Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[Freeky]

Challenge my boundaries and see what happens.
Usually involves my dogs, flying chairs, or the cops. Whatever's handy.

I wouldn't go directly for your boundaries.  I'd get a great idea of what they are just by talking to you.  I'd probably challenge those ideas to get a better map of what ideas you believe AND what values you hold/prize.  By this point if i haven't disqualified you as a friend, i'd see if you hold the kind of values that would make an ideal sexual partner.  If you haven't disqualified yourself thus far AND i think you're attractive AND the mood's right i just might make a move on you. Or maybe not.

[Sita]

I just wanted to thank you ladies for this thread. Reading it has validated the feeling I've had about a certain event during my teen years.
It's also nice to know that I'm not really all that odd because I take some time before I feel comfortable with people. Seems my intuition might actually work after all.

[Pope Lecherous]

"it's your call your the one who overmedicated ".

I stopped replying after that, ever.

This guy sounds like he was acknowledging that it's best to defer to your judgment and/or preference in the form of a joke.  Did he have a pissy tone when he said that?  Did he actually put a smiley face there?  Kind of sounds like a joke to me.  Of course you would know better than i do and even if it was a joke and made you feel uncomfortable it's your prerogative to terminate the conversation. 

Did he have a reason to believe that the idea of "just talking" to someone overly medicated is something that triggers something unpleasant in you?  Something you maybe confided to him prior? Or was the tone of his texts already sexual and the combination (not unreasonably) freaked you out?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Challenge my boundaries and see what happens.
Usually involves my dogs, flying chairs, or the cops. Whatever's handy.

I wouldn't go directly for your boundaries.  I'd get a great idea of what they are just by talking to you.  I'd probably challenge those ideas to get a better map of what ideas you believe AND what values you hold/prize.  By this point if i haven't disqualified you as a friend, i'd see if you hold the kind of values that would make an ideal sexual partner.  If you haven't disqualified yourself thus far AND i think you're attractive AND the mood's right i just might make a move on you. Or maybe not.

  or

[Juana]

That's a beautiful gif, Texas. 

He's not going to read it, Pixie. He's not open to information that might conflict with the behavior and techniques he has already concluded are acceptable.

I have read the article.  I keep all of this in mind when i approach people.  Part of getting to know people is determining how safe they are.

When you approach me, I will begin to evaluate the possibility you will do me harm. That possibility is never 0%

^^Obviously true statement.  What does this mean to me?  It means that i get to know people and make them feel comfortable with me.  This is where the discussion about boundaries comes into play.  When you meet someone you set up impromptu barriers or have a set of barriers already in place for strangers.  Obviously you have different boundaries for strangers than you do close acquaintances or lovers.  People sometimes need time to feel safe on their own, you can also show them.  This is the equivalent being wary of petting some random dog you've never encountered.  A dog standing there, or a dog nuzzling your leg... if you choose to pet the latter and he bites you.  I guess you made a poor judgement and you will have paid for it.  Showing you are not scary is person or dangerous is easy.  It doesn't happen when you act like the guys the author cited.  This is THE primary barrier between living creatures.  There's nothing wrong with defeating this by demonstrating you are not a threat.  I always afford the person the opportunity to see that i am not a danger and likewise I don't want to be bit by someone who feels like they have been backed into a corner.

So if you speak to a woman who is otherwise occupied, you’re sending a subtle message. It is that your desire to interact trumps her right to be left alone.

A distinction has to be made here.  Do you speak to someone who's on the phone or "otherwise" occupied?  I don't.  Do you engage people socially in a social situation such as a party, club, or dinner party?   The typical expectation in this environment is that someone may attempt to engage you socially, unlike her subway example where the environment causes people to become vigilant or hyper-vigilant AND there is no reasonable expectation to be engaged socially.  In a lonely subway car I may let someone know that they've dropped something, but otherwise I wouldn't try to "pick someone up" in an environment like this.  It's nonsensical to assume somebody would unless they have no grasp at all of others' feelings and their environment.  Besides, in a subway i'm too focused on potential threats to be trying to bed someone.  In a club my mindset is different as would be a female's, but danger is ever present and i'm aware of this.  A girl (or man) can run off screaming if you try to approach them in a club, but i think even you guys can admit that's not a normal reaction.

If you pursue a conversation when she’s tried to cut it off, you send a message. It is that your desire to speak trumps her right to be left alone.

^^This is the very next sentence following the previous quote.  It is at this point her statement becomes 100% true, at least for me.

The rest of the article is gold.  No man could be successful with any PERSON much less a woman if he were unable to realize this unless, you know... he's a rapist.  The author has already conceded that i'm not. I wish you'd afford me this same courtesy, but i do realize that all men are, after all Schrödinger’s Rapist.

The author didn't take into account the sort of men who would undermine another person's boundaries when they felt it convenient.

I just wanted to thank you ladies for this thread. Reading it has validated the feeling I've had about a certain event during my teen years.
It's also nice to know that I'm not really all that odd because I take some time before I feel comfortable with people. Seems my intuition might actually work after all.

You're very welcome!


(edited for coding fail)

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

50 pages by next week, or I'll eat my mooncup.

Ok, well, maybe not that, that thing is expensive....

I just wanted to thank you ladies for this thread. Reading it has validated the feeling I've had about a certain event during my teen years.
It's also nice to know that I'm not really all that odd because I take some time before I feel comfortable with people. Seems my intuition might actually work after all.

THIS is why I didn't want a thread split on here.  That and it's the longest thread with me as the OP

[Pope Lecherous]

You don't have any idea what boundaries actually are. Personal boundaries are about what you are comfortable having done to yourself, not what you are comfortable with other people doing when it doesn't involve you personally. Those are totally different things.

You can replace that example with the difference in what the Asian culture views as personal space and what level of contact is acceptable and compare it to the American version.  A person moving from one culture to another can transition by adopting the ideas of the other culture and thus the same personal boundaries.

[East Coast Hustle]

Regardless of BF's 8 or so pages of refusing to understand why he's coming off as a creep, I think this thread has been hugely informative. Even for people like me who already view people as people and don't alter the respect accorded them based on what genitals they happen to have, there's always more to learn especially if you're on the privileged side of the gender divide. It's incredibly easy to overlook things because you're in a position of privilege even when you're aware that you're in that position.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

You don't have any idea what boundaries actually are. Personal boundaries are about what you are comfortable having done to yourself, not what you are comfortable with other people doing when it doesn't involve you personally. Those are totally different things.

You can replace that example with the difference in what the Asian culture views as personal space and what level of contact is acceptable and compare it to the American version.  A person moving from one culture to another can transition to adopt the ideas of the other culture and thus the same personal boundaries.

And Greeks and Italians are a "touchier" culture and you can accomodate that WHEN YOU REALIZE IT'S NONSEXUAL AND MEANINGLESS AND THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO FUCK WITH YOUR BOUNDARIES.

Not the same thing as "boundaries", dipshit.

[Freeky]

I just wanted to thank you ladies for this thread. Reading it has validated the feeling I've had about a certain event during my teen years.
It's also nice to know that I'm not really all that odd because I take some time before I feel comfortable with people. Seems my intuition might actually work after all.

Hey sita!

This thread is pretty awesome. I've always felt like there was something wrong with me that am always afraid of most men, strangers or not. It is good to know I'm not just crazy.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Regardless of BF's 8 or so pages of refusing to understand why he's coming off as a creep, I think this thread has been hugely informative. Even for people like me who already view people as people and don't alter the respect accorded them based on what genitals they happen to have, there's always more to learn especially if you're on the privileged side of the gender divide. It's incredibly easy to overlook things because you're in a position of privilege even when you're aware that you're in that position.

This surprises me. You always had "non-creepy" down pat. 

[Pope Lecherous]

I guess that challenging someone's personal boundaries and then respecting whatever decision they make is behavior that is fucked up and makes me a sociopath.  Of course some of you seem to believe it's not possible that i'm less afraid to connect with others than the average person, and some of you also think that i would FORCE someone to do this.  What holds me back is morality.  I firmly believe it's wrong to force people to do things, but influencing them is not wrong.

[Freeky]

Regardless of BF's 8 or so pages of refusing to understand why he's coming off as a creep, I think this thread has been hugely informative. Even for people like me who already view people as people and don't alter the respect accorded them based on what genitals they happen to have, there's always more to learn especially if you're on the privileged side of the gender divide. It's incredibly easy to overlook things because you're in a position of privilege even when you're aware that you're in that position.

It's a good, informative thread for everyone, except bf,  because for me at least, I A) realize that I'm not alone in this, and B) these things are justified by C) knowing the why of it all.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

You don't have any idea what boundaries actually are. Personal boundaries are about what you are comfortable having done to yourself, not what you are comfortable with other people doing when it doesn't involve you personally. Those are totally different things.

You can replace that example with the difference in what the Asian culture views as personal space and what level of contact is acceptable and compare it to the American version.  A person moving from one culture to another can transition to adopt the ideas of the other culture and thus the same personal boundaries.

Thing is, we are specifically looking at western culture, and personal boundaries within that. If you want to discuss other regional social mores I'd suggest you start a new thread, because in this case, it's falling into massive derail territory.

Regardless of BF's 8 or so pages of refusing to understand why he's coming off as a creep, I think this thread has been hugely informative. Even for people like me who already view people as people and don't alter the respect accorded them based on what genitals they happen to have, there's always more to learn especially if you're on the privileged side of the gender divide. It's incredibly easy to overlook things because you're in a position of privilege even when you're aware that you're in that position.

Cool! The thing is about being someone who has privilege, is that oftentimes people without it know more about how it works to be that person than the people who have it do about those without.

I'm also glad that I'm no longer a one liner and emoticons poster these days. HEY IT ONLY TOOK 3 YEARS!

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I just wanted to thank you ladies for this thread. Reading it has validated the feeling I've had about a certain event during my teen years.
It's also nice to know that I'm not really all that odd because I take some time before I feel comfortable with people. Seems my intuition might actually work after all.

Hey sita!

This thread is pretty awesome. I've always felt like there was something wrong with me that am always afraid of most men, strangers or not. It is good to know I'm not just crazy.

Nobody's "odd" or "has something wrong" because they realize that there's a faction of men out there who view them as prey.

TF
Likes guys. But is not a cottontail, dammit