the internet user demography is small. For example, i survive a month with about $416 (dollars), and about $41 of them go to the phone/internet rent. (just as reference, i pay $91 of housing).
Now, on terms of the demography taht actually has internet access, its either middle or high class... due to the class unequality, most of middle and upper class have prejudice and entitlement ideology, something Tea-Baggerish, but thats just a metaphor... i mean, they have ideological ties mostly to the far-right, establishment and orthodox religion... so theres few subversives from the upper classes...
Now, the middle or upper class people that are anti-establishment, so to speak, are mostly jaded and hedonistic, they know how things work, and how they dont change...
As for me, ive lived in different places with different cultures; ive been miserable poor, and ive been also in positions of wealth; im smart, with previos interest in philosophy and a huge interest on psychology now; im also a social recluse that lives on books and music.
Im also white compared to my nationals; so yes, if one wants to make the postulation that race is the determinining factor its simplyfiyng the issue... the underlying tie to "race" would in fact be the factors of time to actually read, disposition towards subversive ideology, tendency for reading odd articles about odd symbolical things.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 09:12:12 PM
My racial barrier is definitely "porous", if you know what I mean...
:fap:
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 24, 2011, 09:41:10 PM
You know wht? I think LARPing is whiter than SCA.
Hrm....now I am juggling the whitness of LARP, SCA, and historical martial arts reconstruction.
FUCK YOU ALL!!!!!
SCA is Larping. A particularly white variety of it.
I also know 2 blacks and a native that LARP, although perhaps they are "culturally white" I've never seen anyone darker that pasty at an SCA event.
If we want to consider whether or not we have a 'duty' or 'obligation' to use privileges that are, for lack of a better term, based on luck, how will that be qualified? For example, what precisely are the privileges, and to what extent would that obligation go? For example, I'm white (75% German, 25% Hungarian, with a pedigree and family lines going back to the 1600s), in a household that gets $300k annually. Does this mean I have an obligation to toss a dollar at a homeless man, or give him a meal, set of clothes, and a shower? Or would that vary depending on whether or not the man is a 'minority'?
So if an obligation to help who we can exists, is it only to help those who we have an 'advantage' over based on race, or those who don't live as well as us?
PD is mostly id think a USA based community, most of the point of being here is about interaction with the other members of it, because although the host to the Principia Discordia, it isnt primarily about Discordianism.
And necessarily follows that if its central focus is on the community, the people that remain are the ones that have good interaction with the already present members.
Make of it what you will, its subjective as to if this is a good or bad thing.
---------------------------------------------------------------
PD subforum is basicly for the very much philosophically driven, with the pineal thread here and there.
AT is internet candy, temple of the memes but mostly the part where day to day or merely social conversations take place (theres exceptions, but this is the general thing going on)
OMF is trolling (in all its definitions)
AI is politics and news
TFYS is sporadically the grounds of BIP discussions, with a lot of texts being a mix between OKM and the PD stylistic
DC is pretty self describing
LC is the host of the "best book" discussions, piracy and personal narratives
OKM is supposedly intended for rants, but theres a lot of texts similar to those created in LC
TaS self described
MMM is a mix between OMF and LC
BB self described
--------------------------------------------------------
Now that we have a summary, we can get on to some analysis.
PD: very niche interest
AT: of vague interest for non-USA or very socially involved foreigners
OMF: not intrinsecally tied to discordianism
AI: some interest to foreigners, but sometimes it gets flooded with local news that arent of general interest
TFYSS: Not much activity on projects
DC: somewhat like OMF
LC: i consider it a niche interest too
OKM: too methaporical and personal for my taste usually
TaS: see DC and OMF
BB: for the socially inclined too id say
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
If we want to consider whether or not we have a 'duty' or 'obligation' to use privileges that are, for lack of a better term, based on luck, how will that be qualified? For example, what precisely are the privileges, and to what extent would that obligation go? For example, I'm white (75% German, 25% Hungarian, with a pedigree and family lines going back to the 1600s), in a household that gets $300k annually. Does this mean I have an obligation to toss a dollar at a homeless man, or give him a meal, set of clothes, and a shower? Or would that vary depending on whether or not the man is a 'minority'?
So if an obligation to help who we can exists, is it only to help those who we have an 'advantage' over based on race, or those who don't live as well as us?
Well, not to be terribly specific, but a few of the advantages you have are, literacy, fluency in English, no need to worry about food/shelter/clothing, access to education and spare time.
Tossing a dollar to a homeless man, even getting him fed, showered, and clothed, is a temporary fix focused on one person. Not that it isn't a good thing to do, but a lot of the problems are systemic and your privilege gives you the leisure to actually address some of those.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
If we want to consider whether or not we have a 'duty' or 'obligation' to use privileges that are, for lack of a better term, based on luck, how will that be qualified? For example, what precisely are the privileges, and to what extent would that obligation go? For example, I'm white (75% German, 25% Hungarian, with a pedigree and family lines going back to the 1600s), in a household that gets $300k annually. Does this mean I have an obligation to toss a dollar at a homeless man, or give him a meal, set of clothes, and a shower? Or would that vary depending on whether or not the man is a 'minority'?
Yes. Yes, it does.
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
If we want to consider whether or not we have a 'duty' or 'obligation' to use privileges that are, for lack of a better term, based on luck, how will that be qualified? For example, what precisely are the privileges, and to what extent would that obligation go? For example, I'm white (75% German, 25% Hungarian, with a pedigree and family lines going back to the 1600s), in a household that gets $300k annually. Does this mean I have an obligation to toss a dollar at a homeless man, or give him a meal, set of clothes, and a shower? Or would that vary depending on whether or not the man is a 'minority'?
So if an obligation to help who we can exists, is it only to help those who we have an 'advantage' over based on race, or those who don't live as well as us?
I think everyone kind of has to figure out for themselves the ways in which they can use their individual privileges to make the world a better place. You make a lot of money, so that might mean donating to Head Start or a similar organization. It might mean being politically active against people who want to use their privilege to oppress others. It might mean volunteering, teaching ESL, giving a dollar to a homeless man.
But it's up to you.
What does that mean, "family lines going back to the 1600's"? I don't know about you, but MY family line goes all the way back. To the beginning.
Quote from: Nigel on March 25, 2011, 12:37:47 AM
What does that mean, "family lines going back to the 1600's"? I don't know about you, but MY family line goes all the way back. To the beginning.
My family spontaneously generated from river mud in 1900.
Also, if you have a pedigree, you are a dog, not a human.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
:lulz:
Goes back to the 1600s as in part of my family lives in Oklahoma, and they are the family historians, and thats as far back as they can trace with surety.
Quote from: pH on March 25, 2011, 01:31:00 AM
Goes back to the 1600s as in part of my family lives in Oklahoma, and they are the family historians, and thats as far back as they can trace with surety.
Sounds more like they live in Utah.
i can trace my family history with surety back to November of 1988 when my family fell from the sky riding a snowflake. All documentation of previous family history was lost in the crash.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
I made a LARPer cry at a con once... He was standing at my booth, trying to impress a chick with his weapon. Hell, I'd never seen what LARPers used... I asked if I could see it. He puffed up, handed it over, started to tell me how it was made...
I checked it out, swung it a couple of times. "Oh, a BOFFER! Yeah, I know these, we give 'em to the five year olds so they don't hurt each other."
Chick laughed and walked away as he visibly deflated.
(http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr126/TGRR/kaddafy1.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
It's also grown men and women pretending like they are nobles in a court and otherwise playing at living in the renaissance.
Quote from: Luna on March 25, 2011, 01:38:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
I made a LARPer cry at a con once... He was standing at my booth, trying to impress a chick with his weapon. Hell, I'd never seen what LARPers used... I asked if I could see it. He puffed up, handed it over, started to tell me how it was made...
I checked it out, swung it a couple of times. "Oh, a BOFFER! Yeah, I know these, we give 'em to the five year olds so they don't hurt each other."
Chick laughed and walked away as he visibly deflated.
:lulz: Yeah, the only criteria by which a boffer can really be judged is how
little it will hurt.
Trying to compare LARP to SCA is like comparing cross-country skiing to snowboarding down a black diamond course, or a chicken tikka masala to a ghost chili-enhanced vindaloo. Yeah, one is certainly more "hardcore" than the other, but the people doing them are seeking completely different experiences.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 01:53:32 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
It's also grown men and women pretending like they are nobles in a court and otherwise playing at living in the renaissance.
This is excused by aforementioned horrible fucking beatings.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 01:56:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 01:53:32 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
It's also grown men and women pretending like they are nobles in a court and otherwise playing at living in the renaissance.
This is excused by aforementioned horrible fucking beatings.
Court? I don't have to go to court, I didn't do anything wrong! (Not that they can PROVE, anyway...)
Most events are composed of smacking other people, then a ton of awesome food, followed by sitting around a campfire drinking beer and assorted homebrewed wonders.
Quote from: Luna on March 25, 2011, 02:06:58 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 01:56:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 01:53:32 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
SCA is Larping.
No it fucking isn't. It's grown men beating the mortal shit out of each other with blunt objects. There is no running around yelling "lighting bolt!" and throwing pebbles.
It's also grown men and women pretending like they are nobles in a court and otherwise playing at living in the renaissance.
This is excused by aforementioned horrible fucking beatings.
Court? I don't have to go to court, I didn't do anything wrong! (Not that they can PROVE, anyway...)
Most events are composed of smacking other people, then a ton of awesome food, followed by sitting around a campfire drinking beer and assorted homebrewed wonders.
Sounds like Larping to me. I think you guys just go to the wrong sorts of LARPS if people are running around yelling lightning bolt.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 02:29:21 AM
Sounds like Larping to me. I think you guys just go to the wrong sorts of LARPS if people are running around yelling lightning bolt.
Someone isn't up on their 10 year old interbutt memes.
Lessee...
...Playing dress up and smashing each other with heavy fucking rattan sticks
or
...Wearing loads of mascara and pretending to be a vampire.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 01:31:28 AM
Quote from: pH on March 25, 2011, 01:31:00 AM
Goes back to the 1600s as in part of my family lives in Oklahoma, and they are the family historians, and thats as far back as they can trace with surety.
Sounds more like they live in Utah.
Hell I don't know any of my family before the 18th century. 16th is a little nuts.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:34:42 AM
Lessee...
...Playing dress up and smashing each other with heavy fucking rattan sticks
or
...Wearing loads of mascara and pretending to be a vampire.
Can't we do both? :?
Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 25, 2011, 02:36:58 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:34:42 AM
Lessee...
...Playing dress up and smashing each other with heavy fucking rattan sticks
or
...Wearing loads of mascara and pretending to be a vampire.
Can't we do both? :?
Nah. One jackass swallows a fake fang, and the whining NEVER stops...
Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 25, 2011, 02:36:58 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:34:42 AM
Lessee...
...Playing dress up and smashing each other with heavy fucking rattan sticks
or
...Wearing loads of mascara and pretending to be a vampire.
Can't we do both? :?
No. Because you'd get all fucked up on mead and wear the wrong outfit.
And then Richter would smack you with the 7 pound silly stick, and it would mean no end of paperwork.
Awwww. :cry:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:38:45 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 25, 2011, 02:36:58 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:34:42 AM
Lessee...
...Playing dress up and smashing each other with heavy fucking rattan sticks
or
...Wearing loads of mascara and pretending to be a vampire.
Can't we do both? :?
No. Because you'd get all fucked up on mead and wear the wrong outfit.
And then Richter would smack you with the 7 pound silly stick, and it would mean no end of paperwork.
Depends. If it was MY mead, Richter'd have to move quick to get there first.
Besides, anyone that fucked up is easier disposed of by tipping them into a ditch on a rainy night. Less paperwork for a tragic accidental drowning than, "oops, tripped and fell on my stick. Six times."
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
Totally not surprised you come from a long line of bastards. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
these boat wreckers, did they wreck their own boats or other people's?
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 25, 2011, 02:48:20 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
Totally not surprised you come from a long line of bastards. :)
Oh, fuck yeah. Great granny was a flapper, and utterly smashed any hopes of a proper geneology.
My family tree looks like a mangrove.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 25, 2011, 02:49:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
these boat wreckers, did they wreck their own boats or other people's?
Light fire on beach to fool ships as to where the coastline/harbor is.
Thump survivors of wreck on head, and toss back into ocean.
Take stuff.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
sheep thief makes sense, famous thief makes sense, even famous sheep makes sense, but somehow all three together does not.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:50:44 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on March 25, 2011, 02:49:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
these boat wreckers, did they wreck their own boats or other people's?
Light fire on beach to fool ships as to where the coastline/harbor is.
Thump survivors of wreck on head, and toss back into ocean.
Take stuff.
Those are my kind of boat wreckers. :lulz:
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 02:52:00 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
sheep thief makes sense, famous thief makes sense, even famous sheep makes sense, but somehow all three together does not.
Not much happens in Cornwall, apparently.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
That's fucking fantastic.
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:58:57 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
Quote from: navkat on March 25, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
I can't trace shit. My great-grandfather came to NY from Calabria under a different name because he was running from some shit in Italy.
Later, after he cleaned up his mess, the name he came under mysteriously disappeared and a bunch of Cavallaris mysteriously started running shit at South Street Seaport.
We go back, more or less, to about 1870.
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
On my dad's side, all evidence points to us being very, very untalented pirates out of Cornwall, who lasted JUST long enough to breed before getting their necks stretched. We've also been able to pin down 2 famous sheep thieves (WTF?), a whole family of boat wreckers, and a poisoner.
That's fucking fantastic.
You can't buy a family history like that. :lulz:
Dang. Farthest back we've gotten is a great-something-granddaddy who fought alongside Washington at Valley Forge.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 02:46:27 AM
But since my family INVENTED "out of wedlock", it is utterly impossible to verify anything before that on my mother's side.
:lol: That sounds like my family. When I was younger, I was very interested in trying to find my roots. But it's pretty much impossible to find
any information on my family, both sides, that's earlier than my grandparents because of all the kids out of wedlock, adoptions, etc. Hell, I bet if you look up my family's crest, it'd feature a mouthless face with the motto "we don't talk about it" written across the top. I eventually just said screw it and stopped caring altogether, lol.
I was lucky, recently to hear a line of bullshit / oral history explaining an obnoxious state highway and a curiously named area of Providence.
Olneyville is not a place to walk unwary. One gaming buddy, Drunken Dragon, strolls here often after purchasing head-shop herbs or imbibing as his name suggests, but is the only person I know who can do this with impunity. (His preferred way of relating to the locals is to cast them into the local canals for the pleasure of the brackish fish people demographic. He is also one of rare few who can get poleaxed with a 2x4 and not bat and eyelash.)
Olneyville's culinary claim to fame are the "weiners". These, so far as I know, are not classifiable as meat, or legal to sell outside of the state. While they claim they prepare these by the "NY system", no one has ever been able to explain their preparation, composition, or appeal to my satisfaction. They are cheap hot dogs of american fame, but they always leave you feeling slightly unsettled.
The titular Olneys are long gone. WAY back (post Revolution they THINK), the Olneys finally found the heat too hot, and got out of town. No one remembers why. Bootlegging, cattle rustling, daughter macking, claim jumping, or horse theivery were suspected. It was likely ALL of these, just one set it off. So the Olney's got out of Providence.
Before they went, they stripped the house down to a bare frame, and every cow they drove west had some peice of the Olney house strapped to it. Windows, Mantles, crown molding, doors, all found a bovine lift off and away.
Back then, the arm of the law was long, but not that long. In fact it was exactly 59 miles long. The Olneys, swamp yanke practical, went 60. And Hartford CT happened. The path their goods ladden cattle trod is now Rte. 6. Those who know either may, as I did, get the dawning sense of "Damn. It makes sense now."
13 pages and still no Cramulus..
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2011, 12:22:40 PM
I was lucky, recently to hear a line of bullshit / oral history explaining an obnoxious state highway and a curiously named area of Providence.
Olneyville is not a place to walk unwary. One gaming buddy, Drunken Dragon, strolls here often after purchasing head-shop herbs or imbibing as his name suggests, but is the only person I know who can do this with impunity. (His preferred way of relating to the locals is to cast them into the local canals for the pleasure of the brackish fish people demographic. He is also one of rare few who can get poleaxed with a 2x4 and not bat and eyelash.)
Olneyville's culinary claim to fame are the "weiners". These, so far as I know, are not classifiable as meat, or legal to sell outside of the state. While they claim they prepare these by the "NY system", no one has ever been able to explain their preparation, composition, or appeal to my satisfaction. They are cheap hot dogs of american fame, but they always leave you feeling slightly unsettled.
The titular Olneys are long gone. WAY back (post Revolution they THINK), the Olneys finally found the heat too hot, and got out of town. No one remembers why. Bootlegging, cattle rustling, daughter macking, claim jumping, or horse theivery were suspected. It was likely ALL of these, just one set it off. So the Olney's got out of Providence.
Before they went, they stripped the house down to a bare frame, and every cow they drove west had some peice of the Olney house strapped to it. Windows, Mantles, crown molding, doors, all found a bovine lift off and away.
Back then, the arm of the law was long, but not that long. In fact it was exactly 59 miles long. The Olneys, swamp yanke practical, went 60. And Hartford CT happened. The path their goods ladden cattle trod is now Rte. 6. Those who know either may, as I did, get the dawning sense of "Damn. It makes sense now."
"Slightly unsettled" may be an epic understatement. I was fed three of these just before my first time out on a boat.
I'm still not sure if I got mildly seasick, or my stomach just decided to take offense at the presence of the damn things.
(Hey, at least I got it out over the back of the boat, no cleanup required...)
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 25, 2011, 12:34:00 PM
13 pages and still no Cramulus..
Contacted him through FB. He's taking a break to work on personal headspace stuff.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 25, 2011, 01:00:56 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 25, 2011, 12:34:00 PM
13 pages and still no Cramulus..
Contacted him through FB. He's taking a break to work on personal headspace stuff.
someone else told me the same thing. he'll be missed. :)
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: navkat on March 24, 2011, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 24, 2011, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 02:53:10 PMThe word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton
Then why use it, if it's not the actual point? Why not just say "middle class"?
I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.
Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.
How so? How are middle class black people exempt?
I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to. So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable. I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.
I wonder more about the other way around, technically it makes sense because (in America) there are a lot more middle class white people than non-white people, but what about the lower class white people?
That's why I agree with Roger and Cpt.Utopia
"I will agree that there are economic issues. I will agree that there are racial factors in economic issues. But I don't think we project any barriers to other ethnicities."
"It's a white herring."
Maybe it falls nicely together in America, but it's still a herring. If I look at my own surroundings, it'd be ridiculous to outreach to non white people because Discordia is not about race, it'd be much more useful to outreach to lower class people in general, IF we're going to reach out to anyone.
And in fact in the lower strata of income, HERE there's much more intermingling between races than in the middle and upper, it doesn't make sense to me to bring race into the picture, at all. I suspect it's a bigger deal in the US though (probably because the Dutch didn't bring their slaves home very much--we committed our fair share of atrocities though). Most of the racial variety in the Netherlands originates from immigrant waves over the past 50 years or so.
If I were going to address this issue, I'd sooner take up some volunteer work helping immigrants and doing multi-culti projects (both of which are in the long- and shortterm books, respectively), and bring in my Discordian views doing that stuff (which I'd do anywhere anyway some way or another), rather than doing Discordian activities targeting non-white people. That just strikes me as odd and counterproductive.
If you think that using the word "white" is a useful hot button to make people uncomfortable and re-assess their views, it'll be kind of puzzling to the non-American people on this board, cause you're arguing from a cultural perspective I'm quite unfamiliar with (read about it, but can't "feel" it). Though maybe I'll understand better after I visited there.
As I mentioned, there are racial/cultural shifts happening in my region, and like everyone, that's my point of context... I can't presume to find a universal language that everyone speaks. I'm sure the Netherlands has its own hot buttons! Perhaps you can find them.
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
with a pedigree
So do you have purple ribbon blood?
Quote from: Nurse Freeky on March 25, 2011, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
with a pedigree
So do you have purple ribbon blood?
They bleed certificates and awards when you cut them. At night they huddle in a corner and fear someone might find a drop of red blood in them one day.
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2011, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Nurse Freeky on March 25, 2011, 04:42:02 PM
Quote from: pH on March 24, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
with a pedigree
So do you have purple ribbon blood?
They bleed certificates and awards when you cut them. At night they huddle in a corner and fear someone might find a drop of red blood in them one day.
:lulz:
I was asking because my old Snowball was PR bred. We had the papers to prove it.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 24, 2011, 03:55:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
I'm generally of the opinion that racism is learned from parents first, reinforced in childhood by being with other children who've learned the same shit, and either unlearned in early adulthood, or otherwise carried through life like a virus, ready to infect their children as well.
Balls. My parents were/are the classic aging lefties, and my sister is a racist shitneck.
Quote from: Pickled Starfish on March 24, 2011, 03:34:28 PM
Is it any different than the anti-italianism of the late 1800's/ early 1900's? And was that, in your opinion, driven by the same thinking?
No different. Same with the anti-Irish thing of the same period.
It's easier for the upper-class to tell the middle and working classes that [insert recent immigrant population] are taking our jobs than creating new jobs in the first place. Cuz that would mean they'd have to pay more people for working for them. And the middle and working classes buy into it, while the upper class sits back with a cognac and a cubano.
you believe it's origin is from the upper class instead of cultural, religious, and language differences being the driving factor?
The fact is that when Italians of that era began migrating here in mass, they WERE working for less wages in order to survive, suffered from religious discrimination for being catholic and faced other common stereotypes.
Racism also exists among rich people of different ethnicity but similar socioeconomic background. How does that fit in with what you said? And how is this message being delivered to the working and middle class people? I know newspapers of the time could be pretty damn blatently racists, but considering literacy rates among the poor of that time, it doesn't account for the sheer amount of it happening in the public arena.
I believe that the origins of it are no longer the driving factor, but rather a convenient excuse. Racism/cultural and religious differences have always made convenient excuses.
I'll give an example in a different setting, because it's one that I have some familiarity with. Prior to the partition of the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland, the Irish Republican movement was made up just as much of Protestants and atheists as they were of Catholics. Indeed, some of the leaders of the Republican movement were Protestant. Theobald Wolfetone jumps to mind (My father pitched the idea of naming me Wolfetone. My mother shot that down right away). However, since most of the Protestants lived in the north, it was easy for the British to justify partitioning Ireland based on old tensions between Catholics and Protestants. Rather convenient too, because if I recall correctly, most of the industry in Ireland at the time was located in Ulster. The factory owners were Protestant and loyal to London.
Print isn't the only way that you can disseminate these ideas. Preachers are pretty good at it, and nowadays you also have radio and television. Radio and television is especially important for that these days.
As far as how racism fits in with the upper-class with people who discriminate against people of the same tax bracket? I don't know. The upper-class people that I've known don't really give a crap about race, but then again, I live in Massachusetts. Not saying that racism doesn't exist here, but if someone here is racist they're going to keep their mouth shut. In my experience actual racism is embraced by lower class people who need someone to blame for their inability to move up in the world.
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.
hmmmmmmmmmm wait a minute
there's something ELSE that ties in here that hasn't been mentioned yet.
it's "the AMERICAN DREAM" philosophy.
unsurprisingly, you don't get that very much, outside of America.
basically the American Dream is when you're born lower class, as long as you work very hard, YOU TOO can make it BIG.
first corollary to this is "as long as you're white"
(second corollary to this is "as long as you're very lucky"--aka the American Dream is bullshit)
point is, from that idea, the issue of white lower class people not working their way up into middle/upper class is much less an issue of privilege than it is for non-white lower class people.
my point is, it's still an issue of privilege for white lower class people as well. maybe not as much, but especially here (with a different cultural background of racism), significant enough not to ignore, IMO. I guess that's why it bugs me. From a Discordian point of view I'd rather approach lower class lack of privilege in general, than focus on the race element in it, which is only part of the problem.
IMO.
I hope I didn't say anything too unsensitive in this post.
Quote from: NigelI'm sure the Netherlands has its own hot buttons! Perhaps you can find them.
Hey, that's a great idea! I'll have to think about this.
My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census. 3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed. Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2011, 05:38:12 PM
My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census. 3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed. Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."
The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 25, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2011, 05:38:12 PM
My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census. 3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed. Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."
The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.
It is never too late to have a happy childhood.
Just saying.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 05:43:15 PM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 25, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2011, 05:38:12 PM
My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census. 3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed. Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."
The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.
It is never too late to have a happy childhood.
Just saying.
It's true.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 25, 2011, 05:43:15 PM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 25, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 25, 2011, 05:38:12 PM
My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census. 3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed. Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."
The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.
It is never too late to have a happy childhood.
Just saying.
fuck yes, this. my childhood didn't even begin to get good until my mid 20's. It's been a fucking blast ever since.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on March 24, 2011, 10:36:35 PM
OMF: not intrinsecally tied to discordianism
whoa, what? the stuff that is being discussed in O:MF is pretty much the entire reason why I googled "discordian forum" in the first place, many years ago (how I arrived here). it's definitely my favourite sub-forum, and wish it was much much more active (even though it's pretty active, MOAR is good :P)
QuoteAI: some interest to foreigners, but sometimes it gets flooded with local news that arent of general interest
quite interesting to me, actually. it helps that Cain provides insightful commentary from a not USA-centric view, but news about America, especially where it deals with international matters, is shown on the mainstream news here as well. I like AI for the alternative viewpoints. It's just the local American news that doesn't really interest me.
QuoteDC: somewhat like OMF
could possibly be my second favourite subforum ;-)
Hold on... What's "DC"?
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PMAmericans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?
Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL :) In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes :)
*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 25, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Hold on... What's "DC"?
the secret forum? I haven't figured out how to get into it yet..
but I will. oh yes, I will.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on March 25, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Hold on... What's "DC"?
It's the mean amplitude offset of a waveform. Usually undesirable in recording and audio processing.
It's okay, rather technical term. Understandable you never came across it.
Seriously, I think he was talking about Discordian Recipes, and accidentally abbreviated Discordian Cooking in his head or something, at least that's what I was assuming.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 05:15:56 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.
hmmmmmmmmmm wait a minute
there's something ELSE that ties in here that hasn't been mentioned yet.
it's "the AMERICAN DREAM" philosophy.
unsurprisingly, you don't get that very much, outside of America.
basically the American Dream is when you're born lower class, as long as you work very hard, YOU TOO can make it BIG.
first corollary to this is "as long as you're white"
(second corollary to this is "as long as you're very lucky"--aka the American Dream is bullshit)
point is, from that idea, the issue of white lower class people not working their way up into middle/upper class is much less an issue of privilege than it is for non-white lower class people.
my point is, it's still an issue of privilege for white lower class people as well. maybe not as much, but especially here (with a different cultural background of racism), significant enough not to ignore, IMO. I guess that's why it bugs me. From a Discordian point of view I'd rather approach lower class lack of privilege in general, than focus on the race element in it, which is only part of the problem.
IMO.
I hope I didn't say anything too unsensitive in this post.
Quote from: NigelI'm sure the Netherlands has its own hot buttons! Perhaps you can find them.
Hey, that's a great idea! I'll have to think about this.
The American Dream absolutely applies to non-whites as well. Traditionally they've been a bit better at it, there's a lot of stories of the immigrant who arrived with 10 bucks in his pocket and the shirt on his back and built a successful business with the sweat of his brow.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PMAmericans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?
Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL :) In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes :)
*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.
I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white. So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever)
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PMAmericans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?
Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL :) In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes :)
*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.
I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white. So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever)
All my relatives were albinos, except for Uncle Herman who could tan when he went trout fishing. And I always did like him best.
So I suppose your theory is not without some merit.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PMAmericans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?
Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL :) In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes :)
*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.
I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white. So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever)
But I identify with the whitest part of my heritage, British-ish.
I think the reason Americans tend to identify with "The Old Country" (wherever it is) is because the USA as a Nation is so young. There seem to be different classes of "White" America, not necessarily defined by wealth, but on things like whether your Ancestors came with the Pilgrim Fathers, or later, with some other dynamic that brought Europeans flooding to the New World, like The Gold Rush, or any of the diasporas from numerous Civil Wars, or Religious pogroms. I suppose the various classes, when looked at like this, start with the WASPs with "Old Money" the ones who invested in Lincoln, and won. Also near the top are the Old Southern Families, who lost. But Old Money, definitely has gravitas. Then there's the people who made it big, in the Gold Rush, Californians, new money, still influential, but considered vulgar, and upstart by the Old Money lot. Then there's the people who came as Religious Refugees, the Quakers, Shakers, Ranters, Amish, etc. They are still considered proper Americans, but different because of their Cultural rejection of most people's idea of "The American Dream". The fact that they have built their own, distinct version of the Dream probably has a lot to do with this. Then there's the Scandinavian Americans, good Protestant folks mostly, and they gravitated towards the need for Arable Farmers, and the Mid-West still has more of this blood around than I thought, before I checked some stuff out. At the other end of the "White America" spectrum seem to be those whose ancestors were Catholic immigrants. Especially the Irish. This might have to do with the fact that most of them turned up in the middle of a Civil War, uneducated, pugnacious, penniless and starving, in numbers that could potentially swing the War either way. But their Papist faith certainly didn't add to their popularity, for some reason. Then there's the American Jews. I don't know to what extent Jews are considered as white in the US, but the Jews have always been good at fitting in, culturally, while still retaining a strong identity, distinct and different to whichever Country they settled. The main two factors here, I think, are simply that Jews haven't had a common "Old Country" for a lot longer than any other immigrants, and are well experienced at being a diaspora, and having to fit around other cultures, and of course, the cultural advantage that they have a History of being extremely successful in the World's Financial, and Legal Institutions.
This is just an outsiders hastily put together viewpoint of how America seems to us, so I apologize if I've just insulted, or snubbed generations of anyones families, it wasn't intentional. (Notice how I carefully avoided those of Italian, and particularly Sicilian ancestry? I might be culturally ignorant in some respects, but I'm not stupid)
I think Trip and BadBeast have a pretty good handle on why white Americans identify as [European Nation]-Americans.
Side notes:
Jewish people are considered white. They usually get lumped in as just Jewish, but every so often it's Ukrainian Jewish or Polish Jewish. I knew of at least one person from a Jewish family that referred to himself as German-American on the grounds that he was an atheist.
Also- as far as white people identifying with the least white part of their ancestry, I've noticed that white people like talking about being descended from Natives and such too. I identify with my Irish heritage though because most of my ancestry is Irish and my father was an Irish immigrant. My Scottish and German ancestry at this point is so distant and dilute as to be not even really worth mentioning.
Don't look at me. I'm a plain ol' American mongrel. Got some German and Dutch blood, we're pretty sure of, but... Meh. Interesting in an academic sense, but never really made much difference.
This thread offends my Italo-Irish-Greco-Turkic-Polish-Japanese-Native-Americanness.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PMAmericans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?
Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL :) In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes :)
*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.
I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white. So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever)
This is another take on the "one drop rule", which holds that if any of your ancestors wasn't white, then you can't be white because you're "colored" by your non-white ancestry. In discussions about racism, it is sometimes referred to as "marked", as opposed to the "un-marked" status of whiteness.
However,
think you might notice that very few people who are not visibly "marked" actually claim to be black.
Hey! Now wait a fucking minute ...
I'M TOTALLY DESCENDED FROM NATIVES :D :D
:banana:
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 11:41:47 PM
Hey! Now wait a fucking minute ...
I'M TOTALLY DESCENDED FROM NATIVES :D :D
:banana:
You are... and actually that touches a lot on the "authenticity" discussion, which is what's behind both most Americans dwelling on their paltry and sometimes imaginary American indian heritage, and also most discussions about hipsterdom.
In the Netherlands, I get the impression that you have less tension about "authenticity", so both those discussions probably seem more abstract and kind of useless to you than they do to most Americans.
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PM
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
You call them "funny sounding crackers"
That works too. Fuck the French.
Quote from: Nigel on March 25, 2011, 11:44:36 PM
In the Netherlands, I get the impression that you have less tension about "authenticity", so both those discussions probably seem more abstract and kind of useless to you than they do to most Americans.
Yeah, I think that's right. In fact, the youth here that does care a lot about their "authenticity" seems to have gotten the idea that it's important entirely from American cultural influence (which we have a lot of, of course. your films and TV series and music are immensely popular here, often outshadowing the local culture art, often pushing it into "meh, pretentious intellectual films" segments (a few exceptions here and there))
The irony is, they often take American cultural icons, styles and culture (or what they perceive to be such), in order to attain this authenticity ...
Hiphop music / lifestyle is especially big in this. ALTHOUGH, I must point out that Dutch hiphop music is pretty big as well, lots of Dutch hiphop artists really trying to put actual Dutch roots in the genre. But even then still a lot of them measure their authenticity from being "street" or "urban", something which is a direct copy from the way certain types of US hiphop do that.
Writing this, there's loads more examples coming to mind, but I don't want to turn this into a Dutch culture 101. Well one thing, they actually use those words, in English, "street", "urban", "cool", "dig", "hot" and many more. Straight from MTV and American media of course. Then a funny thing happens, if you literally translate the words, they sound real silly in Dutch. So people start using them ironically, but before you know it they catch on and people use both the Dutch and English words.
This is very different from the French, who don't want any foreign loan-words and translate anything immediately. German is kind of in between, but the Dutch, really soak up American culture. So much, they want to have YOUR authenticity :lulz:
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PMWhat the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
Only thing I can come up with is "pulled straight from the mud/clay". Which means something like "born and raised" except more generations back. Hard to explain, like the mud was there already ever since the land was there (or as soon as we liberated it from the sea), and that's where your roots are from.
Sounds totally what an American Native would say, don't you think? :) Except our clay isn't red. (and it's not used in any sort of mystical/spiritual sense, just a figure of speech)
That's a neat phrase. :)
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PM
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
We just refer to them as "fucking French"
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PM
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
We just refer to them as "fucking French"
Considering that most of the English ARE French...
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 26, 2011, 02:40:26 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PM
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
We just refer to them as "fucking French"
Considering that most of the English ARE French...
Zut alors!
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 26, 2011, 02:40:26 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PM
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
We just refer to them as "fucking French"
Considering that most of the English ARE French...
That's an appalling thing to say to an Englishman, and it cuts me to the quick! In what way are most of the English French?
"La Bretagne" mon cher Badbeast.
L'histoire anglaise is pretty clear on how much back and forth you guys had for centuries...
That's largely a myth, perpetuated by the French, to disguise the fact that they are mostly descended from other Frenchmen.
:lulz: Mais bien sur--I mean, but of course!
But I believe the French say the same thing about us, (from a safe distance of course) but they say it in French. (A rudimentary language made up of grunts, shrugs, and frowns that no Englishman understands)
nasal grunts and snorts, to be most precise.
Whatever it is, it's terribly harsh on the ear. I think they deliberately speak it, just to annoy the fuck out of anyone unfortunate enough to be in earshot. They must know how mush it grates on people, because they speak it all the time. Serves 'em right, really.
I also heard they sometimes fart in our general direction.
I think that's just the smell of Paris, when the wind is in the south. I don't know how they can live like it. I suppose the stink of garlic over everything must mask it slightly, but still, . . . . . Last Summer they had to ban French Women from getting in the Sea, because they couldn't get the smell out of the fish! That's just nasty.
Tres drole! Aussi, ils mangent des grenouilles et escargot.
Ils mangent n'importe quoi a base de carbone. Degoutant! :x
What kind of crazy jibber jabber is that then? Welsh?
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 01:13:36 PM
What kind of crazy jibber jabber is that then? Welsh?
Don't let the double L's fool you. There aren't enough y's and w's for it to be Welsh.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:57:25 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 26, 2011, 02:40:26 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 25, 2011, 11:47:16 PM
What the HELL do they call Native Europeans? If you're French, you don't go back and say, "Oh I'm Gallo-Roman, Celtic and Baltic." Do you?
We just refer to them as "fucking French"
Considering that most of the English ARE French...
That's an appalling thing to say to an Englishman, and it cuts me to the quick! In what way are most of the English French?
Ever see the Bayeux Tapestry? It tells the story why.
They weren't French,they were Normans! Danish Vikings who'd conquered Normandy, and settled for a few generations. But even they couldn't stand the whiny tone of the Gallic Natives, or the comedy diet, so they decided to move somewhere with a bit more culture, and proper food.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:09:46 PM
They weren't French,they were Normans! Danish Vikings who'd conquered Normandy, and settled for a few generations. But even they couldn't stand the whiny tone of the Gallic Natives, or the comedy diet, so they decided to move somewhere with a bit more culture, and proper food.
....I'm sorry, did you say
proper food?
I say proper food, I meant in the "not snails, or frogs" sense of the word.
ETA: Or Horses. They still eat them.
I dunno man, the denizens of Britannia are not too far off in culinary tastes. I mean, you guys eat fucking kidneys. That's where piss is made!
Very nice they are too. Lightly grilled, as part of a full English Breakfast. Not an amphibian or mollusc in sight.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:25:26 PM
Very nice they are too. Lightly grilled, as part of a full English Breakfast. Not an amphibian or mollusc in sight.
Yeah but your national dish, fish and chips, is just as disgusting as snail eating in my book. Warm-blooded or gtfo
Nothing wrong with a bit of fish. Nice fresh Turbot or Megrim, (In breadcrumbs, not batter) And our chips, are just the same as your "French Fries". But you seem to be misinformed about our National dish. It's Chicken Vindaloo.
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:38:32 PM
Nothing wrong with a bit of fish. Nice fresh Turbot or Megrim, (In breadcrumbs, not batter) And our chips, are just the same as your "French Fries". But you seem to be misinformed about our National dish. It's Chicken Vindaloo.
Chicken vindaloo I can get down with. If the British Empire was good for anything, it was expanding the items on an English menu.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on March 26, 2011, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on March 26, 2011, 02:38:32 PM
Nothing wrong with a bit of fish. Nice fresh Turbot or Megrim, (In breadcrumbs, not batter) And our chips, are just the same as your "French Fries". But you seem to be misinformed about our National dish. It's Chicken Vindaloo.
Chicken vindaloo I can get down with. If the British Empire was good for anything, it was expanding the items on an English menu.
Yeah, but don't forget the Gold, and the Diamonds, it was brilliant for Treasure, and Taxes. Good for putting down crazy little Corsican Pirates, who somehow convinced the French they could fight. Great opportunities for our Merchant classes too. Those "Tea" Clippers were great for the India ~ China run. Even with their holds full of Silver, nothing could catch themon the home run.
It wasn't
all about food you know!
Quote from: BadBeast on March 25, 2011, 10:39:27 PM
I think the reason Americans tend to identify with "The Old Country" (wherever it is) is because the USA as a Nation is so young. There seem to be different classes of "White" America, not necessarily defined by wealth, but on things like whether your Ancestors came with the Pilgrim Fathers, or later, with some other dynamic that brought Europeans flooding to the New World, like The Gold Rush, or any of the diasporas from numerous Civil Wars, or Religious pogroms. I suppose the various classes, when looked at like this, start with the WASPs with "Old Money" the ones who invested in Lincoln, and won. Also near the top are the Old Southern Families, who lost. But Old Money, definitely has gravitas. Then there's the people who made it big, in the Gold Rush, Californians, new money, still influential, but considered vulgar, and upstart by the Old Money lot. Then there's the people who came as Religious Refugees, the Quakers, Shakers, Ranters, Amish, etc. They are still considered proper Americans, but different because of their Cultural rejection of most people's idea of "The American Dream". The fact that they have built their own, distinct version of the Dream probably has a lot to do with this. Then there's the Scandinavian Americans, good Protestant folks mostly, and they gravitated towards the need for Arable Farmers, and the Mid-West still has more of this blood around than I thought, before I checked some stuff out. At the other end of the "White America" spectrum seem to be those whose ancestors were Catholic immigrants. Especially the Irish. This might have to do with the fact that most of them turned up in the middle of a Civil War, uneducated, pugnacious, penniless and starving, in numbers that could potentially swing the War either way. But their Papist faith certainly didn't add to their popularity, for some reason. Then there's the American Jews. I don't know to what extent Jews are considered as white in the US, but the Jews have always been good at fitting in, culturally, while still retaining a strong identity, distinct and different to whichever Country they settled. The main two factors here, I think, are simply that Jews haven't had a common "Old Country" for a lot longer than any other immigrants, and are well experienced at being a diaspora, and having to fit around other cultures, and of course, the cultural advantage that they have a History of being extremely successful in the World's Financial, and Legal Institutions.
This is just an outsiders hastily put together viewpoint of how America seems to us, so I apologize if I've just insulted, or snubbed generations of anyones families, it wasn't intentional. (Notice how I carefully avoided those of Italian, and particularly Sicilian ancestry? I might be culturally ignorant in some respects, but I'm not stupid)
Jews are white now, but it's a recent thing.
They're probably whiter than the Amish in that you can identify an Amish person by looking at him and you can't a Jew.
Quote from: Nigel on March 25, 2011, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 25, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 25, 2011, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 24, 2011, 07:11:36 PMAmericans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.
But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?
Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL :) In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes :)
*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.
I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white. So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever)
This is another take on the "one drop rule", which holds that if any of your ancestors wasn't white, then you can't be white because you're "colored" by your non-white ancestry. In discussions about racism, it is sometimes referred to as "marked", as opposed to the "un-marked" status of whiteness.
However, think you might notice that very few people who are not visibly "marked" actually claim to be black.
The friends of mine who look white and have just a little bit of black in them do it in a sort of tongue in cheek way, but it's a strong part of their identity.
One drop rule. Look it up, it might give you a better idea of why that is.
Also, friends who look white might not have families who look white or identify as white. That "tiny bit" is probably more than you think, if they self-identify as black.
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
You misunderstand affirmative action. It's not that they are required to accept a "minority" before a white guy with the same scores; it's that they are required to attempt to represent the population around them, so if the general population is 10% black, and their current enrollment is only 8% black, they are required to apply affirmative action guidelines by being preferential toward blacks UNTIL their black enrollment reaches 10%. It also works the other way, meaning that if the white population was at 60%, yet they only had 50% white enrollment, they would be required to apply affirmative action guidelines by being preferential toward whites UNTIL they reached 60% white enrollment.
AND ALL THAT IS IF, AND ONLY IF, THEY RECEIVE FEDERAL FUNDING.
What Affirmative action is
intended to do is to help offset the automatic privilege white people in the US tend to experience simply by being white, without introducing a new, unfair privilege, simply by mandating that entities that receive Federal funding adjust their hiring practices so that their employees/alumni reflect, by percentage, their surrounding population.
"Authenticity" doesn't provide any benefit to most people at all, other than psychological. The guy who is 1/32nd black isn't "legally black".
If you research scholarships a little better, you will find that there are scholarships for everything imaginable, including being Hungarian or the son of an Irish police officer.
I just wish people would make an effort to understand these things a little better before sounding like Teabaggers, or petulant little boys who think the poor kids get better toys than they do.
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
About the only ethnicity that get something close to a real free ride are certain native American tribes, and that is because they have a treaty with the federal government that outlines this, as part of the deal for the federal government having taken all their land and stuck them on a reservation. Membership is also determined by the tribal government, so it's not something that just anyone can claim, even if they are actually descended from members of the tribe.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic
identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on March 27, 2011, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
About the only ethnicity that get something close to a real free ride are certain native American tribes, and that is because they have a treaty with the federal government that outlines this, as part of the deal for the federal government having taken all their land and stuck them on a reservation. Membership is also determined by the tribal government, so it's not something that just anyone can claim, even if they are actually descended from members of the tribe.
Yup, my girlfriend is in this exact situation (A church burned down with birth/marriage records about 100 years ago), so no Tribal status for her (even though it's widely acknowledged that her great-great grandfather founded the town that hosts the major tribe Casino, she can't 'prove it').
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
Jesus Christ. It's bad enough that Weltburger is sniffing around again, and now we have some Michael Savage-listening Pay'Bucker complaining that he may have to use his own assets to go to school.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
Jesus Christ. It's bad enough that Weltburger is sniffing around again, and now we have some Michael Savage-listening Pay'Bucker complaining that he may have to use his own assets to go to school.
*perks up*
twatburger is back? Where pray tell? :evil:
Quote from: Khara on March 29, 2011, 10:25:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
Jesus Christ. It's bad enough that Weltburger is sniffing around again, and now we have some Michael Savage-listening Pay'Bucker complaining that he may have to use his own assets to go to school.
*perks up*
twatburger is back? Where pray tell? :evil:
Pogs thread, tried for a derail, and FOR ONCE, everyone just blew past him.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:26:38 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 29, 2011, 10:25:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
Jesus Christ. It's bad enough that Weltburger is sniffing around again, and now we have some Michael Savage-listening Pay'Bucker complaining that he may have to use his own assets to go to school.
*perks up*
twatburger is back? Where pray tell? :evil:
Pogs thread, tried for a derail, and FOR ONCE, everyone just blew past him.
thank you!
Quote from: Khara on March 29, 2011, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:26:38 PM
Quote from: Khara on March 29, 2011, 10:25:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
Jesus Christ. It's bad enough that Weltburger is sniffing around again, and now we have some Michael Savage-listening Pay'Bucker complaining that he may have to use his own assets to go to school.
*perks up*
twatburger is back? Where pray tell? :evil:
Pogs thread, tried for a derail, and FOR ONCE, everyone just blew past him.
thank you!
Please don't respond to him in that thread.
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
Aww, you poor moneyed white person! Does honkey need a hug?
:mullet:
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
So what?
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 29, 2011, 11:26:50 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
Aww, you poor moneyed white person! Does honkey need a hug?
:mullet:
I laughed so hard I got sparkles in front of my eyes. :lulz:
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 29, 2011, 11:26:50 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
Aww, you poor moneyed white person! Does honkey need a hug?
:mullet:
:lulz:
:mittens: ECH
pH, quit feeling entitled, beeawtch.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
Most sources of financial aid for those whose
families would not be able to afford to send their children to a university. Most sources of financial aid are not for little children whose families want them to forge their way in the world.
Now shut the fuck up you spoiled little shit.
FYI, you can go to a community college part time and work part time and oh my fucking gawds, pay for the first two years of fucking college your self.
Little fucking bitch.
Still catching up after the holiday, but here's my take for what its worth...
1. I think, based on my chats with him, that Cram took a break because he saw a potential in this forum that he no longer sees. Cramulus tends, I think, to be a evangelical Discordian and he wants as many venues to evangelize from as possible. This forum, while it may good for many things, is probably not really good for evangelism. I think Cram finally realized that and is dealing with that disappointment.
2. I think several people hit key contributors to the lack of diversity in Discordianism. I saw an equal lack of diversity in a number of philosophy based lj groups and similar forums. Minorities in the US are predominantly fire and brimstone christians (or catholics for the hispanics) and this stuff is pretty close to blasphemy. Hell, there are few minority pagans (for the prominent Wicca-like varieties).
3. In my opinion... evangelism, outreach, conversion are all very bad ideas. I did that for a large chunk of my life... and I get to live with the fact that there are still whole families that will die before they take blood... or let their child die, because I was convincing enough to convert them. Sure I think Discordianism is great... but I once thought Jehovah's Witnesses were great. I don't see a command in the PD, or in any Discordian philosophy that says "Go forth and find the sheep and bring them in". This is Discordia, the sheep will end up on the spit if they come here.
The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.
And whats wrong with that, if thats how we want to be?
Then 3/ You either drop out of College or your tightarsed family cough up some spondoolys.
Why not just refuse to go unless they give you some food money, or something? Or will they cut your trust fund that you'll get as a reward for finishing College on the bones of your arse, if you show any dissent?
Either way, I don't give a rat's arse, because . . . well, I just don't.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
Still catching up after the holiday, but here's my take for what its worth...
1. I think, based on my chats with him, that Cram took a break because he saw a potential in this forum that he no longer sees. Cramulus tends, I think, to be a evangelical Discordian and he wants as many venues to evangelize from as possible. This forum, while it may good for many things, is probably not really good for evangelism. I think Cram finally realized that and is dealing with that disappointment.
2. I think several people hit key contributors to the lack of diversity in Discordianism. I saw an equal lack of diversity in a number of philosophy based lj groups and similar forums. Minorities in the US are predominantly fire and brimstone christians (or catholics for the hispanics) and this stuff is pretty close to blasphemy. Hell, there are few minority pagans (for the prominent Wicca-like varieties).
3. In my opinion... evangelism, outreach, conversion are all very bad ideas. I did that for a large chunk of my life... and I get to live with the fact that there are still whole families that will die before they take blood... or let their child die, because I was convincing enough to convert them. Sure I think Discordianism is great... but I once thought Jehovah's Witnesses were great. I don't see a command in the PD, or in any Discordian philosophy that says "Go forth and find the sheep and bring them in". This is Discordia, the sheep will end up on the spit if they come here.
The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.
And whats wrong with that, if thats how we want to be?
That's really good to know, that there are more of us fuckers doing different shit, in a different stylee, and there is still chance for anyone with a different take on the whole thing to find a group that they will prosper in. I did a bit of lurking about in The German's Forum, and they are doing it differently to us, but still very much Discordian. More structured maybe, and tending to swing a little more towards Political activism / anarchy, Techno Music, Dance Drugs, and being implausibly polite to each other. Really nice people too, from what I saw. Sent me a couple of friendly emails, and a link or two. They are quite concerned with the huge rise of Neo-Fascism in Germany at the moment, which is understandable, seeing as how things like that can get out of hand. No old bones on the forum floor there, or virtual screams, sobs, or other signs of decent honest spaggotry, or wompyness, but I do seem to remember some punnery going on, but it may have been my twisted google translator. Keep meaning to go back and check them out some more. I mean, the War and shit, it's all over and now, and a few years behind us but still a bit weird thinking our Grandfathers, and our Great-Grandfathers did such a fucking enthusiastic job of trying to wipe each other out. Twice. I much prefer this non-aggressive Anglo/Teutonic generation, although my Ancestors may be spinning, but fuck them, they're all dead. They had their go, and managed to nearly ensure my generation were never even conceived.
Now it seems there's enough of us for an International Coalition of Discordian Dissemblage to argue vehemently against. (In public) then maybe create some covert Ops with other groups, and invade Parguay, or Iceland. Just an idea, anyway.
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
As I'm sure you can see, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy for "but nobody will hand me my life on a silver platter" around here. In a dozen years, if you pull your head out of your ass, figure out a way to make it work, get your degree because you fucking EARNED it, as opposed to having it handed to you, you might actually appreciate what it's worth, and, if you're a real human as opposed to a shaved monkey, you might appreciate that the fact that your parents made you actually rely on yourself made you a better person.
So, here's a thought. Instead of sitting around here whining about how bad you've got it because you can't get list A of scholarships, why don't you look around, and maybe think about asking for advice on how to work with what you've got? I know at least ONE poster on this board actually does this financial aid shit for a living, and might, if you haven't managed to annoy them beyond wanting to deal with you, actually be willing to help you figure it out.
Unless, of course, you'd rather just whine about how unfair life is.
Guess what. THAT doesn't go away.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 02, 2011, 02:58:29 AM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
Most sources of financial aid for those whose families would not be able to afford to send their children to a university. Most sources of financial aid are not for little children whose families want them to forge their way in the world.
Now shut the fuck up you spoiled little shit.
FYI, you can go to a community college part time and work part time and oh my fucking gawds, pay for the first two years of fucking college your self.
Little fucking bitch.
Thank you. Spoiled little shits don't even know what it's like to not have a safety net.
Hey Ratatosk, Turks are white, you retard. Just saying.
Oh my god. Ratatosk. I just actually thoroughly read your whole post and PLEASE SHUT UP before your stunning ignorance taints the whole board.
Yeah, the coloreds think this pagan stuff is blasphemy.
Err, so "white" is a magic skin color world wide? I had no idea. Here I was thinking that someone raised as a Muslim in a country where skin color varies from light/whitish to darkish maybe it would be an example of something other than white privilege. My bad.
And as for people who are dominantly raised in fire and brimstone churches (myself included) yeah, I think blasphemy is a strong aspect to the idea of paganism. After all, if you're taught that doing magic will invite the demons to take over your life, it tends to make you shy away.
But by all means, Nigel, don't bother to discuss... shit flinging is so much better.
Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 03:41:05 PM
Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.
Well I'll make sure that the friends I met are aware of how bad those deep tans can be for their health. I mean the whole village had kind of an olive tone to it, I can't imagine the skin cancer rates... and those poor sods from the kurdish areas must really hit the tanning booths...
I'll also let my friends who are black know that they have no culture that is based heavily on chirstianity. I'm sure that they will appreciate that their perceptons of religion are terribly uninformed and flawed.
Thanks for the corrections Nigel. I don't know what I would ever do without your wisdom.
ETA: I'll also let them know that growing up as poor Muslims in a small fishing village is analogous to being privileged white middle-class Americans. I'm sure they will agree.
OUCH, GUYS
i don't know what qualifies as having/ coming from "money", but, my family, especially when i was 18, was not hurtin' for cash. but, because i was the "black sheep" for one, and interested in studying what i was actually interested in (after five years i quit correcting their notion that i was studying psychology because neither of my folks could remember the word philosophy) i never once got financial support from them. i paid my way through school, but let me tell you how effective it is to take two, maybe three classes a semester and work full time, not exactly great strides in progress academically, especially when the universities move faster each year to change requirements.
NOW THAT
the economy is all gone to shit forever, i think nigel and me may be the only folks i know who have not started "back in school" and are using financial aid to buy groceries/ pay mortgage/ rent. people are totally falling back on the system because they're losing direction. what the hell are kids, with no support supposed to do? i personally never judged friends who were willing to go into debt for school, i just thought they were crazy for doing it.
AMERICA
has a privileged white middle class?
Quote from: E.O.T. on April 02, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
AMERICA
has a privileged white middle class?
Yep, I was privileged to grow up in a tiny house that was 150 years old and falling apart, with one working parent trying to raise three kids at the poverty level. I was so privileged that my grandparents and most of the maternal side of my family is illiterate and still don't have running water in their house. I was privileged to hang out my great aunt, who lived in a tiny house with dirt floors and slept on corn shucks. I was privileged enough to not go to college and had the awesome privilege of teaching myself enough about computers and data security to get the job I have now.
I mean hell, who could ask for more?
ETA: Though to be fair, I did have wonderful parents that loved me very much and did their best, even though they were poor undereducated and in a crazy cult. If it had not been for their nurturing environment, I doubt I would have had much success in life.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 03:41:05 PM
Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.
Well I'll make sure that the friends I met are aware of how bad those deep tans can be for their health. I mean the whole village had kind of an olive tone to it, I can't imagine the skin cancer rates... and those poor sods from the kurdish areas must really hit the tanning booths...
I'll also let my friends who are black know that they have no culture that is based heavily on chirstianity. I'm sure that they will appreciate that their perceptons of religion are terribly uninformed and flawed.
Thanks for the corrections Nigel. I don't know what I would ever do without your wisdom.
ETA: I'll also let them know that growing up as poor Muslims in a small fishing village is analogous to being privileged white middle-class Americans. I'm sure they will agree.
You're really projecting, here, and assuming a lot. Please, like I said, before, stop talking; you're just making yourself look worse.
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 03:41:05 PM
Have I been shit flinging up to this point? I'm just asking you to stop talking now because your incredible ignorance and naivete is embarrassing to witness. I can't even address it... I'm hoping someone else will.
Well I'll make sure that the friends I met are aware of how bad those deep tans can be for their health. I mean the whole village had kind of an olive tone to it, I can't imagine the skin cancer rates... and those poor sods from the kurdish areas must really hit the tanning booths...
I'll also let my friends who are black know that they have no culture that is based heavily on chirstianity. I'm sure that they will appreciate that their perceptons of religion are terribly uninformed and flawed.
Thanks for the corrections Nigel. I don't know what I would ever do without your wisdom.
ETA: I'll also let them know that growing up as poor Muslims in a small fishing village is analogous to being privileged white middle-class Americans. I'm sure they will agree.
You're really projecting, here, and assuming a lot. Please, like I said, before, stop talking; you're just making yourself look worse.
Projecting what exactly?
Now you're just responding to try to pick a fight. I'm going to ignore you, as you are adding no content here.
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 05:09:00 PM
Now you're just responding to try to pick a fight. I'm going to ignore you, as you are adding no content here.
I'm actually trying to figure out what is so offensive and ignorant about what I said. I don't want to seem ignorant, but I still can't see what the issue is... so err, I was really asking for you to clarify rather than just say"You're ignorant", "you're projecting"...
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.
Reread this and see if you can figure it out. I can give you a couple hints; you are not proving your false premise with your false comparisons.
In all fairness, if you're gonna go up one side of Rat and down the other like that you should probably clarify why.
I mean, I'm a little unsure of your premise myself, and I'm not usually hesitant about busting Rat's balls.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.
Somewhere in his post I think he is addressing some valid points, but he manages to completely shoot them in the foot with the following:
1. He uses PurpleEris as an example of some kind of point about nonwhites embracing Discordianism. Now, there are several nonwhites on this forum, but PurpleEris is not one of them. We've all seen her pics. If she's not "white", racially speaking, just because she's Turkish, then neither is 000, nor teh whole troupe of Britspags, and if we're going to redefine "white" to mean "non-American", then this whole conversation may as well be scrapped because potato the yellow fandangle.
Then on top of that was his completely ass-grabbed premise that because black people are more likely to be Baptist, therefore they are less likely than white people to rebel against their upbringings, and somehow also those that do are less likely to think for themselves.
WTF Ratatosk, just WTF. On both points.
WTF.
Oh, and perhaps he wants to turn this thread into a semantic argument over whether the more Arab faction of the native Turkish population are Caucasian or Asian.
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
The PD is not just a white thing though... Purple Eris is a Turk and she's embraced Discordianism, so have some of her friends. Over at MLA, there are people from a number of countries... or at least there were back in the day when it was really active. Discordianism is far larger than this forum... and this forum is good for a specific kind of Discordian. From my experience its not the kind of Discordians that tend to pop up in countries outside of the US (angry, middle class, privileged and itching for someone to knock the apple chip off of their shoulder). If we want diversity, we have to accept diversity. We tend to accept variety more easily than diversity, IMO. That is, small variations from the core are fine... but someone who decides that Eris is their goddess... or that fnords are really funny or that dada is their thing.... this isn't the kind of place they'll find a welcome.
Somewhere in his post I think he is addressing some valid points, but he manages to completely shoot them in the foot with the following:
1. He uses PurpleEris as an example of some kind of point about nonwhites embracing Discordianism. Now, there are several nonwhites on this forum, but PurpleEris is not one of them. We've all seen her pics. If she's not "white", racially speaking, just because she's Turkish, then neither is 000, nor teh whole troupe of Britspags, and if we're going to redefine "white" to mean "non-American", then this whole conversation may as well be scrapped because potato the yellow fandangle.
Then on top of that was his completely ass-grabbed premise that because black people are more likely to be Baptist, therefore they are less likely than white people to rebel against their upbringings, and somehow also those that do are less likely to think for themselves.
WTF Ratatosk, just WTF. On both points.
WTF.
Well, I can see how you might have interpreted it that way. I should have clarified and stated that while PE is lightly olive, some of her friends that I met who have embraced Discordianism are from the darker skinned parts of Turkey. As for arguing white privilege... I am still not convinced that we can say *insert any ethnicity and if they have light colored skin they have white privilege". Surely a Muslim childhood in a very different country, with very different social and cultural views on race would be something other than white privilege as being discussed here. However, I take your critisizm and I should have stated very clearly that some of the Discordians I met were dark skinned and not simply white.
As for the religious comment, that was based on conversations I have had over the years with some non-white pagans in the US (I mean this isn't the first time that the question has come up and some neo-pagans also wonder why there isn't more diversity) and well as a number of my friends. When I talked about Discordia and Eris a few of my friends were visibly uncomfortable and when I asked why, they said that it was kinda sacrilegious. Now, I don't expect my experiences to entail the whole of every African American on the continent, and I apologize if it sounded like I was generalizing that way.
Thanks for clarifying what you found so offensive in my posts.
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2011, 03:24:19 PM
Hey Ratatosk, Turks are white, you retard. Just saying.
:?
Then what do you mean by "white"? I thought it was mostly about skin colour, and quite a few of them have skin about just as dark as yours? (as far as I can judge from your pics, maybe IRL it's different)
Sorry if I'm being ignorant.
White is defined as "Everyone except Samuel Jackson and Nina Simone."
That is all.
So you're saying the Upsidedown People could be anywhere? :scared:
So you're saying Nina Simone isn't Turkish?
Rastas are generally extremely leery of anything Pagan or New age, but when you think about it, their whole outlook is Old Testament, and they set a great deal of stock in those old time Prophets, like Ezekiel, Daniel, Obidiah, and Solomon. You just cant get more Fundamentalist than a Fundamentalist Rastafarian. Witches Oracles, Warlocks, Online Astrologers, Gays, Wiccans, Menstruating women, Oh no.
"Mi not never tek nuh raggy road Sistren, nuh keep nuh batty man frend, Mi nuh ina nuttin wid nuh Duppy man, nuh Obeah man, dem all g'wan bun up ina fiyah. Babalon haffi kip papers pon dem, Jah Jah mek im Hola fiyah rain down 'pon dem yaw, I an I Bredrin, si dem all gwan to Hell, I an I Bredrin all steppin' clean, wi g'wan si Jah Jah Kingdom come, seen, yaw"
All those Deep South "Tent Revival" Fundies, are like Church of England coffee morning Vicars compared to hardline countryman Dreadlock Rastas. They wouldn't use a burning Witch to light a stick of Lamb's Bread, let alone have any truck with white middle class Pagans.
They're up there with Islamic Jihadists, & Taleban Imams, when it comes to interacting with other faiths in a spirit of tolerance and love. The only thing that perhaps makes them less high profile on every "No Fly" list, (Apart from them not getting on any Rasclaaht Airplane) is that they don't have a charter that says they have to take Jah, and spread his Reign to the Infidel. They are content to await his coming. But they won't be doing it around any Discordian Cabals.
I don't think Obiah or Santeria, or any of the Carribbean syncretic Religions have any qualms about mixing with Pagans or anyone else for that matter. Apart from the fact that the Witchcraft influence that runs through them all is African rather than European, (Oh, and the animal sacrifices) they're pretty similar to Wiccans anyway. Or Eclectic Pagans at least, in that they are a merging of different faiths anyway. But probably less lulzy, and more grounded in their tradition than your average Wiccan. They have their own Trickster Archetypes too, so Discordianism would probably fit right in down their way. They are vibrant, dynamic, and participatory faiths, and not that big on Dogma either, more Mystical than Canonical too. Which is probably good
I think maybe one of you Yankspags could perhaps have a bit of a further look into this, just out of interest, and see if there could be any kind of crossover between our paleface adherents, and any spiritually compatible, but less melanin deficient demographic from some Santerian /Hoodoo/Voudon groups. Could be a very interesting Cultural experience. Or a complete damp squib. But it's an idea anyway.
:lulz:
you're a little late to THAT particular party, BB.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 02, 2011, 09:22:32 PM
:lulz:
you're a little late to THAT particular party, BB.
Aint it always the way! Oh well. I do have a good mixed race friend from Australia who is really getting into the Discordia thing, I even got her to register here, but she has some online connection issues and only gets an hour at the Library now and again at the moment.
To give my assessment of Nigel's original point, as I understand it, the term "white" does not have anything to do with skin color, but rather cultural privilege. So by referring to us all as "bored middle-class white people" she is saying that we have the money and cultural privilege to fritter away time on Discordia.
i was brought here by a bored middle class chinese person :lol:
The US is teeming with black middle-aged women poet-witches. I shit you not, it's a "thing".
As far as black Americans and religion, here:
http://www.religionlink.com/tip_070108.php
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 02, 2011, 10:04:24 PM
To give my assessment of Nigel's original point, as I understand it, the term "white" does not have anything to do with skin color, but rather cultural privilege. So by referring to us all as "bored middle-class white people" she is saying that we have the money and cultural privilege to fritter away time on Discordia.
Yes, that was my original point. I even explained its origins; why I started playing around with the idea of race as a condition of privilege in the first place.
Race is interesting, partly because it's so fluid and difficult to define. Like gender it's a social construct, and like gender it's really fucking hard to pin down and discussing it makes people really uncomfortable.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 02, 2011, 09:09:18 PM
So you're saying Nina Simone isn't Turkish?
Nina Simone is her own ethnic group.
Most sociologists seem to agree that "race" is a sociocultural construct, rather than a biological one. In other words, it doesn't have to do with color. Initially, I was skeptical of this argument, as I do think that sociologists tend to almost intentionally overlook biology. After doing a bit of research on this argument, however, from a genetic/biological basis, I found that I'm inclined to agree. There is very little overlap between skin pigmentation (a biological adaptation) and racial designation. A person can look white to me, yet consider themselves black, and yet move to another region and be considered black by the local majority, or maybe yet still black. This can be pretty bothersome when the geographically based cultural designation differs from the individual's own assessment, and it happens in many places.
As with gender designation, I feel that ultimately it should be up to the individual. Perhaps even moreso with race, as there is really no significant correlation between genetic make-up and human racial classifications.
QuoteMost sociologists seem to agree that "race" is a sociocultural construct
Well they would have to wouldn't they, that's sort of their bread and butter. :lol:
While there are many sociocultural aspects of race and gender designation, most of those lead directly to misconceptions as most sociocultures are full of dumbasses. I don't see why constructs should have any more sway in these matters than meaty biology. ETA: I think they should have less sway.
I mean, obviously the sociocultural factors are important and have direct impact on our everyday lives, but they're also usually stupid and counter-productive. As GA said, you have to keep that white lab coat on, and keep it clean.
Quote from: Alty on April 02, 2011, 11:01:30 PM
QuoteMost sociologists seem to agree that your face is a sociocultural construct
How I read this.
That's definitely what I was shooting for.
Quote from: Alty on April 02, 2011, 11:01:30 PM
I mean, obviously the sociocultural factors are important and have direct impact on our everyday lives, but they're also usually stupid and counter-productive. As GA said, you have to keep that white lab coat on, and keep it clean.
I never take it off. Problem is, there's no biological basis for race; the point of my post.
How so? How is darker skin as a result of countless generations spent in a sunny climate or lighter skin from less sun exposure not biological?
Or Native American inability to process alcohol the way Europeans do?
How do sociocultural constructs mitigate the biological factors?
Or are you trying to say that there is no inherent overriding unstoppable powerhouse of genetic basis for race?
What I'm saying is, genetic correlations do not, for the most part, line up at all with social designations. There is some small amount of genetic tracing toward shit like red hair, but the gradient of skin pigmentation typically correlated with cultural racial designations is not reasonably connected with genetic grouping.. at least as far as I can tell.
Using genetic grouping also leads to things that are, from a social standpoint, less than sane, IE: a Pakistani is Caucasian, but from a social standpoint lumping them in with a European Caucasian doesn't make a lot of sense.
I have noticed, however, that it is starting to not really matter what your lineage is, because I can't tell these fuckers apart half the time.
In other words, I personally don't see what matters except that my eye registers a darker skin tone when it's obvious (sometimes not even then), so maybe Nigel and people agreeing with that point of view have a point and skin tone doesn't really play a factor in race. In fact, if you look at it from the bottom up (DNA to start with), there really is no such thing as race (except for sherpas, maybe), and it's all moot at this point, because every single one of us posting here has ridiculously good luck to have the internet and food and so on.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 06:09:26 AM
I have noticed, however, that it is starting to not really matter what your lineage is, because I can't tell these fuckers apart half the time.
In other words, I personally don't see what matters except that my eye registers a darker skin tone when it's obvious (sometimes not even then), so maybe Nigel and people agreeing with that point of view have a point and skin tone doesn't really play a factor in race. In fact, if you look at it from the bottom up (DNA to start with), there really is no such thing as race (except for sherpas, maybe), and it's all moot at this point, because every single one of us posting here has ridiculously good luck to have the internet and food and so on.
YESSSSSSSSSS!!!
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
Well you're Welsh, aren't you? Isn't that a species of rabbit or something?
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
:thanks:
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
It's okay Coyote, I don't think of you as white. :lol:
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 03, 2011, 06:49:39 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
It's okay Coyote, I don't think of you as white. :lol:
:mittens:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 06:46:13 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
Well you're Welsh, aren't you? Isn't that a species of rabbit or something?
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 06:46:13 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
You are all white in my book.
Cept Nigel. She can be whatever she wants because she scare me.
And cept Roger, because he is a filthy yeti.
Well you're Welsh, aren't you? Isn't that a species of rabbit or something?
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
Well there you are then.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
You are welcome?
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
Celebrating a victory. We get that, too, a couple times a night, out back in the golf course.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:31:14 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
Celebrating a victory. We get that, too, a couple times a night, out back in the golf course.
Is it something you just get used to?
Also, I'm already fucking terrified of mountain lions after some of the horror stories I've heard.
No, it's not obvious I moved to the rugged mountains from a city at all
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:33:08 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:31:14 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
Celebrating a victory. We get that, too, a couple times a night, out back in the golf course.
Is it something you just get used to?
Also, I'm already fucking terrified of mountain lions after some of the horror stories I've heard.
No, it's not obvious I moved to the rugged mountains from a city at all
Yep, either that or they all left to find better game. A couple dogs ambushed the coyotes over here.
Mountain lions ARE scary, do nevar test. Your best bet is to stay around populated areas as much as you can, and ask an expert what to do if you see one, because I sure as fuck don't know, and I don't want to be held responsible for telling you something wrong.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:35:52 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:33:08 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:31:14 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
Celebrating a victory. We get that, too, a couple times a night, out back in the golf course.
Is it something you just get used to?
Also, I'm already fucking terrified of mountain lions after some of the horror stories I've heard.
No, it's not obvious I moved to the rugged mountains from a city at all
Yep, either that or they all left to find better game. A couple dogs ambushed the coyotes over here.
Mountain lions ARE scary, do nevar test. Your best bet is to stay around populated areas as much as you can, and ask an expert what to do if you see one, because I sure as fuck don't know, and I don't want to be held responsible for telling you something wrong.
We have some really nice townhome properties on resort kind of out in bfe.
Last year supposedly there was a mountain lion that claimed one of the porches/deck as its sunning perch, and also was known to sleep next to the grill on said deck.
Working nights that fucking terrifies me. Moreso than the black bears that can open doors and rip the tops off of dumpsters.
Have you ever stared into the eyes of a cougar?
It's a life changing experience.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:38:20 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:35:52 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:33:08 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:31:14 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:10:51 AM
No, I'm a coyote, which is a species of...fuck...rabbit. :argh!:
YOU.
Call your fucking people off.
3 nights in the past week I've been woken up just before 6 am by their god damned wailing howls.
Celebrating a victory. We get that, too, a couple times a night, out back in the golf course.
Is it something you just get used to?
Also, I'm already fucking terrified of mountain lions after some of the horror stories I've heard.
No, it's not obvious I moved to the rugged mountains from a city at all
Yep, either that or they all left to find better game. A couple dogs ambushed the coyotes over here.
Mountain lions ARE scary, do nevar test. Your best bet is to stay around populated areas as much as you can, and ask an expert what to do if you see one, because I sure as fuck don't know, and I don't want to be held responsible for telling you something wrong.
We have some really nice townhome properties on resort kind of out in bfe.
Last year supposedly there was a mountain lion that claimed one of the porches/deck as its sunning perch, and also was known to sleep next to the grill on said deck.
Working nights that fucking terrifies me. Moreso than the black bears that can open doors and rip the tops off of dumpsters.
I think bears are more dangerous because they seem less dangerous, but they're just being sneaky bastards. And bears don't go in for year-round eating, you know. In fall they are crazy bad ass scary.;
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:43:14 AM
Have you ever stared into the eyes of a cougar?
It's a life changing experience.
:spittake:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:43:41 AM
I think bears are more dangerous because they seem less dangerous, but they're just being sneaky bastards. And bears don't go in for year-round eating, you know. In fall they are crazy bad ass scary.;
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:43:14 AM
Have you ever stared into the eyes of a cougar?
It's a life changing experience.
*hangs head*
Unfortunately yes. I'm like a fucking cougar magnet when eating/drinking in a decent restaurant/pub alone.
And to date only one cougar out of the several has been even remotely attractive. I always get the wrinkly old bitches with gaudy jewelry and voices that sound like their preferred breakfast is a big bowl of virginia slims.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:50:29 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:43:14 AM
Have you ever stared into the eyes of a cougar?
It's a life changing experience.
*hangs head*
Unfortunately yes. I'm like a fucking cougar magnet when eating/drinking in a decent restaurant/pub alone.
And to date only one cougar out of the several has been even remotely attractive. I always get the wrinkly old bitches with gaudy jewelry and voices that sound like their preferred breakfast is a big bowl of virginia slims.
:lulz:
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:43:41 AM
I think bears are more dangerous because they seem less dangerous, but they're just being sneaky bastards. And bears don't go in for year-round eating, you know. In fall they are crazy bad ass scary.;
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
http://www.coldsteel.com/boarspear.html
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/csstoreonline_2149_8772976)
You would be better off with a handgun than a sword cane.
You would be even better off hiking with one or more buddies.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:50:29 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:43:14 AM
Have you ever stared into the eyes of a cougar?
It's a life changing experience.
*hangs head*
Unfortunately yes. I'm like a fucking cougar magnet when eating/drinking in a decent restaurant/pub alone.
And to date only one cougar out of the several has been even remotely attractive. I always get the wrinkly old bitches with gaudy jewelry and voices that sound like their preferred breakfast is a big bowl of virginia slims.
Word choice was intentional. :lulz:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Arizona: America's Austrailia, loaded with small things that will fuck your shit up.
Lots of sticks here, so that won't be a problem. There are some ski poles in our L&F, and they'd totally make good walking/stabbing tools.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Arizona: America's Austrailia, loaded with small things that will fuck your shit up.
Lots of sticks here, so that won't be a problem. There are some ski poles in our L&F, and they'd totally make good walking/stabbing tools.
I just laughed like that one dog who was a cartoon badguy's sidekick. Name was somethink like smelly, or Snarky, Or Snickely. Sminkly? I don't fucking know.
We also have BIG shit that will fuck you up, like mountain lions, bears, coyotes, ostriches, and javelinas (FFS, EVEN THE BIRDS AND THE PIG-RAT THINGS WILL FUCKING YOUR SHIT!!!).
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 03, 2011, 07:56:55 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:43:41 AM
I think bears are more dangerous because they seem less dangerous, but they're just being sneaky bastards. And bears don't go in for year-round eating, you know. In fall they are crazy bad ass scary.;
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
http://www.coldsteel.com/boarspear.html
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/csstoreonline_2149_8772976)
You would be better off with a handgun than a sword cane.
You would be even better off hiking with one or more buddies.
I'm really just a day hiker. All people I'd maybe go with out here are fucking crazy hardcore, and I really don't think accompanying them would be a fun experience for me.
Example: my landlords are hardcore crazy. Colorado has several ski resorts from the 60's/70's/80's that are now abandoned, but still have facilities/cabins for hard ass backcountry skiers/riders to stay in. Said landlords have gone out 6 different 3 day stints this season, left in the middle of the night, drove 5 hours even though where they're going is only 20 miles away (hooray mountains), ditch their car in a spot they know, hike in 2+ feet deep powder for 8 or more hours each carrying 70 lbs of gear and other shits, not counting the 150lb sled they drag behind them. They hike to said cabin on whichever abandoned ski resort they're hitting, wake up, take a run to the base, spend 4 hours climbing back up, take another run, spend another 4 hours, get drunk, sleep, and hike back to their car.
Oh, and everytime they've gone out i've been the emergency contact where if they aren't back by a certain time it's my job to call 911, and give all the details of their location to the emergency search party.
Make friends with casual hikers.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Arizona: America's Austrailia, loaded with small things that will fuck your shit up.
Lots of sticks here, so that won't be a problem. There are some ski poles in our L&F, and they'd totally make good walking/stabbing tools.
I just laughed like that one dog who was a cartoon badguy's sidekick. Name was somethink like smelly, or Snarky, Or Snickely. Sminkly? I don't fucking know.
We also have BIG shit that will fuck you up, like mountain lions, bears, coyotes, ostriches, and javelinas (FFS, EVEN THE BIRDS AND THE PIG-RAT THINGS WILL FUCKING YOUR SHIT!!!).
I know we've got retarded goats, elk and moose which just don't give a fuck, foxes every fucking where, mountain lions, black bears, rabits, and some predator birds.
None of those kill you to death bugs, hooray high elevations.
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Arizona: America's Austrailia, loaded with small things that will fuck your shit up.
Lots of sticks here, so that won't be a problem. There are some ski poles in our L&F, and they'd totally make good walking/stabbing tools.
I just laughed like that one dog who was a cartoon badguy's sidekick. Name was somethink like smelly, or Snarky, Or Snickely. Sminkly? I don't fucking know.
We also have BIG shit that will fuck you up, like mountain lions, bears, coyotes, ostriches, and javelinas (FFS, EVEN THE BIRDS AND THE PIG-RAT THINGS WILL FUCKING YOUR SHIT!!!).
I know we've got retarded goats, elk and moose which just don't give a fuck, foxes every fucking where, mountain lions, black bears, rabits, and some predator birds.
None of those kill you to death bugs, hooray high elevations.
Moose aren't nothing to fuck with either.
Nature, dude. It's fucking rough.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:22:28 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Arizona: America's Austrailia, loaded with small things that will fuck your shit up.
Lots of sticks here, so that won't be a problem. There are some ski poles in our L&F, and they'd totally make good walking/stabbing tools.
I just laughed like that one dog who was a cartoon badguy's sidekick. Name was somethink like smelly, or Snarky, Or Snickely. Sminkly? I don't fucking know.
We also have BIG shit that will fuck you up, like mountain lions, bears, coyotes, ostriches, and javelinas (FFS, EVEN THE BIRDS AND THE PIG-RAT THINGS WILL FUCKING YOUR SHIT!!!).
I know we've got retarded goats, elk and moose which just don't give a fuck, foxes every fucking where, mountain lions, black bears, rabits, and some predator birds.
None of those kill you to death bugs, hooray high elevations.
Moose aren't nothing to fuck with either.
Nature, dude. It's fucking rough.
There were 3 or so moose that forced me to sit in the car for 10 minutes as they slowly decided it was time to cross the road back in january.
They really don't give a shit. and they're fucking huge.
I don't hike alone because of the feral people.
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
I don't hike alone because of the feral people.
Those people walking? I believe I have stated - time and again - that I am against that.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 03:22:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
I don't hike alone because of the feral people.
Those people walking? I believe I have stated - time and again - that I am against that.
They won't stop doing it, though.
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 03:22:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
I don't hike alone because of the feral people.
Those people walking? I believe I have stated - time and again - that I am against that.
They won't stop doing it, though.
Yes, you'd think they'd pay more attention to a Holy Man
TM, but they keep on being poor. Or health-conscious. Or "Green". Or just plain crazy.
It's enough to make me doubt the wonders of Calvinism.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 03:22:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
I don't hike alone because of the feral people.
Those people walking? I believe I have stated - time and again - that I am against that.
They won't stop doing it, though.
Yes, you'd think they'd pay more attention to a Holy ManTM, but they keep on being poor. Or health-conscious. Or "Green". Or just plain crazy.
It's enough to make me doubt the wonders of Calvinism.
We get outdoorsy types like that too, but we call them "Ramblers". They bumble around in packs, with nylon cagoules on, wielding Ordnance Survey Landranger maps, sensible leather boots, and Bobble hats. Rather than being feral, these cunty nuggets of socially awkward middle aged Librarian types have packed lunches, bottles of tepid Lemon Barley Water, and "Ramble" across any old bit of greenery, going from Youth Hostel to Bed and Breakfast, by the most tortuous and muddy route possible. Farmers, when alerted to their presence on their Land, often spontaeneously decide it's time to go muckspreading, jump in their Tractors, and proceed to spray these trespassing, Daily Express reading "Real Ale" drinking "Happy Campers" with gallons of well rotted down pigshit. Quite right too, if you ask me.
Oh, those aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones who live in the forest. The police go in and try to root them out every once in a while, and they get a few of them, but most of them are so good at hiding they never get caught. It's a big forest. Runners disappear in it sometimes; that's why I got a big, scary dog to take hiking with me.
I don't have much to add, except that when David Attenborough says "puma" it sounds like "pew-muh."
Also, those of the eastern variety are rumored to be extinct:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=giving-up-on-the-ghost-cat-eastern-2011-03-09
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 04:29:47 PM
Oh, those aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones who live in the forest. The police go in and try to root them out every once in a while, and they get a few of them, but most of them are so good at hiding they never get caught. It's a big forest. Runners disappear in it sometimes; that's why I got a big, scary dog to take hiking with me.
Ah, we have those too. They are usually to be found in tunnels or up trees, at Road Protest sites. They have names like "Swampy" or "Feral Beryl" and get shuffled around the Country every so often by the Police, in case they start breeding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80u7tSH3mWE&feature=related
Quote from: BadBeast on April 03, 2011, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 03, 2011, 04:29:47 PM
Oh, those aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones who live in the forest. The police go in and try to root them out every once in a while, and they get a few of them, but most of them are so good at hiding they never get caught. It's a big forest. Runners disappear in it sometimes; that's why I got a big, scary dog to take hiking with me.
Ah, we have those too. They are usually to be found in tunnels or up trees, at Road Protest sites. They have names like "Swampy" or "Feral Beryl" and get shuffled around the Country every so often by the Police, in case they start breeding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80u7tSH3mWE&feature=related
Nope, nothing like that, ours look more like this:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TeJxggJvg7g/SQSnVyH4ZsI/AAAAAAAAAuE/zHeHFO5sPjg/s320/homeless.jpg)
Nobby Nobbs? Is that YUO?
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
That's not the government being shitty to you, that's your family being shitty to you.
All those people that are eligible for scholarships, you know the poor ones, white or black or whatever, you bet their families are helping them go to college.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
Still catching up after the holiday, but here's my take for what its worth...
2. I think several people hit key contributors to the lack of diversity in Discordianism. I saw an equal lack of diversity in a number of philosophy based lj groups and similar forums. Minorities in the US are predominantly fire and brimstone christians (or catholics for the hispanics) and this stuff is pretty close to blasphemy. Hell, there are few minority pagans (for the prominent Wicca-like varieties).
Since Wicca is an attempt at recreating Celtic religion non white Wiccans look kind of silly to me, not that embracing a different culture's religion is silly, Christians are embracing a middle eastern religion after all, but Wicca is explicitly an attempt to rediscover Celtic roots. The validity of that rediscovery compared to how much is made of Gerald Gardner's feces (all of it) not being the point.
There are other branches of paganism that are primarially minority, voudoun for instance is mostly black.
Discordia isn't an attempt to recreate the roots religion of any culture, so it shouldn't be hampered by that particular limitation.
(Just pointing out one important factor that is going to serve to naturally limit Wicca)
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:22:28 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 08:13:43 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
Quote from: Da6s on April 03, 2011, 07:48:30 AM
bears here are just black bears, which we had in the Smokies. Ran across mama bear and cubs three times while hiking various trails, aside from having to wait for them to go on their way they weren't bad.
As for the mountain lion safety: http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html (http://police.ucsc.edu/liondoc1.html)
QuoteDO NOT HIKE ALONE. Make plenty of noise to reduce your chances of surprising a lion. Go in groups, with adults supervising children. A sturdy walking stick is a good idea: you can use it to ward off a lion.
Fuck. I do almost all my hiking alone.
I need a makeshift pike. Or one of those old man canes with sword inside.
We don't have big sticks here, unless it's still attached to a dead and downed tree in a wash, and that's something else you don't want to fuck with. Spiders, scorpions, and snakes prefer those kinds of hangouts. We got black bears here, too, but more up towards Mount Lemmon than down here. I think we got browns too.
Arizona: America's Austrailia, loaded with small things that will fuck your shit up.
Lots of sticks here, so that won't be a problem. There are some ski poles in our L&F, and they'd totally make good walking/stabbing tools.
I just laughed like that one dog who was a cartoon badguy's sidekick. Name was somethink like smelly, or Snarky, Or Snickely. Sminkly? I don't fucking know.
We also have BIG shit that will fuck you up, like mountain lions, bears, coyotes, ostriches, and javelinas (FFS, EVEN THE BIRDS AND THE PIG-RAT THINGS WILL FUCKING YOUR SHIT!!!).
I know we've got retarded goats, elk and moose which just don't give a fuck, foxes every fucking where, mountain lions, black bears, rabits, and some predator birds.
None of those kill you to death bugs, hooray high elevations.
Moose aren't nothing to fuck with either.
Nature, dude. It's fucking rough.
Moose don't like dogs, at least in Alaska they don't. When I was living in Anchorage I heard about a few different times that moose had come in through a window in order to kick a dog to death.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 03, 2011, 06:36:17 PM
That's not the government being shitty to you, that's your family being shitty to you.
All those people that are eligible for scholarships, you know the poor ones, white or black or whatever, you bet their families are helping them go to college.
Mine didn't (the first time anyway, the second try they did). But that was more because at the time we fell into that screwy category where you don't qualify for financial aid, and don't have enough money. I ended up in a really screwy place where I was offered a 13k year scholarship and still couldn't afford to go to an out of state college (or at least, not the ones I applied too, there might be cheaper ones I missed).
As for you PH, work your ass off and get a damned academic scholarship, even if your grades aren't great study your ass off for your SAT/ACTs and get some AP tests under your belt (A couple AP 5s and a 1500 SAT will open all kinds of doors, even with a 3.nil GPA).
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why? If your folks won't help you, and you are 18 or older, apply based on YOUR income.
Or carry your whiny ass down to the recruiter's office.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Step 1: Become Tea Party member.
Step 2: Stand on corners with misspelled signs all day every day.
Step 3: CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN?!!
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Step 1: Become Tea Party member.
Step 2: Stand on corners with misspelled signs all day every day.
Step 3: CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN?!!
Step 1: Blame Black people.
Step 2: Blame Hispanics.
Step 3: Blame Women.
Step 4: Blame poor people.
Step 5: Sit in a Denny's alone every night of your lonely, embittered life.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Step 1: Become Tea Party member.
Step 2: Stand on corners with misspelled signs all day every day.
Step 3: CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN?!!
Step 1: Blame Black people.
Step 2: Blame Hispanics.
Step 3: Blame Women.
Step 4: Blame poor people.
Step 5: Sit in a Denny's alone every night of your lonely, embittered life.
Or sit at home, because you've been banned from Denny's due to BO.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Step 1: Become Tea Party member.
Step 2: Stand on corners with misspelled signs all day every day.
Step 3: CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN?!!
Step 1: Blame Black people.
Step 2: Blame Hispanics.
Step 3: Blame Women.
Step 4: Blame poor people.
Step 5: Sit in a Denny's alone every night of your lonely, embittered life.
Or sit at home, because you've been banned from Denny's due to BO.
Write angry letters to the NAACP.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Step 1: Become Tea Party member.
Step 2: Stand on corners with misspelled signs all day every day.
Step 3: CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN?!!
Step 1: Blame Black people.
Step 2: Blame Hispanics.
Step 3: Blame Women.
Step 4: Blame poor people.
Step 5: Sit in a Denny's alone every night of your lonely, embittered life.
Or sit at home, because you've been banned from Denny's due to BO.
Write angry letters to the NAACP.
And get the local churches all stirred up.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:10:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:59:29 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why?
Because he/she's ENTITLED to his/her family's money without any work at all. Don't you know anything about how shit works now? :lulz:
His family won't give him money. The government won't give him money.
WHAT DO?
\
:x
Step 1: Become Tea Party member.
Step 2: Stand on corners with misspelled signs all day every day.
Step 3: CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN?!!
Step 1: Blame Black people.
Step 2: Blame Hispanics.
Step 3: Blame Women.
Step 4: Blame poor people.
Step 5: Sit in a Denny's alone every night of your lonely, embittered life.
Or sit at home, because you've been banned from Denny's due to BO.
Write angry letters to the NAACP.
And get the local churches all stirred up.
Finally bitch once too often about Blacks, etc, without looking around you.
RIP. :cry:
"It's such a shame he had to go that way."
"Yes, if only his parents or the government had paid his way to college, instead of some (poor/black/mexican/wtf ever) who deserved it less than he did!" :cry:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:13:22 PM
"It's such a shame he had to go that way."
"Yes, if only his parents or the government had paid his way to college, instead of some (poor/black/mexican/wtf ever) who deserved it less than he did!" :cry:
and finally end up in the worst forum on the whole of the internets. Only to find there is no sympathy here either! Bwaaah!
Quote from: BadBeast on April 03, 2011, 08:17:49 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:13:22 PM
"It's such a shame he had to go that way."
"Yes, if only his parents or the government had paid his way to college, instead of some (poor/black/mexican/wtf ever) who deserved it less than he did!" :cry:
and finally end up in the worst forum on the whole of the internets. Only to find there is no sympathy here either! Bwaaah!
:x The world is a cruel, cruel place, BB. Someone should do something about how unfair it is. Especially to PH. :cry:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why? If your folks won't help you, and you are 18 or older, apply based on YOUR income.
Or carry your whiny ass down to the recruiter's office.
You have to be 25 to apply based on your income.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why? If your folks won't help you, and you are 18 or older, apply based on YOUR income.
Or carry your whiny ass down to the recruiter's office.
You have to be 25 to apply based on your income.
Wrong. You just have to prove that you are independent.
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Also, PH, I seriously doubt that your parents are kicking you out of the house, which means they *are* helping because you won't need to come up with rent money on top of everything else.
Actually, PH, see if you can get a job with Qwest (assuming they have a call center in your area, or somewhere you want to go to college) they chip in I think 5k a year for college (Union job too, so they *have* to let you change shifts each semester when your schedule adjusts).
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:19:01 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on April 03, 2011, 08:17:49 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 03, 2011, 08:13:22 PM
"It's such a shame he had to go that way."
"Yes, if only his parents or the government had paid his way to college, instead of some (poor/black/mexican/wtf ever) who deserved it less than he did!" :cry:
and finally end up in the worst forum on the whole of the internets. Only to find there is no sympathy here either! Bwaaah!
:x The world is a cruel, cruel place, BB. Someone should do something about how unfair it is. Especially to PH. :cry:
I agree. However, it doesn't have to be a painless process, does it?
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 03, 2011, 06:54:33 PM
Moose don't like dogs, at least in Alaska they don't. When I was living in Anchorage I heard about a few different times that moose had come in through a window in order to kick a dog to death.
It's because of the bark.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Also, PH, I seriously doubt that your parents are kicking you out of the house, which means they *are* helping because you won't need to come up with rent money on top of everything else.
-cough-
-cough cough-
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Also, PH, I seriously doubt that your parents are kicking you out of the house, which means they *are* helping because you won't need to come up with rent money on top of everything else.
Yeah um
if his parents have the resources/willingness to house and feed his sorry ass through college, THEY ARE SUPPORTING HIM AND HE IS BENEFITING FROM THEIR MONEY. If they kick him out of the house and won't support him, he can apply based on his own income.
Fucking dumbass.
PH JOIN ROTC, THEY PAY. cept then you are stuck in military for a while. BUT THEY PAY!
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 03, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: pH on April 02, 2011, 02:48:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 29, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: pH on March 29, 2011, 10:16:36 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 27, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: pH on March 27, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
As far as Americans trying to prove "authenticity", a lot of that gets down to legal aspects. For example, scholarships are offered if you are a certain race, a minority in general, female, or able to prove financial need. On top of that we have affirmative action, which is if I (75% german, 25% hungarian whitey McWhite white, from a well off household) Get the exact same scores as another guy, (identical in every way except he's black) when applying for college, that college is legally required to accept him before me, for no reason other than he is black and I'm not. That goes for all 'minorities' though, pretty much anyone who can prove they've got a bit of non-white in them.
Allow me to be less reasonable than Nigel...
You're a fucking ignorant shitneck. Shut up and go actually learn something for yourself instead of parroting the latest talking points you heard on a talk-radio show.
It's also missing the point, at least, I thought when Nigel said "authenticity" she was talking about people looking for an authentic identity in their heritage. Like your old avatar that said something like "I'm pretty gangster myself" (not that seeking identity in your heritage is inherently a dumb thing of itself btw).
I might have missed the point of that, but i can list alllll the scholarships that I'm not eligible for because I have money and I'm white.
1. You have money. Why are you trying to take scholarships from people who don't? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2. The US government can not and does not attempt to verify your race or ethnic group. You can be just as Black as you like, and they won't say a word.
I'm complaining because we "have money" but within my family, the rules are 1. You go to college and 2. Nobody in the family is going to give you shit for college
You're whining because...Why? If your folks won't help you, and you are 18 or older, apply based on YOUR income.
Or carry your whiny ass down to the recruiter's office.
You have to be 25 to apply based on your income.
Once again, Requia pulls a truism out of her ass.
Once again, she's wrong.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Also, PH, I seriously doubt that your parents are kicking you out of the house, which means they *are* helping because you won't need to come up with rent money on top of everything else.
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to count to 25 or something.
No, actually she's right this time. The only thing is, he would have to prove that he's financially independent if he's under 25. Easy to prove if you have the tax filings to show it.
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 05:35:06 AM
No, actually she's right this time. The only thing is, he would have to prove that he's financially independent if he's under 25. Easy to prove if you have the tax filings to show it.
I'd have figured you would have to prove it anyway. :?
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 03, 2011, 10:00:17 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 03, 2011, 06:54:33 PM
Moose don't like dogs, at least in Alaska they don't. When I was living in Anchorage I heard about a few different times that moose had come in through a window in order to kick a dog to death.
It's because of the bark.
I kind of empathize with the moose there.
Still having one come in through your window would suck, a lot.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 04, 2011, 06:30:15 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 03, 2011, 10:00:17 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 03, 2011, 06:54:33 PM
Moose don't like dogs, at least in Alaska they don't. When I was living in Anchorage I heard about a few different times that moose had come in through a window in order to kick a dog to death.
It's because of the bark.
I kind of empathize with the moose there.
Still having one come in through your window would suck, a lot.
Well, the Reindeer had already plugged up the chimney...
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 04, 2011, 06:17:42 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 05:35:06 AM
No, actually she's right this time. The only thing is, he would have to prove that he's financially independent if he's under 25. Easy to prove if you have the tax filings to show it.
I'd have figured you would have to prove it anyway. :?
Yes. That part is, in fact, a given. So it's not that she wasn't again engaging in needless pedantry, it's just that she was right about an obvious thing again.
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 03:31:35 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 04, 2011, 06:17:42 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 05:35:06 AM
No, actually she's right this time. The only thing is, he would have to prove that he's financially independent if he's under 25. Easy to prove if you have the tax filings to show it.
I'd have figured you would have to prove it anyway. :?
Yes. That part is, in fact, a given.
Which is what led me to the conclusion that you didn't have to be 25 to apply based on your own income. I did, and I'm not 25 yet.
Dear people.
The Financial Aid Advisor has arrived.
You are AUTOMATICALLY CONSIDERED INDEPENDENT OF YOUR FAMILY AT AGE 23 PER THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S GUIDELINES WHILE APPLYING FOR FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. NOT 25, 23.
Yes, you CAN prove that you are financial independent prior to that as well as long as you have the tax documents to do so, and that's not that difficult unless you have an FAO that doesn't know their ass from their elbows. All you need to do is fill out the Independent Student Enrollment Verification Worksheet and submit that with your 1040 and you're set. Done. Securing independent aid while you're still living at home isn't going to be as easy, but yes, it can be done.
You actually get MORE aid as an independent than a dependent, but if you're 19 and still live at home, it's not going to happen. Not as long as your parents have the income to support the EFC (estimated family contribution) or you don't work. Even if you DO work...the chance is slim. So don't try to cheat the system.
Ah.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 03:46:26 PM
Dear people.
The Financial Aid Advisor has arrived.
You are AUTOMATICALLY CONSIDERED INDEPENDENT OF YOUR FAMILY AT AGE 23 PER THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S GUIDELINES WHILE APPLYING FOR FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. NOT 25, 23.
Yes, you CAN prove that you are financial independent prior to that as well as long as you have the tax documents to do so, and that's not that difficult unless you have an FAO that doesn't know their ass from their elbows. All you need to do is fill out the Independent Student Enrollment Verification Worksheet and submit that with your 1040 and you're set. Done. Securing independent aid while you're still living at home isn't going to be as easy, but yes, it can be done.
You actually get MORE aid as an independent than a dependent, but if you're 19 and still live at home, it's not going to happen. Not as long as your parents have the income to support the EFC (estimated family contribution) or you don't work. Even if you DO work...the chance is slim. So don't try to cheat the system.
Yay, Suu arrives with the Word!
Also, like I mentioned before, if your family is supporting your lazy ass, THEY ARE GIVING YOU MONEY. What is that, like $20,000/year they're saving you, that you would otherwise have to work for? So shut your stupid fucking entitled privileged ass, PH, and be grateful for a split second. You fucking dick.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Wow. You really don't know shit, do you?
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 03:52:56 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 03:46:26 PM
Dear people.
The Financial Aid Advisor has arrived.
You are AUTOMATICALLY CONSIDERED INDEPENDENT OF YOUR FAMILY AT AGE 23 PER THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S GUIDELINES WHILE APPLYING FOR FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. NOT 25, 23.
Yes, you CAN prove that you are financial independent prior to that as well as long as you have the tax documents to do so, and that's not that difficult unless you have an FAO that doesn't know their ass from their elbows. All you need to do is fill out the Independent Student Enrollment Verification Worksheet and submit that with your 1040 and you're set. Done. Securing independent aid while you're still living at home isn't going to be as easy, but yes, it can be done.
You actually get MORE aid as an independent than a dependent, but if you're 19 and still live at home, it's not going to happen. Not as long as your parents have the income to support the EFC (estimated family contribution) or you don't work. Even if you DO work...the chance is slim. So don't try to cheat the system.
Yay, Suu arrives with the Word!
Also, like I mentioned before, if your family is supporting your lazy ass, THEY ARE GIVING YOU MONEY. What is that, like $20,000/year they're saving you, that you would otherwise have to work for? So shut your stupid fucking entitled privileged ass, PH, and be grateful for a split second. You fucking dick.
I would fucking KILL to be able to still live at home with my parents, eating home cooked meals and not having to worry about the cost of living on my own, and I'm almost 30. Just sayin'. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, because you'll be missing them terribly when they're gone.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Wow. You really don't know shit, do you?
You aren't just now realizing this, are you?
Presuming you're still here, reading, and haven't been run off, this is your clue to throw yourself on Suu's mercy (it's a small target, and there are spiky bits around it, be careful) and ask her what to do to get financial aid for college.
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Wow. You really don't know shit, do you?
You aren't just now realizing this, are you?
No, it's just a :headdesk: moment. She won't be back in this thread, let her go pedant up another one.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 04, 2011, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 03, 2011, 08:25:14 PM
How many people at 18 can actually afford to do that, *and* go to college with financial aid that covers maybe 20% of the cost of a degree?
Wow. You really don't know shit, do you?
You aren't just now realizing this, are you?
No, it's just a :headdesk: moment. She won't be back in this thread, let her go pedant up another one.
:lulz:
I think she's finally realized that people will tear her a new one when she pedanticizes about shit she's wring about, so now she's restricting herself to things that are basic and obvious, like putting antibacterials on wounds and shit.
I have posted a thread on financial aid. Live it, learn it, love it. I will answer any question that is thrown at me.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 04:18:54 PM
I have posted a thread on financial aid. Live it, learn it, love it. I will answer any question that is thrown at me.
I like it, it's useful!
Attn: pH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSTqXme9RCk
Relevant bit is around 2:45.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 04:18:54 PM
I have posted a thread on financial aid. Live it, learn it, love it. I will answer any question that is thrown at me.
I suspect we diverge after reading this thread that I wasn't considering loans to be financial aid.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 04, 2011, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 04:18:54 PM
I have posted a thread on financial aid. Live it, learn it, love it. I will answer any question that is thrown at me.
I suspect we diverge after reading this thread that I wasn't considering loans to be financial aid.
Loans
are financial aid.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 04, 2011, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 04:18:54 PM
I have posted a thread on financial aid. Live it, learn it, love it. I will answer any question that is thrown at me.
I suspect we diverge after reading this thread that I wasn't considering loans to be financial aid.
WTF
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
I hope you fuck yourself over. I really do.
Quote from: pH on April 06, 2011, 03:24:03 AM
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
...And you still haven't figured out the period key.
ATTN, LMNO: You are a fucking genius. That link was spot on.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 06, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
I hope you fuck yourself over. I really do.
He's a bag of wind. A pompous fraud. Jesus Christ, the guy hasn't stopped bragging since he got here, and 99% of it is 169% guaranteed bullshit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 06, 2011, 03:25:53 AM
Quote from: pH on April 06, 2011, 03:24:03 AM
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
...And you still haven't figured out the period key.
ATTN, LMNO: You are a fucking genius. That link was spot on.
Yeah it was.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 06, 2011, 03:26:50 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 06, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
I hope you fuck yourself over. I really do.
He's a bag of wind. A pompous fraud. Jesus Christ, the guy hasn't stopped bragging since he got here, and 99% of it is 169% guaranteed bullshit.
Probably true, but he still doesn't deserve any help. Whiny little bitch ought to get what's coming to him.
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 06, 2011, 03:28:24 AM
Probably true, but he still doesn't deserve any help. Whiny little bitch ought to get what's coming to him.
This sort of thing is typically a self-correcting problem.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 06, 2011, 03:29:36 AM
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 06, 2011, 03:28:24 AM
Probably true, but he still doesn't deserve any help. Whiny little bitch ought to get what's coming to him.
This sort of thing is typically a self-correcting problem.
Yes, you are probably right. :lol:
Quote from: pH on April 06, 2011, 03:24:03 AM
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
Yes. And you probably went to Florida International or Florida Atlantic instead of one of the real fucking state schools. Wait, let me guess...you didn't graduate in the top 10 percentile of your class to be automatically admitted to any state school, did you? Either way, you have a free ride on the Merit Scholarship AND you're bitching about living at home?!
Jesus fucking Christ.
-Suu
Why yes, I know how that shit works...
Bright Futures Recipient
Florida Merit Scholar Recipient
Florida State University Alum
Educated PRE-NCLB, you obviously, not so much. Thank u. Drive thru.
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Requia ☣ on April 04, 2011, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 04, 2011, 04:18:54 PM
I have posted a thread on financial aid. Live it, learn it, love it. I will answer any question that is thrown at me.
I suspect we diverge after reading this thread that I wasn't considering loans to be financial aid.
:asplode:
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Huh?
Wait,
WHAT THE FUCK?I ranked in the top 1 percentile on that shit! Where the fuck is my filthy lucre?!
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was waiting for that. :lulz:
Quote from: Jenkem and Bubble Baths on April 06, 2011, 03:28:24 AM
Probably true, but he still doesn't deserve any help. Whiny little bitch ought to get what's coming to him.
The herpes results will come back positive soon enough. Always do.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. They don't.
In Florida if you maintain a certain average GPA (I think a 3.1) you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. They don't.
In Florida if you maintain a certain GPA you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
Well, the trailer park meth making rednecks in northern FL (which Fark mostly mocks) are indeed inherently stupid. Hell, about 30 minutes south on I-75 from the border of GA is the biggest fuck all stars and bars johnny reb flag i've ever seen.
Quote from: Da6s on April 06, 2011, 04:32:42 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. They don't.
In Florida if you maintain a certain GPA you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
Well, the trailer park meth making rednecks in northern FL (which Fark mostly mocks) are indeed inherently stupid. Hell, about 30 minutes south on I-75 from the border of GA and there's the biggest fuck all stars and bars johnny reb flag i've ever seen.
FACT: Jacksonville and anywhere along the Suwanee River are NOT Florida. You're still in Georgia and Alabama, the song just lies to you.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:33:58 AM
FACT: Jacksonville and anywhere along the Suwanee River are NOT Florida. You're still in Georgia and Alabama, the song just lies to you.
:lulz:
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. They don't.
In Florida if you maintain a certain average GPA (I think a 3.1) you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
Dude, Florida sounds pretty bitchin'.
That also includes the Eastern Time side of the Apalachicola east to 301 on 10. That river is the Chattahoochee by any other name, I ain't fucking stupid. After that, you're in Tallahassee and clear of most bullshit as long as you say south of the highway til Pensacola. Then you're on your own.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:37:33 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 06, 2011, 04:16:31 AM
Wait...they give out scholarships for the PSAT? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. They don't.
In Florida if you maintain a certain average GPA (I think a 3.1) you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
Dude, Florida sounds pretty bitchin'.
I should mention that those awards only go to high school students. :kingmeh:
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
You guys are nuts! This guy is a fucking HOOT! :lulz:
It's like having Trollax back, only a bit dumber.
Quote from: pH on April 06, 2011, 03:24:03 AM
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
So quit your spoiled brat bitching. Spoiled brat.
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2011, 05:20:53 AM
Quote from: pH on April 06, 2011, 03:24:03 AM
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
So quit your spoiled brat bitching. Spoiled brat.
I take it that you are unaware of his tomahawks, Ma'am.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 06, 2011, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2011, 05:20:53 AM
Quote from: pH on April 06, 2011, 03:24:03 AM
Actually, my money for college complaints have become irrelevant, PSAT scores qualified for nqmst scholarship + Florida bright futures scholarship, so I'm guaranteed almost completely free state college via academic merit
So quit your spoiled brat bitching. Spoiled brat.
I take it that you are unaware of his tomahawks, Ma'am.
Evidently. :lulz:
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
In Florida if you maintain a certain average GPA (I think a 3.1) you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
That doesn't make sense. If they sponsor people's education so much in Florida, the average Floridian should be
smarter than people from states where they have to cough up that money themselves.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 08, 2011, 01:53:02 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 06, 2011, 04:29:04 AM
In Florida if you maintain a certain average GPA (I think a 3.1) you're automatically given a Florida Merit Scholarship, which can cover 75-100% of your tuition at any state school. If you maintain over a 3.5 into Senior Year, you automatically get the Bright Futures Scholarship, which is 100% cost of attendance at any state school, and then, if you're REALLY fucking awesome and graduate within the top 10% of your class, you're automatically provisionally admitted into any state school (you still have to apply and meet whatever additional requirements the schools have for specific majors...but you're pretty much in, and your app fees are waived.)
Now, they may have changed that since I went to school there, but their university system is/was/sometimes still rocks. It's just a pity that everyone is convinced that Floridians are inherently stupid thanks to Fark.com, and Sparky here doesn't exactly help bust the mold, if ya'll know what I'm saying.
That doesn't make sense. If they sponsor people's education so much in Florida, the average Floridian should be smarter than people from states where they have to cough up that money themselves.
Ah, but you forget. Something you've worked for, paid for, bled for is something you take a HELL of a lot more seriously than something which is handed to you...
Also, Florida universities are not exactly know as hotbeds of higher academia. :lulz:
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 03, 2011, 06:54:33 PM
Moose don't like dogs, at least in Alaska they don't. When I was living in Anchorage I heard about a few different times that moose had come in through a window in order to kick a dog to death.
Moose don't like dogs because they mistake them for wolves. I saw a report that said moose attacks on humans are increasing because moose see human associating with dogs and think humans are collaborating with wolves.
Quote from: Risus on April 08, 2011, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 03, 2011, 06:54:33 PM
Moose don't like dogs, at least in Alaska they don't. When I was living in Anchorage I heard about a few different times that moose had come in through a window in order to kick a dog to death.
Moose don't like dogs because they mistake them for wolves. I saw a report that said moose attacks on humans are increasing because moose see human associating with dogs and think humans are collaborating with wolves.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
"Shit dudes, the monkeys and wolves are teaming up!"
\
(http://thebalsams.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/moose_alley_41.jpg)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRcP4JyaRazVwBGONeftSG9XtM-SB2wP8vX52mitqloyL6N3Y4)
/
SHIT, IT'S A CONSPIRACY AGAINST MOOSE!
It's time to take a stand against the human menace!!
\
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe_vbi1rO6yFM7NdzASyruaeK04VQNZrc2AiQJUIarw2jFOtRV)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSoMfCveBQpbKcfqseTgEEvSa_bTF5TLyHrSqpIyBEEaYfPZDOwg)
/
Wait for it..... Waaaiit fooor iiiiit.....
I got the distinct impression from the show that moose could often be found lumbering through the forest in a foul mood, muttering under their breath and looking for trouble.
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
The fuck did he go? PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T STARTING A CULT SOMEWHERE
I don't have time for that shit.
nah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back. :)
something something black iron prison
Quote from: Risus on April 08, 2011, 07:25:52 PM
I got the distinct impression from the show that moose could often be found lumbering through the forest in a foul mood, muttering under their breath and looking for trouble.
This is, in fact, 100% accurate. Though they tend to like swampy wooded lowlands more than proper forests. That's why they LOVE to ambush you as the road takes a blind curve at the bottom of a hill.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
The fuck did he go? PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T STARTING A CULT SOMEWHERE
I don't have time for that shit.
nah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back. :)
something something black iron prison
YAY!!!! Its a Moustache with a Cram under it!!!
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
The fuck did he go? PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T STARTING A CULT SOMEWHERE
I don't have time for that shit.
nah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back. :)
something something black iron prison
YAY!!!! Its a Moustache with a Cram under it!!!
AND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
I won't. :argh!:
Phox,
Refuses to try. On principle.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
and I, fair n00bess, will treat you like the shining jewel that you are.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
I will totally call you Susan.
:lulz:
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:44:02 PM
and I, fair n00bess, will treat you like the shining jewel that you are.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
Calling Roger "susan" isn't normal, but on Roger it is.
Roger, not even once.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
Why does this scare me? :eek:
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 08, 2011, 07:51:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
Calling Roger "susan" isn't normal, but on Roger it is.
Roger, not even once.
HEY! YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT SUSAN THAT WAY! :argh!:
Quote from: Khara on April 08, 2011, 07:52:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
Why does this scare me? :eek:
Because you're not stupid? :) Ro... um... Susan is likely to be more beneficient and interesting in ways that'll make people shudder.
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
SUSAN! Our first Female Mod!
I have a feeling that it will be HIGHLY entertaining.
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
Nigel, can I haz your baby?
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
I am totally considering that. :lulz:
I just need the correct avatar.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
The fuck did he go? PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T STARTING A CULT SOMEWHERE
I don't have time for that shit.
nah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back. :)
something something black iron prison
YAY!!!! Its a Moustache with a Cram under it!!!
AND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
I got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
yeah I didn't say that. In fact, I went out of my way to clarify that me leaving wasn't about you. A few times. But hey, no reason not to start a fight, amirite?
OHFUK!
GOT IT.
WATCH THIS SPACE TONIGHT OR TOMORROW MORNING.
TGRR,
SICK IN THE PANCE.
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
I WILL GO ALONG WITH THIS PLAN!!! FOR
SCIENCE!!!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:58:27 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
I am totally considering that. :lulz:
I just need the correct avatar.
(http://images.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_TN/0184-0807-1311-2853_TN.jpg)
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2011, 07:59:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2011, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 23, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
The fuck did he go? PLEASE TELL ME HE ISN'T STARTING A CULT SOMEWHERE
I don't have time for that shit.
nah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back. :)
something something black iron prison
YAY!!!! Its a Moustache with a Cram under it!!!
AND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
I got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 08, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Yeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on. :)
And I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
From now on, I want you all to call me Susan, and I shall endeavor to be a more beneficient, interesting Discordian.
yeah I didn't say that. In fact, I went out of my way to clarify that me leaving wasn't about you. A few times. But hey, no reason not to start a fight, amirite?
No Fighting! You just got back, you have to post in at least 5 threads before you two can fight, OK....
:)
disaster GRL?
Bea Aurthur?
Nancy Reagan?
I assume that by "leaving", you actually mean "lurking every day for the last few weeks but not posting". :lulz:
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2011, 07:59:11 PM
yeah I didn't say that. In fact, I went out of my way to clarify that me leaving wasn't about you. A few times. But hey, no reason not to start a fight, amirite?
Oh, I wasn't talking about when you left PD. I was talking about another conversation entirely. Actually, a couple of conversations.
Susan,
Hears things, sees screenshots, etc.
Quote from: Richter on April 08, 2011, 08:01:06 PM
disaster GRL?
Bea Aurthur?
Nancy Reagan?
Oh, no.
This is pure 169%
Roger Susan SICKNESS.
Out of all the awesome threads currently being worked in on PD right now, this is the only one you chose to post in Cram?
I have to agree with ECH and Roger, I'm sorry we are too boring for you.
You might find us a bit more interesting here http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28761.0 (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28761.0)
here http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28822.0 (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28822.0)
here http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28827.0 (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28827.0)
or here http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28824.0 (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=28824.0)
:D
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
Hey Cram,
Hope things are going well for you and your brain.
Pay no attention to Susan, she's...
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
Oh, and that.
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
And I provided threads that are highly entertaining.... I'm not being pissy, I was being helpful. :)
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
That's not why I'm pissy. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 08:16:28 PM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
That's not why I'm pissy. :)
Don't mind Susan, she's got PMS
:lulz:
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 08:16:28 PM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
That's not why I'm pissy. :)
Don't mind Susan, she's got PMS
:lulz:
That's next week.
This week, it's all about a woman scorned, hell hath no fury, etc.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:59:30 PM
OHFUK!
GOT IT.
WATCH THIS SPACE TONIGHT OR TOMORROW MORNING.
TGRR,
SICK IN THE PANCE.
DEW EEEEEEET
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 08:24:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 08:16:28 PM
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
That's not why I'm pissy. :)
Don't mind Susan, she's got PMS
:lulz:
That's next week.
This week, it's all about a woman scorned, hell hath no fury, etc.
:lulz:
You may notice that I answered one of his posts in a civil fashion in the orange-eating thread.
I'm not going to spag up the whole board shitting my hate. Just in this thread, which is in fact the relevant place to post this sort of shit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 08:28:13 PM
You may notice that I answered one of his posts in a civil fashion in the orange-eating thread.
I'm not going to spag up the whole board shitting my hate. Just in this thread, which is in fact the relevant place to post this sort of shit.
Shit as thou will is the whole of the law...
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 08, 2011, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 08:28:13 PM
You may notice that I answered one of his posts in a civil fashion in the orange-eating thread.
I'm not going to spag up the whole board shitting my hate. Just in this thread, which is in fact the relevant place to post this sort of shit.
Shit as thou will is the whole of the law...
I'm getting older. I find it easier to concentrate a highly corrosive shit than to spray lower quality fecal matter everywhere.
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
Never mind the n00bs, see how the regulars react. Susan.
Quote from: The Fred ⊂(◉‿◉)つ on April 08, 2011, 08:13:12 PM
he didnt say you guys were boring he said he was BORED
i frequently get bored with this place
no need to get pissy about it
that's not
why I'm pissy. Just a convenient excuse for me to express it.
Susan, yeah? Ok.
(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab46/Altyvision/susan-sontag-500.jpg)
(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab46/Altyvision/susan_boyle2.jpg)
(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab46/Altyvision/406-EU_BRITAIN_SINGING_SENSATION_LON805standaloneprod_affiliate81.jpg)
SMOKIN HOT, BRO.
(http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab46/Altyvision/susananthony.jpg)
And this one linked because it just got less whimsical in here.
FUCKING REMOVED THOUGHT IT WAS AN ADULT AND NOW I FEEL VERY SICK, I'm very sorry anyone who clicked that. For clarification it looked like a very unwell infant.
FUCKING FUCK YOU ALTY! :x
ETA: removed link.
Quote from: Luna on April 08, 2011, 08:00:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:58:27 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
I am totally considering that. :lulz:
I just need the correct avatar.
(http://images.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_TN/0184-0807-1311-2853_TN.jpg)
suggestion.
(http://i.imgur.com/AxGQc.gif)
Quote from: BadBeast on April 08, 2011, 08:53:26 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 08, 2011, 08:00:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2011, 07:58:27 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 07:57:07 PM
ROGER I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR USERNAME TO SUSAN AND YOUR AVATAR TO A PRETTY GIRL FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO SEE HOW N00BS REACT!!!
I am totally considering that. :lulz:
I just need the correct avatar.
(http://images.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_TN/0184-0807-1311-2853_TN.jpg)
suggestion.
(http://i.imgur.com/AxGQc.gif)
I think the man's hands disturb me more than Shirley Temple slicing his throat with that grin. :x
What is that FROM?
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 09:33:54 PM
What is that FROM?
Not sure, but isn't it Shirley (Susan) Temple?
Quote from: BadBeast on April 08, 2011, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 09:33:54 PM
What is that FROM?
Not sure, but isn't it Shirley (Susan) Temple?
Ummm no. Shirley Jane Temple :lulz:
Quote from: Khara on April 08, 2011, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on April 08, 2011, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 08, 2011, 09:33:54 PM
What is that FROM?
Not sure, but isn't it Shirley (Susan) Temple?
Ummm no. Shirley Jane Temple :lulz:
Bit before my time. But I love the look of unbridled joy on her face.
It's from the movie Baby, Take a Bow.
Thanks! I haven't seen that one... maybe I need to.
FIXED.
Cram-
Glad you're back (I think... I think that you're back, not that I think that I'm glad).
WOW
Quote from: Cramnah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back.
something something black iron prison
Quote from: RogerAND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
Quote from: CramI got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: ECHYeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on.
Quote from: RogerAnd I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
Quote from: RogerOh, I wasn't talking about when you left PD. I was talking about another conversation entirely. Actually, a couple of conversations.
Susan,
Hears things, sees screenshots, etc.
You know how fucking creepy that is???
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice,
regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
And to top it off, apparently Roger is keeping tabs on what Cramulus says to people not on PD
via screenshots (WTF?!?!!)... WOw. That is
not okay. Especially since I'm 100% sure that Cramulus does NOT believe "Discordia is better off without Roger", but Roger just told us, here, that he does.
This is really not good. Really really bad. I'm seriously going to have to think about being involved in this because this just changed from a fun place to hang out into a creepy fucking cult. And I've been here for years. And so has Cramulus.
And now I just don't know, if I were ever to leave here, whether I'm going to be kept tabs on, screenshotted and informed on, then twisted my words to make it look like I was shittalking about people here. Fuck.
Well that's what it seems like to me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and you all are saying "ah but no that's not why I'm pissed" then I wonder wtf Cram did to all of you, cause right now it sure as fuck seems like you're just jumping on his ass for leaving. And not in a nice "we miss your input" kind of way.
This thread looks like it's about to get more interesting.
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on April 03, 2011, 04:59:41 PM
I don't have much to add, except that when David Attenborough says "puma" it sounds like "pew-muh."
Also, those of the eastern variety are rumored to be extinct:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=giving-up-on-the-ghost-cat-eastern-2011-03-09
Though, the cougars are moving eastwards again, at least in the Midwest.
My dad told me about a friend of his who has land in North Central Wisconsin. He set out some trail cams to check what his white tail population looks like. When he picked them back up, turns out he had cougars! This was less than five years ago too. We've got wolves again in Central Wisconsin, and cougars. And that is just plain awesome.
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on April 09, 2011, 06:23:17 PM
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on April 03, 2011, 04:59:41 PM
I don't have much to add, except that when David Attenborough says "puma" it sounds like "pew-muh."
Also, those of the eastern variety are rumored to be extinct:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=giving-up-on-the-ghost-cat-eastern-2011-03-09
Though, the cougars are moving eastwards again, at least in the Midwest.
My dad told me about a friend of his who has land in North Central Wisconsin. He set out some trail cams to check what his white tail population looks like. When he picked them back up, turns out he had cougars! This was less than five years ago too. We've got wolves again in Central Wisconsin, and cougars. And that is just plain awesome.
That is fucking awesome.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 09, 2011, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: ϗ, M.S. on April 09, 2011, 06:23:17 PM
Quote from: ☄ · · · N E T · · · ☄ on April 03, 2011, 04:59:41 PM
I don't have much to add, except that when David Attenborough says "puma" it sounds like "pew-muh."
Also, those of the eastern variety are rumored to be extinct:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=giving-up-on-the-ghost-cat-eastern-2011-03-09
Though, the cougars are moving eastwards again, at least in the Midwest.
My dad told me about a friend of his who has land in North Central Wisconsin. He set out some trail cams to check what his white tail population looks like. When he picked them back up, turns out he had cougars! This was less than five years ago too. We've got wolves again in Central Wisconsin, and cougars. And that is just plain awesome.
That is fucking awesome.
Agreed.
I also feel the need to say that I liked it when Cram was around, although he probably won't be back any time soon, with reception he got.
That guy brought A LOT of good content to the board. I don't care what you say, I'm going to miss him.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
WOW
Quote from: Cramnah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back.
something something black iron prison
Quote from: RogerAND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
Quote from: CramI got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: ECHYeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on.
Quote from: RogerAnd I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
Quote from: RogerOh, I wasn't talking about when you left PD. I was talking about another conversation entirely. Actually, a couple of conversations.
Susan,
Hears things, sees screenshots, etc.
You know how fucking creepy that is???
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
And to top it off, apparently Roger is keeping tabs on what Cramulus says to people not on PD via screenshots (WTF?!?!!)... WOw. That is not okay. Especially since I'm 100% sure that Cramulus does NOT believe "Discordia is better off without Roger", but Roger just told us, here, that he does.
This is really not good. Really really bad. I'm seriously going to have to think about being involved in this because this just changed from a fun place to hang out into a creepy fucking cult. And I've been here for years. And so has Cramulus.
And now I just don't know, if I were ever to leave here, whether I'm going to be kept tabs on, screenshotted and informed on, then twisted my words to make it look like I was shittalking about people here. Fuck.
Well that's what it seems like to me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and you all are saying "ah but no that's not why I'm pissed" then I wonder wtf Cram did to all of you, cause right now it sure as fuck seems like you're just jumping on his ass for leaving. And not in a nice "we miss your input" kind of way.
I hate to say it, but I think 000 has a point. If someone can't flip out or just get bored and leave, maybe even with a "fuck all you guys", without being turned into a public enemy and having their conversations scrutinized for criticism, this isn't Discordia, this is a cult of personality.
Oh, and I told him the same thing I've been telling you; when you try to CONTROL people's behavior and the content they post, you lose. His problem with the board was that the board wasn't behaving the way he wanted it to. I had the same problem. I am realizing that the board will NEVER be what I want it to be, AND IT WON'T EVER BE EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE, EITHER.
Gonna have to jump in with Nigel and TripZip here.
I do my best to keep my nose out of shit like this because it's always gotten me burned in the past, and nearly always made things worse rather than better, but Cram has stuck up for me more than once on the board and since he's an IRL friend of mine, I kind of have to ask wtf he did to deserve being treated like a traitor.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 09, 2011, 06:35:47 PM
I also feel the need to say that I liked it when Cram was around, although he probably won't be back any time soon, with reception he got.
That guy brought A LOT of good content to the board. I don't care what you say, I'm going to miss him.
Me too. He was creative and positive in a way that is fairly abnormal for the board. I'd say you're the only other regular poster who approaches things in anything like that way. He wasn't all "The world sucks, hate hate, this is awful that is awful rawr" Not that that approach isn't perfectly valid, there's plenty of awful and I tend to contribute (when I do) from roughly that approach myself. But having more positive posters around as a balance to that is really nice and losing one of the more eloquent and prolific ones is a shame.
I guess everyone just forgot about the week of mouth-frothing he spewed all over the place before he "flounced" (by which I mean "lurked under alternate accounts for a few weeks").
I can't speak for Roger or whatever his beef is or what he's talking about with screenshots and shit, but I thought Cram acted like a major asshole before he ran off, and he took his assholishness about PD to unrelated venues like Facebook and 23ae (much of which was pretty clearly directed at Roger, so I don't blame him for feeling the way he does), as though he were some sort of internet paladin fighting the good fight against the bad people here. I mean, whatever, he's always welcome here. He's a long-standing member of this community, and a frequently prolific contributor. That doesn't mean he gets a license to be a first-rate asshole without getting called out on it.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 08:12:03 PM
I guess everyone just forgot about the week of mouth-frothing he spewed all over the place before he "flounced" (by which I mean "lurked under alternate accounts for a few weeks").
I can't speak for Roger or whatever his beef is or what he's talking about with screenshots and shit, but I thought Cram acted like a major asshole before he ran off, and he took his assholishness about PD to unrelated venues like Facebook and 23ae (much of which was pretty clearly directed at Roger, so I don't blame him for feeling the way he does), as though he were some sort of internet paladin fighting the good fight against the bad people here. I mean, whatever, he's always welcome here. He's a long-standing member of this community, and a frequently prolific contributor. That doesn't mean he gets a license to be a first-rate asshole without getting called out on it.
So I didn't hallucinate all of that.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 08:12:03 PM
I guess everyone just forgot about the week of mouth-frothing he spewed all over the place before he "flounced" (by which I mean "lurked under alternate accounts for a few weeks").
I can't speak for Roger or whatever his beef is or what he's talking about with screenshots and shit, but I thought Cram acted like a major asshole before he ran off, and he took his assholishness about PD to unrelated venues like Facebook and 23ae (much of which was pretty clearly directed at Roger, so I don't blame him for feeling the way he does), as though he were some sort of internet paladin fighting the good fight against the bad people here. I mean, whatever, he's always welcome here. He's a long-standing member of this community, and a frequently prolific contributor. That doesn't mean he gets a license to be a first-rate asshole without getting called out on it.
I didn't forget about it, I missed it, because I had quietly flounced a couple weeks prior. So, if he had some delusional stream of invective and condemnation going on that I missed, it's because I wasn't here.
If he was shit-talking Roger all over the place, then I certainly can't hold it against Roger for holding a grudge.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 08:12:03 PM
I guess everyone just forgot about the week of mouth-frothing he spewed all over the place before he "flounced" (by which I mean "lurked under alternate accounts for a few weeks").
I can't speak for Roger or whatever his beef is or what he's talking about with screenshots and shit, but I thought Cram acted like a major asshole before he ran off, and he took his assholishness about PD to unrelated venues like Facebook and 23ae (much of which was pretty clearly directed at Roger, so I don't blame him for feeling the way he does), as though he were some sort of internet paladin fighting the good fight against the bad people here. I mean, whatever, he's always welcome here. He's a long-standing member of this community, and a frequently prolific contributor. That doesn't mean he gets a license to be a first-rate asshole without getting called out on it.
I read 23AE and I am friends with Cram on Facebook and I don't see a single thing about PD.com that is negative in either location (I just went and looked again in case I had missed something)... Well, he did make one post about how it had been a month since he posted, but that was all. If he was saying stuff in IM's to his Facebook friends, I'm not sure how thats tanking "his assholishness about PD to unrelated venues".
As for his behavior here before he left? After the firefights, shitstorms, uberflounces and knock down drag out Thunderdome-style exits I've seen... he was pretty mild by comparison.
Still, even if he did pitch a fit and skulk for a month, haven't most of us?
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
If he was shit-talking Roger all over the place, then I certainly can't hold it against Roger for holding a grudge.
Wrong person. It was CU and that has been resolved.
I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.
Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 08:12:03 PM
I guess everyone just forgot about the week of mouth-frothing he spewed all over the place before he "flounced" (by which I mean "lurked under alternate accounts for a few weeks").
I can't speak for Roger or whatever his beef is or what he's talking about with screenshots and shit, but I thought Cram acted like a major asshole before he ran off, and he took his assholishness about PD to unrelated venues like Facebook and 23ae (much of which was pretty clearly directed at Roger, so I don't blame him for feeling the way he does), as though he were some sort of internet paladin fighting the good fight against the bad people here. I mean, whatever, he's always welcome here. He's a long-standing member of this community, and a frequently prolific contributor. That doesn't mean he gets a license to be a first-rate asshole without getting called out on it.
I didn't forget about it, I missed it, because I had quietly flounced a couple weeks prior. So, if he had some delusional stream of invective and condemnation going on that I missed, it's because I wasn't here.
I missed it too, and I didn't flounce.
I did notice that he and Roger had a bunch of heated arguments before he left, but that's between Roger and him (similar arguments about stuff on PD they disagreed on before). However that's no reason to take it that personal when someone decides to leave PD because he got different priorities in his life. Nor does being bored with PD equate to "we're all boring".
Especially since (according to ECH) he's been lurking anyhow, so we must have been interesting enough to read, but gotten bored with putting his own energy in that. Nothing wrong with lurking.
Now I can understand that if Rog and he were having a fight just before he left, and if that didn't get resolved, then Roger doesn't need to be nice to him, of course. And if that was just that, I would have stayed out of it, just like I had stayed out of their argument earlier.
But he didn't just take a dump on Cramulus, instead he painted him like a traitor to whole PD, like he'd been discrediting everybody, campaigning behind all our backs, like some sort of third-rate troll (we all know the type). That's not the Cramulus I know, and I don't believe it for a second. And then suddenly I felt this chill down my spine, what if I would want to leave PD one day, while I'd have some unresolved tension with people, and I'd stay in touch with others via IRC or wherever, would I get the same treatment? Cause I didn't sign up for that.
I think this was stated about 5 times already, but this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Cram leaving PD. Everyone's free to come and go, even if nobody can ever leave.
Quote from: Faust on April 09, 2011, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
If he was shit-talking Roger all over the place, then I certainly can't hold it against Roger for holding a grudge.
Wrong person. It was CU and that has been resolved.
THAT, I remember.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 09:09:56 PM
I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.
Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.
I dunno, I looked through both of his facebook accounts and the Discordian group and see nothing like it. So the rest of your point was he had a fight with Roger and was an asshole? Doesn't that describe all but 23% of PD.com? ;-)
Maybe there's something else I'm missing, but from my perspective, it seems pretty shitty and kinda disturbing. I'm pretty sure I've been far more of an asshole than Cram ever has....
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 06:40:07 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
WOW
Quote from: Cramnah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back.
something something black iron prison
Quote from: RogerAND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
Quote from: CramI got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: ECHYeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on.
Quote from: RogerAnd I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
Quote from: RogerOh, I wasn't talking about when you left PD. I was talking about another conversation entirely. Actually, a couple of conversations.
Susan,
Hears things, sees screenshots, etc.
You know how fucking creepy that is???
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
And to top it off, apparently Roger is keeping tabs on what Cramulus says to people not on PD via screenshots (WTF?!?!!)... WOw. That is not okay. Especially since I'm 100% sure that Cramulus does NOT believe "Discordia is better off without Roger", but Roger just told us, here, that he does.
This is really not good. Really really bad. I'm seriously going to have to think about being involved in this because this just changed from a fun place to hang out into a creepy fucking cult. And I've been here for years. And so has Cramulus.
And now I just don't know, if I were ever to leave here, whether I'm going to be kept tabs on, screenshotted and informed on, then twisted my words to make it look like I was shittalking about people here. Fuck.
Well that's what it seems like to me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and you all are saying "ah but no that's not why I'm pissed" then I wonder wtf Cram did to all of you, cause right now it sure as fuck seems like you're just jumping on his ass for leaving. And not in a nice "we miss your input" kind of way.
I hate to say it, but I think 000 has a point. If someone can't flip out or just get bored and leave, maybe even with a "fuck all you guys", without being turned into a public enemy and having their conversations scrutinized for criticism, this isn't Discordia, this is a cult of personality.
It's not why I'm pissed. People leave all the time, they come back, whatever.
Someone shits on me, though, especially behind my back, I'm going to call them on it. If that's "cult of personality", then call me Charles fucking Manson, I suppose.
You know what? Fuck this noise. I have shit to do.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
You know how fucking creepy that is???
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
And to top it off, apparently Roger is keeping tabs on what Cramulus says to people not on PD via screenshots (WTF?!?!!)... WOw. That is not okay. Especially since I'm 100% sure that Cramulus does NOT believe "Discordia is better off without Roger", but Roger just told us, here, that he does.
This is really not good. Really really bad. I'm seriously going to have to think about being involved in this because this just changed from a fun place to hang out into a creepy fucking cult. And I've been here for years. And so has Cramulus.
And now I just don't know, if I were ever to leave here, whether I'm going to be kept tabs on, screenshotted and informed on, then twisted my words to make it look like I was shittalking about people here. Fuck.
Well that's what it seems like to me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and you all are saying "ah but no that's not why I'm pissed" then I wonder wtf Cram did to all of you, cause right now it sure as fuck seems like you're just jumping on his ass for leaving. And not in a nice "we miss your input" kind of way.
Yeah, so I get sent a screenshot of Cram saying "Discordia would be better of without Roger", and that makes me L Ron fucking Hubbard.
Eat a dick.
Quote from: Susan on April 10, 2011, 02:43:18 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 06:40:07 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
WOW
Quote from: Cramnah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back.
something something black iron prison
Quote from: RogerAND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
Quote from: CramI got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: ECHYeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on.
Quote from: RogerAnd I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
Quote from: RogerOh, I wasn't talking about when you left PD. I was talking about another conversation entirely. Actually, a couple of conversations.
Susan,
Hears things, sees screenshots, etc.
You know how fucking creepy that is???
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
And to top it off, apparently Roger is keeping tabs on what Cramulus says to people not on PD via screenshots (WTF?!?!!)... WOw. That is not okay. Especially since I'm 100% sure that Cramulus does NOT believe "Discordia is better off without Roger", but Roger just told us, here, that he does.
This is really not good. Really really bad. I'm seriously going to have to think about being involved in this because this just changed from a fun place to hang out into a creepy fucking cult. And I've been here for years. And so has Cramulus.
And now I just don't know, if I were ever to leave here, whether I'm going to be kept tabs on, screenshotted and informed on, then twisted my words to make it look like I was shittalking about people here. Fuck.
Well that's what it seems like to me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and you all are saying "ah but no that's not why I'm pissed" then I wonder wtf Cram did to all of you, cause right now it sure as fuck seems like you're just jumping on his ass for leaving. And not in a nice "we miss your input" kind of way.
I hate to say it, but I think 000 has a point. If someone can't flip out or just get bored and leave, maybe even with a "fuck all you guys", without being turned into a public enemy and having their conversations scrutinized for criticism, this isn't Discordia, this is a cult of personality.
It's not why I'm pissed. People leave all the time, they come back, whatever.
Someone shits on me, though, especially behind my back, I'm going to call them on it. If that's "cult of personality", then call me Charles fucking Manson, I suppose.
You know what? Fuck this noise. I have shit to do.
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
If he was shit-talking Roger all over the place, then I certainly can't hold it against Roger for holding a grudge.
So, what exactly happened? I read back a few pages, just saw a spontaneous shitstorm form.
At any rate, this is a forum on the internet, not a blood pact cult. Aside from wanting the content someone produces back, why does it matter if someone leaves? Am I missing something here?
Quote from: pH on April 10, 2011, 03:20:33 AM
So, what exactly happened? I read back a few pages, just saw a spontaneous shitstorm form.
At any rate, this is a forum on the internet, not a blood pact cult. Aside from wanting the content someone produces back, why does it matter if someone leaves? Am I missing something here?
YES. He stated several times that it wasn't about Cram leaving. Lrn to attentionspan.
Quote from: pH on April 10, 2011, 03:20:33 AM
So, what exactly happened? I read back a few pages, just saw a spontaneous shitstorm form.
At any rate, this is a forum on the internet, not a blood pact cult. Aside from wanting the content someone produces back, why does it matter if someone leaves? Am I missing something here?
That has nothing to do with it, shitstain. Now go back to telling us about how those awful brown people are taking your scholarships.
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2011, 02:50:20 AM
Quote from: Susan on April 10, 2011, 02:43:18 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 06:40:07 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
WOW
Quote from: Cramnah I just got bored
made some shifts in my priorities and routine. Catapulted myself into a new head space and didn't look back.
something something black iron prison
Quote from: RogerAND WE'RE ALL BORING! YAY!
Quote from: CramI got bored. I wasn't having fun here.
You can treat that like a personal attack if you want, but it's not about you.
Quote from: ECHYeah, we'll try to be less boring from now on.
Quote from: RogerAnd I shall try to be less Roger, as "Discordia would be better off without Roger", as is well known.
Quote from: RogerOh, I wasn't talking about when you left PD. I was talking about another conversation entirely. Actually, a couple of conversations.
Susan,
Hears things, sees screenshots, etc.
You know how fucking creepy that is???
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
And to top it off, apparently Roger is keeping tabs on what Cramulus says to people not on PD via screenshots (WTF?!?!!)... WOw. That is not okay. Especially since I'm 100% sure that Cramulus does NOT believe "Discordia is better off without Roger", but Roger just told us, here, that he does.
This is really not good. Really really bad. I'm seriously going to have to think about being involved in this because this just changed from a fun place to hang out into a creepy fucking cult. And I've been here for years. And so has Cramulus.
And now I just don't know, if I were ever to leave here, whether I'm going to be kept tabs on, screenshotted and informed on, then twisted my words to make it look like I was shittalking about people here. Fuck.
Well that's what it seems like to me. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and you all are saying "ah but no that's not why I'm pissed" then I wonder wtf Cram did to all of you, cause right now it sure as fuck seems like you're just jumping on his ass for leaving. And not in a nice "we miss your input" kind of way.
I hate to say it, but I think 000 has a point. If someone can't flip out or just get bored and leave, maybe even with a "fuck all you guys", without being turned into a public enemy and having their conversations scrutinized for criticism, this isn't Discordia, this is a cult of personality.
It's not why I'm pissed. People leave all the time, they come back, whatever.
Someone shits on me, though, especially behind my back, I'm going to call them on it. If that's "cult of personality", then call me Charles fucking Manson, I suppose.
You know what? Fuck this noise. I have shit to do.
Quote from: Nigel on April 09, 2011, 08:15:28 PM
If he was shit-talking Roger all over the place, then I certainly can't hold it against Roger for holding a grudge.
Yeah, sorry about that, Nigel. Read that kind of funny.
Thing is, I'm more than a little sick of having the worst possible motives assigned to anything I say or do. Not complaining about you, but rather Trip's
bizarre take on what I said.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 09, 2011, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 09:09:56 PM
I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.
Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.
I dunno, I looked through both of his facebook accounts and the Discordian group and see nothing like it. So the rest of your point was he had a fight with Roger and was an asshole? Doesn't that describe all but 23% of PD.com? ;-)
Maybe there's something else I'm missing, but from my perspective, it seems pretty shitty and kinda disturbing. I'm pretty sure I've been far more of an asshole than Cram ever has....
See what I fucking mean?
Quote from: Cainad on April 09, 2011, 06:46:13 PM
Gonna have to jump in with Nigel and TripZip here.
I do my best to keep my nose out of shit like this because it's always gotten me burned in the past, and nearly always made things worse rather than better, but Cram has stuck up for me more than once on the board and since he's an IRL friend of mine, I kind of have to ask wtf he did to deserve being treated like a traitor.
Who said he acted like a traitor?
Jesus fucking Christ.
Again, I don't have much to say about this particular situation because I missed it completely. I'm kind of bummed about the way it seems to have gone down, because Roger is my friend, and I really like Cram, and it seems like we have all had a bunch of fun times together. Both personalities have been such a strong part of the culture of the board.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 09:59:24 PM
I think this was stated about 5 times already, but this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Cram leaving PD. Everyone's free to come and go, even if nobody can ever leave.
Won't do any fucking good, ECH. Their minds are made up, there was never any Goddamn question about what actually happened or didn't happen.
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2011, 03:55:03 AM
Again, I don't have much to say about this particular situation because I missed it completely. I'm kind of bummed about the way it seems to have gone down, because I really like Cram, Roger is my friend, and it seems like we have all had a bunch of fun times together. Both personalities have been such a strong part of the culture of the board.
He gave reasons for leaving. Anyone can leave. I don't grudge him that at all...It's not like I've never flounced.
I also know that he's never approved of my "brand" of Discordianism, from my attitude, to my take on intellectual property. I am also okay with that.
But if he's trash-talking me, that I have a problem with. Now, I wasn't THERE when he said it, and I did PM him to ask what he had to say about it, but he never responded (he typically doesn't respond to me about much of anything). If he denies saying what he is supposed to have said, then I will believe him and apologize...And go the fuck off on the people that had sent me the relevant screen shots (they can be doctored). But I don't think he will.
As for Trip's statement that my receiving said screenshots is equal to PD being a cult, that's fucking ridiculous, and he can kiss my festering asshole. It's not like people haven't fought around here before, and his decision to get involved by twisting things like a Goddamn teabagger is both puzzling and a bit infuriating.
I
expect Rat to do that, so no surprise there. pH is essentially in the same catagory.
Cainad was a bit of a shock, though I suppose I should have expected it.
Okay, let's just go with this, everyone: I am a horrible cult leader, and I have hired assassins to track Cram down for fleeing the cult. Now, everyone, bottoms-up with the Koolaid, we don't have all fucking day.
Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything. But fuck it. Raise your hand if you saw what went down prior to cram leaving. *raises hand*
Now, if you did not raise your hand (no cheating now), sit the fuck down, and shut the FUCK up.
If you did indeed raise your hand, then allow me to ask why you assume that Roger's being a dick here. You saw what went down, and if he's not happy with Cram... well, I wouldn't be either. So sit the fuck down, and shut the FUCK up.
Another thing, Roger is limiting his spewing to THIS FUCKING THREAD.
I have no problems with Cram. I like him, I like his stuff most of the time, and I don't think I've ever exchanged harsh words with him (which is more than I can say for about half of you). I don't know if he intends to come back or not, or whether it has anything to do with Roger, or anything of the sort. I ain't him, I don't fucking know. But what I do know is, that if he can't take a little hate-shitting IN A SINGLE FUCKING THREAD, which he can easily ignore, then he doesn't need to be here. Simple. It's not like none of us know where to go to find him. If he wants to come back, he'll come back. If he doesn't, that sucks, but it's his decision.
Wait... Someone said something to someone else on the Internet and someone took that thing and sent a copy to someone else to show them that that said something bad?
I'm hoping this is about to become compellingly more sinister, because right now it's moving into psycho teenage girl bullshit territory.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 10, 2011, 04:18:01 AM
Wait... Someone said something to someone else on the Internet and someone took that thing and sent a copy to someone else to show them that that said something bad?
I'm hoping this is about to become compellingly more sinister, because right now it's moving into psycho teenage girl bullshit territory.
Oh, it's far more sinister. I have sent an army of cultists out to entrap Cram into saying rotten shit, and then to report back to me. I have de-deprogrammers standing by to brainwash anyone who doesn't like it, and I will cram Thetans in your head so fast you'll shit your medulla out of your ass under such pressure that you will develop no less than four (4) fistulas.
NOBODY LEAVES! OR ELSE!
Now stare deeply into the eyes of "Bob". It's a life-changing experience.
:bob:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 04:22:39 AM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 10, 2011, 04:18:01 AM
Wait... Someone said something to someone else on the Internet and someone took that thing and sent a copy to someone else to show them that that said something bad?
I'm hoping this is about to become compellingly more sinister, because right now it's moving into psycho teenage girl bullshit territory.
Oh, it's far more sinister. I have sent an army of cultists out to entrap Cram into saying rotten shit, and then to report back to me. I have de-deprogrammers standing by to brainwash anyone who doesn't like it, and I will cram Thetans in your head so fast you'll shit your medulla out of your ass under such pressure that you will develop no less than four (4) fistulas.
NOBODY LEAVES! OR ELSE!
Now stare deeply into the eyes of "Bob". It's a life-changing experience.
:bob:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 04:22:39 AM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 10, 2011, 04:18:01 AM
Wait... Someone said something to someone else on the Internet and someone took that thing and sent a copy to someone else to show them that that said something bad?
I'm hoping this is about to become compellingly more sinister, because right now it's moving into psycho teenage girl bullshit territory.
Oh, it's far more sinister. I have sent an army of cultists out to entrap Cram into saying rotten shit, and then to report back to me. I have de-deprogrammers standing by to brainwash anyone who doesn't like it, and I will cram Thetans in your head so fast you'll shit your medulla out of your ass under such pressure that you will develop no less than four (4) fistulas.
NOBODY LEAVES! OR ELSE!
Now stare deeply into the eyes of "Bob". It's a life-changing experience.
:bob:
Thank goodness. I was getting worried for a moment.
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 10, 2011, 04:25:02 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 04:22:39 AM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 10, 2011, 04:18:01 AM
Wait... Someone said something to someone else on the Internet and someone took that thing and sent a copy to someone else to show them that that said something bad?
I'm hoping this is about to become compellingly more sinister, because right now it's moving into psycho teenage girl bullshit territory.
Oh, it's far more sinister. I have sent an army of cultists out to entrap Cram into saying rotten shit, and then to report back to me. I have de-deprogrammers standing by to brainwash anyone who doesn't like it, and I will cram Thetans in your head so fast you'll shit your medulla out of your ass under such pressure that you will develop no less than four (4) fistulas.
NOBODY LEAVES! OR ELSE!
Now stare deeply into the eyes of "Bob". It's a life-changing experience.
:bob:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
LOOK! THE FUCKING PIPE STEM ISN'T BETWEEN HIS TEETH! IT'S JUST FLOATING THERE!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 10, 2011, 04:25:13 AM
Thank goodness. I was getting worried for a moment.
Well, yes. I am known for my calm disposition, and for never taking up a beef with someone, no matter the provocation.
Unless they try to leave the cult. Then it's on like Pamela Anderson's herpes, bitches!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 04:26:00 AM
Quote from: Doktor Phox on April 10, 2011, 04:25:02 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 04:22:39 AM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 10, 2011, 04:18:01 AM
Wait... Someone said something to someone else on the Internet and someone took that thing and sent a copy to someone else to show them that that said something bad?
I'm hoping this is about to become compellingly more sinister, because right now it's moving into psycho teenage girl bullshit territory.
Oh, it's far more sinister. I have sent an army of cultists out to entrap Cram into saying rotten shit, and then to report back to me. I have de-deprogrammers standing by to brainwash anyone who doesn't like it, and I will cram Thetans in your head so fast you'll shit your medulla out of your ass under such pressure that you will develop no less than four (4) fistulas.
NOBODY LEAVES! OR ELSE!
Now stare deeply into the eyes of "Bob". It's a life-changing experience.
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1070/zalbob.png)
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
LOOK! THE FUCKING PIPE STEM ISN'T BETWEEN HIS TEETH! IT'S JUST FLOATING THERE!
Pammy has teh :eek: Hurpeys? Sheeeit!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 04:04:00 AM
I expect Rat to do that, so no surprise there. pH is essentially in the same catagory.
Uh, note what I commented on... ECH, not you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 03:55:09 AM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 09:59:24 PM
I think this was stated about 5 times already, but this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Cram leaving PD. Everyone's free to come and go, even if nobody can ever leave.
Won't do any fucking good, ECH. Their minds are made up, there was never any Goddamn question about what actually happened or didn't happen.
Not really. I'm willing to listen to what motivated this (I saw your post about the screenshot, and about PMing Cram for an explanation... currently dwelling on that), and I'll accept that I may have jumped the gun by voicing an ill-informed opinion.
If what you say is true (and I don't have any good reason to believe that it's not), then this is indeed a matter of personal beef and not about Cram flouncing. And, given that, there's really nothing else for me to add to this discussion that isn't more shit-stirring.
Cainad,
just when I thought I'd learned to keep my big fucking mouth shut...
Quote from: Cainad on April 10, 2011, 06:19:55 AM
Not really. I'm willing to listen to what motivated this (I saw your post about the screenshot, and about PMing Cram for an explanation... currently dwelling on that), and I'll accept that I may have jumped the gun by voicing an ill-informed opinion.
No, the default position is that Roger is bad, and does bad things, just for the hell of it.
I'm like the Fu Manchu of PD.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 06:23:22 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 10, 2011, 06:19:55 AM
Not really. I'm willing to listen to what motivated this (I saw your post about the screenshot, and about PMing Cram for an explanation... currently dwelling on that), and I'll accept that I may have jumped the gun by voicing an ill-informed opinion.
No, the default position is that Roger is bad, and does bad things, just for the hell of it.
I'm like the Fu Manchu of PD.
Yes, sir! Sorry, sir!
*ahem*
ROGER WTF IS WRONG WITH YUO WHY DID YOU DO THAT AWFUL THING
I AM SO INCREDIBLY UPSET BY YOUR APPARENTLY UNJUSTIFIED DICKERY
BAAAAAAAW
...Is more correct, yes?
Quote from: Cainad on April 10, 2011, 06:25:54 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2011, 06:23:22 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 10, 2011, 06:19:55 AM
Not really. I'm willing to listen to what motivated this (I saw your post about the screenshot, and about PMing Cram for an explanation... currently dwelling on that), and I'll accept that I may have jumped the gun by voicing an ill-informed opinion.
No, the default position is that Roger is bad, and does bad things, just for the hell of it.
I'm like the Fu Manchu of PD.
Yes, sir! Sorry, sir!
*ahem*
ROGER WTF IS WRONG WITH YUO WHY DID YOU DO THAT AWFUL THING
I AM SO INCREDIBLY UPSET BY YOUR APPARENTLY UNJUSTIFIED DICKERY
BAAAAAAAW
...Is more correct, yes?
Something like that. :lulz:
I'm just having a giggle...I shall have to flow chart this. Something like:
PROBLEM OCCURS
Is Roger involved? ----> Yes ----> Roger is responsible
|
|
No
|
|
Is Roger online? ---> Yes ---> Roger is responsible
|
|
No
|
|
ZOMG! MIND LAZORS!
I have been invoking your presence all day.......
ZOMG MIND LAZORS! ROGER WTF
I know it's still your fault, even if it's the mind lazors.
I find it hard to believe that Cram typed the words "Discordia would be better off without Roger" or the similar. Considering he knows that Discordia is more than just PD. I also believe that he may have, out of frustration or monkey-emotions. I have no evidence either way. Fuck, I've said worse to my personal friends on occasion, before apologizing.
Cram has told me that 'taking a break' from PD wasn't about Roger, just about his personal situation and day-to-day stress levels building up IRL.
I have no clue what's going down currently. Hopefully Cram and Rog can communicate without any interference and clear this up, so I'll just butt the fuck out after this post until shit settles.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 09, 2011, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 09:09:56 PM
I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.
Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.
I dunno, I looked through both of his facebook accounts and the Discordian group and see nothing like it. So the rest of your point was he had a fight with Roger and was an asshole? Doesn't that describe all but 23% of PD.com? ;-)
Maybe there's something else I'm missing, but from my perspective, it seems pretty shitty and kinda disturbing. I'm pretty sure I've been far more of an asshole than Cram ever has....
Yeah, actually I just didn't think it was my place to bring up the thing between Cram and Roger (which I also did not know the full extent of until now), so I gave a secondary reason for being a dick. Sue me.
Roger, you know what is a little bizarre? If I tell you that I absolutely believe your motives are clean. They always are, always have been. I stuck up for Cramulus when you say he's shitting behind your back cause I know him and he doesn't believe that, and I stick up for you because I know you're a good guy, who will do the right thing when it really matters. And of course you're not a personality cult.
I know that, rationally. But that doesn't mean that somebody that I trust can't sometimes say something that IMO is really out of line and scares the shit out of me. And that's what I saw and called out upon.
What I saw at that moment was this.
I saw myself, and no matter how much I did for this board and its community, I could be in the exact same spot, if I ever left, and stuck my head in for a few posts and get publicly derided like that.
Because it's one thing if you were just having an unresolved beef with Cram, but I saw him sticking in his head for just a few posts and you made it look like whole PD has a reason to have a beef with him ("we're all boring!").
If I ever leave during an unresolved argument with one person, if I ever come back, even for a short time, I want to still have the argument with that one person, and not with the entire board.
And I could have explained that better the first time around. But that's what it felt like, hit me right in the gut.
As I said, I know I can trust you, but you know, even people that you trust can sometimes say shit that scares the piss out of you.
And about this screenshot, like Telarus, I'm having a really hard time believing Cramulus actually said that.
So you PMed him, and you say if he'd deny it, it would be okay. But he didn't reply. That's because he's sick and tired of arguing and decided he prefers not to get involved anymore even if it means you think he said horrible things he doesn't actually believe. I'm not going to defend that approach BTW, it's not something I would choose.
I'm also kind of wondering what kind of shit-stirring high-school-girl douche would send you such a screenshot. Considering that it could have been taken out of context, or just Cram blowing off steam in a way he didn't really mean, in a place he felt like it was safe to do so. Like, I can go to my friends and be all "Waaaaaaahhhhhh Mr. Language is such an asshole, I give and give and he doesn't appreciate it, he's a taker, I feel like he's using me" and yet, when all's said and done, I'm just having a private breakdown and what I would really say in my role as an adult is something completely different, and if someone were to screenshot my venting and send it to him, it could only be because they were trying to stir up trouble.
THIS WHOLE THING MAKES EOC A SAD.
CRAM IS GOOD. ROGER IS GOOD. PD IS GOOD.
WHY ARE NOT FRIENDS?
:cry: :cry:
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 10, 2011, 04:03:29 PM
Roger, you know what is a little bizarre? If I tell you that I absolutely believe your motives are clean. They always are, always have been. I stuck up for Cramulus when you say he's shitting behind your back cause I know him and he doesn't believe that, and I stick up for you because I know you're a good guy, who will do the right thing when it really matters. And of course you're not a personality cult.
I know that, rationally. But that doesn't mean that somebody that I trust can't sometimes say something that IMO is really out of line and scares the shit out of me. And that's what I saw and called out upon.
What I saw at that moment was this.
I saw myself, and no matter how much I did for this board and its community, I could be in the exact same spot, if I ever left, and stuck my head in for a few posts and get publicly derided like that.
Because it's one thing if you were just having an unresolved beef with Cram, but I saw him sticking in his head for just a few posts and you made it look like whole PD has a reason to have a beef with him ("we're all boring!").
If I ever leave during an unresolved argument with one person, if I ever come back, even for a short time, I want to still have the argument with that one person, and not with the entire board.
And I could have explained that better the first time around. But that's what it felt like, hit me right in the gut.
As I said, I know I can trust you, but you know, even people that you trust can sometimes say shit that scares the piss out of you.
And about this screenshot, like Telarus, I'm having a really hard time believing Cramulus actually said that.
So you PMed him, and you say if he'd deny it, it would be okay. But he didn't reply. That's because he's sick and tired of arguing and decided he prefers not to get involved anymore even if it means you think he said horrible things he doesn't actually believe. I'm not going to defend that approach BTW, it's not something I would choose.
Well, it seems that you've made up your mind.
Good day.
TGRR,
Leader of bad people.
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2011, 04:33:23 PM
I'm also kind of wondering what kind of shit-stirring high-school-girl douche would send you such a screenshot. Considering that it could have been taken out of context, or just Cram blowing off steam in a way he didn't really mean, in a place he felt like it was safe to do so. Like, I can go to my friends and be all "Waaaaaaahhhhhh Mr. Language is such an asshole, I give and give and he doesn't appreciate it, he's a taker, I feel like he's using me" and yet, when all's said and done, I'm just having a private breakdown and what I would really say in my role as an adult is something completely different, and if someone were to screenshot my venting and send it to him, it could only be because they were trying to stir up trouble.
That's entirely possible...No, LIKELY, given the person involved. It's also why I PM'd Cram, who chose not to respond, as he has chosen not to respond to any sort of PM he's ever been sent by me. I am told this is also my fault, but let's get past that...I don't particularly care for the person that sent it, nor would I believe this person over Cram, if Cram had a reasonable explanation, etc.
As far as other people saying shit about him, I cannot control that, no matter what some people here believe. It doesn't seem to have occurred to folks that he might have pissed off more people than just mean old Roger.
Quote from: Telarus on April 10, 2011, 07:12:18 AM
I find it hard to believe that Cram typed the words "Discordia would be better off without Roger" or the similar. Considering he knows that Discordia is more than just PD. I also believe that he may have, out of frustration or monkey-emotions. I have no evidence either way. Fuck, I've said worse to my personal friends on occasion, before apologizing.
Cram has told me that 'taking a break' from PD wasn't about Roger, just about his personal situation and day-to-day stress levels building up IRL.
I have no clue what's going down currently. Hopefully Cram and Rog can communicate without any interference and clear this up, so I'll just butt the fuck out after this post until shit settles.
1. I don't have a hard time believing that. Cram has disapproved of me for a very, very long time, and has told me so on several occasions.
2. Given the source, though, I was more than willing to give Cram the benefit of the doubt. So I asked him about it, in PM. I was not considered worthy of an answer.
3. I want to make this PERFECTLY FUCKING CLEAR: I have not organized some "welcoming party" for Cram. I chose to act like an ass when he returned, in my time-honored fashion, same as I would have greeted him if he'd been gone a day, and the same as I'll greet Fomentor when he eventually returns...But I did so on my own. Regardless of what anyone may think, Cram
might have pissed off more than just Roger.
4. I also want to make THIS perfectly clear, and I'm not going to say it ever again:
This isn't about Cram's flounce, in the slightest. If you or anyone else can't get that through your heads, then I really don't know what to say.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 10, 2011, 09:52:42 AM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 09, 2011, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 09, 2011, 09:09:56 PM
I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.
Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.
I dunno, I looked through both of his facebook accounts and the Discordian group and see nothing like it. So the rest of your point was he had a fight with Roger and was an asshole? Doesn't that describe all but 23% of PD.com? ;-)
Maybe there's something else I'm missing, but from my perspective, it seems pretty shitty and kinda disturbing. I'm pretty sure I've been far more of an asshole than Cram ever has....
Yeah, actually I just didn't think it was my place to bring up the thing between Cram and Roger (which I also did not know the full extent of until now), so I gave a secondary reason for being a dick. Sue me.
I am told, it seems, that me reacting to Cram saying he got bored means that I have cast a magickual spell on the board.
Or words to that effect.
I'm done arguing this. Minds have been made up, even though the argument (at least my argument) has nothing to do with the flounce.
Apparently, if you or I or anyone else gets mad at Cram for any reason, we're cultists or cult leaders.There's some HILARIOUS fucking irony there, but I'll leave it for people who care.
Quote from: RogerThat's entirely possible...No, LIKELY, given the person involved. It's also why I PM'd Cram, who chose not to respond, as he has chosen not to respond to any sort of PM he's ever been sent by me. I am told this is also my fault, but let's get past that...I don't particularly care for the person that sent it, nor would I believe this person over Cram, if Cram had a reasonable explanation, etc.
As far as other people saying shit about him, I cannot control that, no matter what some people here believe. It doesn't seem to have occurred to folks that he might have pissed off more people than just mean old Roger.
You're right about that BTW. At first I did address ECH and Khara as well, but later on only you. That wasn't fair.
As for Cram not replying, I said I won't defend that. And giving it some more thought, that does indeed also make it his problem.
QuoteI want to make this PERFECTLY FUCKING CLEAR: I have not organized some "welcoming party" for Cram.
Yes I realize that now. I wasn't aware of all the facts, thought I saw something that worried me and made a kneejerk response and freaked out, sorry about that.
I still don't believe he thinks Discordia would be better off without you, though. And I would like to ask you to consider that, even if he didn't respond to your PM. But that's just my opinion.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 10, 2011, 05:01:13 PM
I still don't believe he thinks Discordia would be better off without you, though. And I would like to ask you to consider that, even if he didn't respond to your PM. But that's just my opinion.
Oh, I have considered it. I've said so. In fact, if you look back a page or two, if Cram straight up tells me that he DIDN'T say that, then I will believe him, apologize to him, and do HORRIBLE shit to the person that sent me the screenshot...As they can be doctored and Cram is honest in most things.
Problem is, I don't think he will, because he is honest in most things, and because given our past, that is something Cram would be likely to say about me.
I used to like Cram, I used to admire him a great deal, in fact. But after enough snubs, after being told for years that I'm doing it wrong and cutting down the potential size of PD by being a prick, and that I'm too mean to noobs (on the same day he asked me to take down a thread because it might encourage poptard)...After a while, well, you just get to the point where you can't fucking stand a guy, you know?
Funny thing is, it ain't just him. His loyalists/friends lined up to jump on mine and ECH's (and a few others) heads for daring to call him a prick, and stating reasons that we never said. And then *I* get called a cult leader/a Scientologist, whatever. Now, that's funny on a level that would be infuriating as well, if I still gave a shit.
But I don't. I've been the automatic bad guy one time too often, and to anyone who knee-jerked me as a the bad guy...Well, what
can I say? WTF, you know? Okay, so I'm the universal bad guy. Let me know when to laugh menacingly, and when it's time to deliver the bad guy soliloquay. I shall endeavor to be the utter and complete shit that most of you believe me to be. If, you know, I'm not busy doing something.
Or Kill Me.
Really have no idea what is going on here, but I hope that Cram comes back. I like him and his content, even if I don't agree with some of it.
The idea of anyone being made out to be an aspiring cult leader with an ego the size of Kazakhstan because of something they said or did to fucking Cramulus fills me with rageful laughter.
I mean, there's your big shiny kettle, right there.
And whether or not he actually said what was supposedly in whatever screenshots were sent to Roger, I can goddamn guaran-fucking-tee that he has NO compunction at all about going around behind Roger's back trying to start trouble and get Roger "voted off the island", as it were.
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.
Do not ever fucking presume to speak for how I think or feel. I want to be very clear on this. I made one fucking post. I suggested he might want to read some of the awesome stuff we had going.
As for the rest, I was here when Cram pulled his I'm taking my toys and going to a new sandbox bullshit.
However, my issues with Cram go back much farther than that and if I want to be a fucking bitch I fucking will. I don't forget shit, I may be nice, but you jump all over me and think I'm going to let it go without a fucking apology, not going to happen. I'm a total cunt like that. You want to be Cram's mommy and come jump my ass go right ahead, I'll tell you the same thing I would tell him. Fuck you, you can kiss my ass!
You know, I don't think I realized how much of a polarizing figure Cram was. I know there have been core philosophical conflicts, but I must have assumed they were no different than any other argument we usually have.
I am thinking there's been a lot of shit I was blissfully unaware of.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 11, 2011, 04:48:34 PM
You know, I don't think I realized how much of a polarizing figure Cram was. I know there have been core philosophical conflicts, but I must have assumed they were no different than any other argument we usually have.
Cram was, in my opinion, my opposite pole in every way. The board is lacking something with him gone
1. But if you're going to advance a paradigm of Discordia - or anything else, really - you've got to be prepared to argue your position. By "argue", I don't necessarily mean shit-flinging, of course.
1 Despite my very real anger with Cram, and my new-found distaste for him, he DID contribute. I don't think too many people would disagree with that.
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 04:54:47 PM
I am thinking there's been a lot of shit I was blissfully unaware of.
Yeah, well, I wish I had some of that bliss.
But the fact is, I very much valued Cram's opinion, particularly with regard to rants or ideas I set forward. Then I noticed that he either didn't read it, or disapproved of it simply because I wrote it (He was more than happy to USE some of the same ideas he had earlier turned his nose up at, after all.). Then I found out that, in his mind, I was "the weakest link", and should probably go fuck off into the desert and die quietly, at least in a metaphorical sense.
So, yeah, not wild about the guy. I like a lot of his ideas, and I think he should post here (I am not going to pull a Lauren and say - as she said to me - "I like your stuff, but I think you should post it here without actually hanging around", etc.)...But that doesn't mean I have to like him. Outside of this thread, I have no intention of trash-talking him or monstering him or anything.
Should he return, I will simply ignore him in favor of his writing. Should he not, well, that's okay, too.
I know I in no way contribute in comparison to both Roger and Cram, but here is my thoughts on it.
I've been ignoring Cram and his posts and his threads for months now and will be perfectly happy to continue to do so if he decides to return.
He did post content and he had some great ideas.
I'm real good with live and let live.
I'm not comfortable with discussing his pros and cons when he simply isn't here.
I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.
To date the only comment I have seen PD related was to mention that he missed people, but he was trying hard to get a change of scenery.
If people want to bring this up when if he comes back thats a different story, but as of now not only is flogging a dead horse, the horse isn't even here any more.
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
I'm not comfortable with discussing his pros and cons when he simply isn't here.
I'd just as soon not have discussed it, either, but half a dozen people came on, attributing motives to me that weren't true.
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.
Nobody said he did. In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
If people want to bring this up when if he comes back thats a different story, but as of now not only is flogging a dead horse, the horse isn't even here any more.
See my first response in this post.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.
Nobody said he did. In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.
I did, actually, but I apparently got my beefs crossed up and attributed to Cram something that CU had done.
I'd like to see Cram come back and post here. There are more people here that like him than dislike him, and even the people who dislike him personally seem to appreciate the content he contributes here. I know I appreciate the content he contributes here, regardless of my personal opinion of the guy.
That said, if he can't take a little shit-flinging and accept that his actions are bound to have consequences in the social arena of PD.com then maybe 23ae is more his speed. I really don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about all of it.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 11, 2011, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.
Nobody said he did. In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.
I did, actually, but I apparently got my beefs crossed up and attributed to Cram something that CU had done.
I'd like to see Cram come back and post here. There are more people here that like him than dislike him, and even the people who dislike him personally seem to appreciate the content he contributes here. I know I appreciate the content he contributes here, regardless of my personal opinion of the guy.
That said, if he can't take a little shit-flinging and accept that his actions are bound to have consequences in the social arena of PD.com then maybe 23ae is more his speed. I really don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about all of it.
More to the point, being liked or disliked shouldn't really have anything to do with it.
You spew because you HAVE to spew, not so that people can make comments about what a great spew it was.
At least to my way of thinking.
I'd say that the single most important thing my time at PD.com has taught me is that to advance your personal agenda through the world in anything resembling an effective manner, you HAVE to be able to divorce your ego from your actions and their results.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on April 11, 2011, 06:49:23 PM
I'd say that the single most important thing my time at PD.com has taught me is that to advance your personal agenda through the world in anything resembling an effective manner, you HAVE to be able to divorce your ego from your actions and their results.
Yep. And you have to divorce your ego from your perceptions, or you'll never see The Truth.
This is where the Buddhists fucked up. You CAN'T have "no self", or you aren't a person, and The Truth is therefore useless.
But if you can train yourself to make your ego sit down and shut up for ten minutes, you can get somewhere. It's not easy, in fact it's not always POSSIBLE, but nobody said it had to be.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 04:55:21 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 11, 2011, 04:48:34 PM
You know, I don't think I realized how much of a polarizing figure Cram was. I know there have been core philosophical conflicts, but I must have assumed they were no different than any other argument we usually have.
Cram was, in my opinion, my opposite pole in every way. The board is lacking something with him gone.
^This is how I've always seen it.
Roger is a guy I'd trust my life with if it came down to a crazy situation where I had to depend on someone 8000km away (and one can never be too sure that that kind of crazy situation will never crop up these days). He's a man I'm honoured to call friend, even if it's an entirely internet based thing.
Cram is one of the reasons I stuck around long enough on PD for it to take hold, and holy shitfuckdamn we've had some awesomecrazy forum adventures. I see Cram on the regular on IRC, and I consider him to be a friend too.
But they're both undeniably
very different people, in style, substance, outlook... Every conceivable thing you can think of. And probably more polar opposite than any other two members of this fucked up little forum.
I dunno if this post has any real point, other than wanting to make a public statement of my incredibly high esteem for both parties.
I agree about Cram being a sort of opposite pole to Roger. A balance that it feels like the forum is now lacking.
I was away during his departure and I don't want to make any sort of comment or judgement about it really but I do hope that someone who is as eloquent and prolific as Cram will emerge as a counterpoint to Roger if Cram himself does not return. I think the board was richer for the dynamic.
Some of us (me) just got tired of being told all the time that we (me) was doing it wrong. "You're not nice enough" was the bullshit that finally pissed me off. "I want a bigger audience" was another one.
Fuck it. I wasn't even posting here anymore until the futuristic thread, and after this I will go back to only posting there.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 11, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
I agree about Cram being a sort of opposite pole to Roger. A balance that it feels like the forum is now lacking.
I was away during his departure and I don't want to make any sort of comment or judgement about it really but I do hope that someone who is as eloquent and prolific as Cram will emerge as a counterpoint to Roger if Cram himself does not return. I think the board was richer for the dynamic.
PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?
I wouldn't want it that way anyway.
And we don't need a counterpoint to Roger.
Roger can counterpoint Roger if need be. Just ask him to sing both Montserrat Caballés and Freddie Mercurys parts for
Barcelona at the same time, and you'll see what I mean.
Thing is, PD doesn't actually need ANY of us here, it just needs bipeds and opposable thumbs and the rest will sort itself out. Or it won't. But it'll be hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:42:38 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on April 11, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
I agree about Cram being a sort of opposite pole to Roger. A balance that it feels like the forum is now lacking.
I was away during his departure and I don't want to make any sort of comment or judgement about it really but I do hope that someone who is as eloquent and prolific as Cram will emerge as a counterpoint to Roger if Cram himself does not return. I think the board was richer for the dynamic.
PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?
I wouldn't want it that way anyway.
And we don't need a counterpoint to Roger. Roger can counterpoint Roger if need be. Just ask him to sing both Montserrat Caballés and Freddie Mercurys parts for Barcelona at the same time, and you'll see what I mean.
Thing is, PD doesn't actually need ANY of us here, it just needs bipeds and opposable thumbs and the rest will sort itself out. Or it won't. But it'll be hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.
Oh I know, it's a great board and will be with or without anyone being a "positive" influence. I just liked it.
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:42:38 PM
PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?
so...
you're saying that PD is like a wading through a pile of pins, and that you're bound to get a bunch of pricks?
Quote from: Iptuous on April 11, 2011, 07:52:09 PM
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:42:38 PM
PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?
so...
you're saying that PD is like a wading through a pile of pins, and that you're bound to get a bunch of pricks?
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Extreme Acupuncture!
It's a good job we are pretty on the ball as far as examining the dynamics that fly about in this place, as, and when they occur, or the whole forum could be thrown into some horrible, factional Cramulites vs Howlers Civil War scenario. This is our strength, and why we are at once, "The worst Forum on the Internet" and (To ourselves) "The best fucking rag tag Army of dissolute and diversely talented Hatespewing Bastards" there will ever be.
Quote from: Iptuous on April 11, 2011, 07:52:09 PM
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:42:38 PM
PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?
so...
you're saying that PD is like a wading through a pile of pins, and that you're bound to get a bunch of pricks?
Well I wasn't saying that, but I guess I was really. Deep down. Deeeeeeeeeeeep down. (Payne now removes his hand from his pance, for to continue typing)
I was actually thinking more about needles in haystacks. And how beautiful it would be if you could ever manage to balance all those pin heads against each other, but how inanly stupifyingly pointless it would be to actually attempt it.
Which is why it should be held aloft, as a Banner to confound those who would try to second guess our motives!
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:56:32 PM
I was actually thinking more about needles in haystacks. And how beautiful it would be if you could ever manage to balance all those pin heads against each other, but how inanly stupifyingly pointless it would be to actually attempt it.
"There's lots to do; we have a very busy schedule!"
(http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs022/Characters/trivium.png)
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:56:32 PM
I was actually thinking more about needles in haystacks. And how beautiful it would be if you could ever manage to balance all those pin heads against each other, but how inanly stupifyingly pointless it would be to actually attempt it.
Sometimes the pins balance on their own.
See: Nessie thread.
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 08:07:26 PM
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 07:56:32 PM
I was actually thinking more about needles in haystacks. And how beautiful it would be if you could ever manage to balance all those pin heads against each other, but how inanly stupifyingly pointless it would be to actually attempt it.
Sometimes the pins balance on their own.
See: Nessie thread.
That's not balance. That's everyone creativity pointing in roughly the same direction.
PD is not that hard on noobs, nor is it even that negative IMO. Go to any Pagan forum and you'll see some hierarchical bullshit where the noobs get shat on regardless of the quality of their posts. It's not like that here, plus we give out second, third, and fourth chances when someone blows it on their first. So, I've had it with the "We have to be nicer to noobs" shit. Not that anyone was saying that here, I'm just venting.
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 08:20:19 PM
plus we give out second, third, and fourth chances when someone blows it on their first.
Yo. :wave:
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 08:20:19 PM
PD is not that hard on noobs, nor is it even that negative IMO. Go to any Pagan forum and you'll see some hierarchical bullshit where the noobs get shat on regardless of the quality of their posts. It's not like that here, plus we give out second, third, and fourth chances when someone blows it on their first. So, I've had it with the "We have to be nicer to noobs" shit. Not that anyone was saying that here, I'm just venting.
Yeah, I've never bought the nicer to noobs thing much either.
Mostly, I think, cause I just sidled in here without anyone really noticing and never got shat on at all.
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 08:20:19 PM
PD is not that hard on noobs, nor is it even that negative IMO. Go to any Pagan forum and you'll see some hierarchical bullshit where the noobs get shat on regardless of the quality of their posts. It's not like that here, plus we give out second, third, and fourth chances when someone blows it on their first. So, I've had it with the "We have to be nicer to noobs" shit. Not that anyone was saying that here, I'm just venting.
Yeah, I've never bought the nicer to noobs thing much either.
Mostly, I think, cause I just sidled in here without anyone really noticing and never got shat on at all.
same here.
I don't think noobs get shat on any more than anyone else does. And I do think everyone tends to make an effort to keep from shitting on people until they have a chance to learn the board a little. I know that when I first got here I was given some leeway to realize that Pinealism is not only not expected, it's generally not appreciated at all. Nobody was mean to me about it although I expect they would have been if I hadn't figured it out.
I didn't have any trouble... but mostly I avoided shitting in anybody else's plate, myself. Felt right at home.
Quote from: Pixie on April 11, 2011, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: Payne on April 11, 2011, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 08:20:19 PM
PD is not that hard on noobs, nor is it even that negative IMO. Go to any Pagan forum and you'll see some hierarchical bullshit where the noobs get shat on regardless of the quality of their posts. It's not like that here, plus we give out second, third, and fourth chances when someone blows it on their first. So, I've had it with the "We have to be nicer to noobs" shit. Not that anyone was saying that here, I'm just venting.
Yeah, I've never bought the nicer to noobs thing much either.
Mostly, I think, cause I just sidled in here without anyone really noticing and never got shat on at all.
same here.
Same here. But us Brits are good at infiltrating.
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 08:41:16 PM
I didn't have any trouble... but mostly I avoided shitting in anybody else's plate, myself. Felt right at home.
You also avoided starting shit, pushing buttons, making baseless assertions, or acting whacky jsut for the sake of proving your pineal gland street cred. I may have missed a few but you started posting reasonable stuff, with content. Its really as simple as that.
Lots of folks come in thinking they have to make a stink of act zany to get established. Everyone's been there, the lucky or smart get this out of the way out of earshot of others.
Quote from: Richter on April 11, 2011, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 11, 2011, 08:41:16 PM
I didn't have any trouble... but mostly I avoided shitting in anybody else's plate, myself. Felt right at home.
You also avoided starting shit, pushing buttons, making baseless assertions, or acting whacky jsut for the sake of proving your pineal gland street cred. I may have missed a few but you started posting reasonable stuff, with content. Its really as simple as that.
Lots of folks come in thinking they have to make a stink of act zany to get established. Everyone's been there, the lucky or smart get this out of the way out of earshot of others.
Heck, come to think of it, I started off by politely disagreeing with Roger in my first half dozen posts. (I suspect "politely" was the operative word, here.)
Yeah, being polite has advantages. :lulz:
Phox,
Started out by pushing Roger and ECH's buttons for the hell of it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2011, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
I'm not comfortable with discussing his pros and cons when he simply isn't here.
I'd just as soon not have discussed it, either, but half a dozen people came on, attributing motives to me that weren't true.
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.
Nobody said he did. In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.
Quote from: Faust on April 11, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
If people want to bring this up when if he comes back thats a different story, but as of now not only is flogging a dead horse, the horse isn't even here any more.
See my first response in this post.
My comment wasn't directed at you, i'm hoping everyone will drop it.
Funny how the people who get along well here and contribute content don't get shat on, but the people who come in trolling do.
GOSH, IT'S JUST SO STRANGE AND UNEXPLAINABLE.
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Funny how the people who get along well here and contribute content don't get shat on, but the people who come in trolling do.
GOSH, IT'S JUST SO STRANGE AND UNEXPLAINABLE.
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on April 11, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Funny how the people who get along well here and contribute content don't get shat on, but the people who come in trolling do.
GOSH, IT'S JUST SO STRANGE AND UNEXPLAINABLE.
But the post that got Cram to speak up was a noob who used the word "crazy" in a post in a casual "I might be a little bit crazy" way, then got flamed out as much as someone who shows up as a self diagnosed aspie or some shit.
It was a bit on the ridiculous side, and in no way do I support a policy of niceness or anything to noobs. We just need to recognize that, yeah, sometimes people get shat on because of someone that came right before them, or because we're having a bad fucking day.Yeah I just plain didn't remember that correctly. My bad. Left for sake of honesty about my own stupidity.
You guys don't have to be nicer to noobs at all, people who receive shitstorms (me) completely deserved it, and it serves the purpose of getting rid of people who can't take it/ rectifying stupidity to an extent.
Quote from: pH on April 12, 2011, 03:54:33 AM
You guys don't have to be nicer to noobs at all, people who receive shitstorms (me) completely deserved it, and it serves the purpose of getting rid of people who can't take it/ rectifying stupidity to an extent.
Well, it's actually a bit simpler that that. You're a twat, and we treat you accordingly.
Because you wouldn't have it any other way.
I talked to Cram briefly after he flounced (before I returned) on Facebook, and he indicated it was much more about IRL Cram stuff than anything wrong with the people here. He also didn't say anything shitty about Roger that I can remember, or anyone else, and anything between him and anyone else is between all of them, as far I'm concerned. Both Roger and Cram have each individually been great friends to interact with, and each has also exposed me to a shitload of brilliant fantastic ideas, mostly their own. I'm glad this didn't blow up too much, at any rate. It wouldn't have been worth it for any parties.
Quote from: Vaud on May 14, 2011, 03:40:05 AM
I talked to Cram briefly after he flounced (before I returned) on Facebook, and he indicated it was much more about IRL Cram stuff than anything wrong with the people here. He also didn't say anything shitty about Roger that I can remember, or anyone else, and anything between him and anyone else is between all of them, as far I'm concerned. Both Roger and Cram have each individually been great friends to interact with, and each has also exposed me to a shitload of brilliant fantastic ideas, mostly their own. I'm glad this didn't blow up too much, at any rate. It wouldn't have been worth it for any parties.
Yeah, if I remember correctly he mentioned distancing himself from Discordia to try out new ideas. A perfectly reasonable move.