Poll
Question:
What do you think is likely?
Option 1: They want us to think it was extremism
votes: 3
Option 2: It actualy is extremism
votes: 3
Option 3: It's the same people that were after Lord Omar.
votes: 4
Option 4: Its all obamas fault.
votes: 2
Option 5: It was just a bad acid trip!
votes: 2
Does anyone else have the news on? do you see the hype about the Ft. Hood shooting? My Inner chao is very curios if this is really as the media would have it seem or if this is all just some grayfaced conspiracy?
Could this be extremist grayface? Or perhaps the political grayfaces want you to think that its extremism. Or did that shrink really just loose his cool?
I would love to hear your thoughts, conspiracies, theories. what ever you fnording think.
From what I've googled, the Tea party is already lining up to take advantage of it.
QuoteA law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.
So... I predict the predictable bullshit will begin to fly predictably soon enough.
He was referred to as a mental health officer too, for all the horrormirthers out there.
Quote from: singer on November 06, 2009, 01:11:56 AM
QuoteA law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.
So... I predict the predictable bullshit will begin to fly predictably soon enough.
Sure enough...
Quote"He was making outlandish comments condemning our foreign policy and claimed Muslims had the right to rise up and attack Americans," Col Lee told Fox News.
"He said Muslims should stand up and fight the aggressor and that we should not be in the war in the first place." He said that Maj Hasan said he was "happy" when a US soldier was killed in an attack on a military recruitment centre in Arkansas in June. An American convert to Islam was accused of the shootings.
Col Lee said that other officers had told him that Maj Hasan had said "maybe people should strap bombs on themselves and go to Time Square" in New York.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6511591/Fort-Hood-shooting-Nidal-Malik-Hasan-said-Muslims-should-rise-up.html
Quick! How can we blame this on Obama???
\
:rush:
HE WUZ AN AY-RAB!
\
:mullet:
I didn't hear about this till I got to work. I feel bad for the families and the friends of those who were lost to this nutcase. I feel bad for the nutcases family also, because they will be facing a horrendous amount of media scrutiny. I feel bad for the military as a whole because the nutcase has set back Islamic/Military relations so much that Middle Easterners in the military should probably get out now as their careers will probably be hamstrung more than they might have been.
KopyKat: Honestly?
A soldier whose job it was to counsel PTSD victims, and who had Unfortunate Implications (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications) of a name snaps and goes on a killing spree, killing the very men he swore to protect, and the first thing that comes to your mind is "Greyface conspiracy"?
:crankey:
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 01:41:46 PM
KopyKat: Honestly?
A soldier whose job it was to counsel PTSD victims, and who had Unfortunate Implications (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications) of a name snaps and goes on a killing spree, killing the very men he swore to protect, and the first thing that comes to your mind is "Greyface conspiracy"?
:crankey:
:lulz:
So call me crazy
:lulz:
But personally, I love how Hasan died yesterday and then suddenly last night he was alive again! sounds like grayface magic to me.
Sounds to me like overzealous reporting.
So what, then, is the "conspiracy"?
Remember, Graud's achievement was for humans to take life too seriously, to focus on Order being the only "good", and the introduction of Sin and Guilt.
Underscoring latent racism and highlighting combat stress doesn't seem to acheive any of those goals.
If anything, it may be another instance of "Imposition of Order = Escalation of Disorder", which is not Greyfaced in the slightest.
That is, if you're going to reduce this into silly terms created by a dead hippie 50 years ago.
I suppose he's thinking of some kind of brainwashing "sleeper agent" MK ULTRA conspiracy thing?
I gotta admit it did come to mind to me as well, but I dont seriously believe it or anything. Not even sure if it's actually possible to "program" a human like that?
I'm wondering what purpose a friendly-fire assassin would serve.
Unless you're implying that the shooter was the sleeper agent of another country.
None of this is surprising, and given the Xtian bent in our military, it doesn't shock me at all that eventually someone would go apeshit and want to take a bunch of people down in this type of situation. I regret this guy had to get to this measure and took this way out of his self-imposed hell (I think he should have exited the military before he got this desperate). And it seems there were warning signs he was starting to lose it before he did this. Too bad the reputation the military has for not taking care of its own is showing itself to be all too true yet again.
I was just pondering that this whole ordeal was to stir up hatred and fear to impose order. I would hate to see innocent Middle eastern descended americans being interned because of the fear of another Hood.
Where the hell have you been for the last 8 years, anyway?
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 02:54:35 PM
I was just pondering that this whole ordeal was to stir up hatred and fear to impose order. I would hate to see innocent Middle eastern descended americans being interned because of the fear of another Hood.
On 9/12/01, I got about a dozen calls from people in my family begging me to not go out in public. Because I was married to an Afghan. They wanted me to also, some of them, take my children out of preschool.
These sentiments have died down, but not much.
LMNO's right: where HAS you been this whole decade?
A horrible place filled with hicks and bad media called Kentucky...
So then you know full well what kind of tunnel vision people can have. The military takes people out of the wild and puts them in specific tunnels and then tells them there's only one vision, and you stray from that point of view, and peole MAY DIE.
Quote from: Jenne on November 06, 2009, 03:03:55 PM
So then you know full well what kind of tunnel vision people can have. The military takes people out of the wild and puts them in specific tunnels and then tells them there's only one vision, and you stray from that point of view, and peole MAY DIE.
Xactly! then the dumb hicks get scared that people are gonna die cuz i dont follow the rules and then my ass gets lynched.
:fap:
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:29:46 PM
Quote from: Jenne on November 06, 2009, 03:03:55 PM
So then you know full well what kind of tunnel vision people can have. The military takes people out of the wild and puts them in specific tunnels and then tells them there's only one vision, and you stray from that point of view, and peole MAY DIE.
Xactly! then the dumb hicks get scared that people are gonna die cuz i dont follow the rules and then my ass gets lynched.
:fap:
K.
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
I think they're half-assed trolling, Rog. This last bit about a rope I'm just going to ignore.
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Looks like just another dumbshit.
Quote from: Jenne on November 06, 2009, 03:57:03 PM
I think they're half-assed trolling, Rog. This last bit about a rope I'm just going to ignore.
Yep. Of all people to accuse of that... :lulz:
What a dumbfuck.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Looks like just another dumbshit.
Both are totally possible. I'm too tired atm to care much, (un)fortunately.
I need a fucking nap.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:59:00 PM
Quote from: Jenne on November 06, 2009, 03:57:03 PM
I think they're half-assed trolling, Rog. This last bit about a rope I'm just going to ignore.
Yep. Of all people to accuse of that... :lulz:
What a dumbfuck.
Yeah, I shouldn't have bothered. Oh well.
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 06, 2009, 02:45:55 PM
I suppose he's thinking of some kind of brainwashing "sleeper agent" MK ULTRA conspiracy thing?
I gotta admit it did come to mind to me as well, but I dont seriously believe it or anything. Not even sure if it's actually possible to "program" a human like that?
Every attempt so far has not only failed, but reduced the test subject to a complete wreck, leaving them almost totally incapable of functioning in society.
Interestingly, many of the currently used torture techniques originally came to the attention of the CIA and military while attempting to create it's own Manchurian candidates in the late 50s, through programs like MK-Ultra. Sensory deprivation and the techniques outlined in the KUBARK manual are useless at creating the sort of "blank slate" CIA officers had hoped could be used to program a sleeper agent, but are incredibly useful in breaking someone's psyche in the hope it will shatter their resistance to more conventional questioning.
Just thought you might like to know that.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Looks like just another dumbshit.
awwww, gimme a break rog. Im still just a pup!
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Looks like just another dumbshit.
awwww, gimme a break rog. Im still just a pup!
Okay, here's a little advice: Do not confuse hyperactivity and a big, brainless mouth for Discordianism.
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Looks like just another dumbshit.
awwww, gimme a break rog. Im still just a pup!
yeah, and you just shit all over the carpet.
honestly, this is one of the milder treatments I've seen dished out to someone for such an asstarded collection of statements.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 06, 2009, 05:20:48 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 06, 2009, 03:57:23 PM
Looks like a chronic case of an over-active Pineal gland.
Looks like just another dumbshit.
awwww, gimme a break rog. Im still just a pup!
yeah, and you just shit all over the carpet.
honestly, this is one of the milder treatments I've seen dished out to someone for such an asstarded collection of statements.
I must be getting old.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He's from Kentucky. They are all this stupid thanks to years of inbreeding and bad moonshine.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He's from Kentucky. They are all this stupid thanks to years of inbreeding and bad moonshine.
That's part of Tennessee, isn't it?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He's from Kentucky. They are all this stupid thanks to years of inbreeding and bad moonshine.
That's part of Tennessee, isn't it?
Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virgina... it's all the same to me. Bunch of toothless inbreeders living in "hollers" and shooting randomly at anything that moves.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 07:15:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He's from Kentucky. They are all this stupid thanks to years of inbreeding and bad moonshine.
That's part of Tennessee, isn't it?
Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virgina... it's all the same to me. Bunch of toothless inbreeders living in "hollers" and shooting randomly at anything that moves.
So...
Tucson.
Everywhere is Tucson.
An *Another* shooting today in Orlando--1 dead, 7 also shot. I think people had shitty weekends or something. Jesus.
Quote from: Jenne on November 06, 2009, 07:31:10 PM
An *Another* shooting today in Orlando--1 dead, 7 also shot. I think people had shitty weekends or something. Jesus.
OOK OOK!
:monkeydance:
I was raised in Tennessee.
The majority of my family is from Tennessee and Kentucky.
I suggest the southern inbred slamming stop! We are not all inbred banjo playing toothless squeal like a pig for me rapists!
KopyKat SHUT THE FUCK UP you fucking idiot!
Quote from: Khara on November 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
I was raised in Tennessee.
I can type slower, if it will help.
:lol:
Murder/Suicide shooting in one of the Suburbs here yesterday as well...
Guns may not kill people, but they sure seem to make them feel unwell.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 06, 2009, 07:35:43 PM
Murder/Suicide shooting in one of the Suburbs here yesterday as well...
Guns may not kill people, but they sure seem to make them feel unwell.
Guns do not kill people. Seriously.
It's those damn
bullets.
CAN I GET IN ON THE SOUTH-BASHING NAO TOO?
\
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZMdFwon2pfg/SZQVT9EX7YI/AAAAAAAAIBg/X8XiGEGMkEQ/s400/state-flag-rhode-island.jpg)
Quote from: Suu on November 06, 2009, 07:38:51 PM
CAN I GET IN ON THE SOUTH-BASHING NAO TOO?
\
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZMdFwon2pfg/SZQVT9EX7YI/AAAAAAAAIBg/X8XiGEGMkEQ/s400/state-flag-rhode-island.jpg)
No, your genes positively REEK of Florida.
Yeah, I think the Florida gene has beaten the crap out of your Middle Long Island upbringing by now.
SHHH
DON'T SAY THAT
RHODE ISLAND WILL KNOW AND TELL VERMONT NOT TO HIRE ME EITHER
Quote from: Suu on November 06, 2009, 07:41:40 PM
SHHH
DON'T SAY THAT
RHODE ISLAND WILL KNOW AND TELL VERMONT NOT TO HIRE ME EITHER
Tell them that you're asking for cultural asylum.
Well, they DO let Quebecois work in Burlington...
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 07:15:06 PM
Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virgina... it's all the same to me. Bunch of toothless inbreeders living in "hollers" and shooting randomly at anything that moves.
Three pics from GIS for "tennessee redneck":
The last is particularly painful for my knoxvillian self.
(http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/redneck_mentor.jpg)
(http://osdir.com/ml/recreation.humor.sidesplitters/2006-06/jpgnUbBSg9J5b.jpg)
(http://bhnotes.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/orangecar-redneck2.jpg)
Yep. Sums up my state. :horrormirth:
Quote from: Khara on November 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
I was raised in Tennessee.
The majority of my family is from Tennessee and Kentucky.
I suggest the southern inbred slamming stop! We are not all inbred banjo playing toothless squeal like a pig for me rapists!
You're right, a good
half 95% are bible thumping fundies that like to dance around with snakes.
Believe in christ!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He's from Kentucky. They are all this stupid thanks to years of inbreeding and bad moonshine.
That's part of Tennessee, isn't it?
How dare you obnubilate us with those traitorous Yankees! :crankey:
Quote from: Khara on November 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
I was raised in Tennessee.
The majority of my family is from Tennessee and Kentucky.
I suggest the southern inbred slamming stop! We are not all inbred banjo playing toothless squeal like a pig for me rapists!
KopyKat SHUT THE FUCK UP you fucking idiot!
Dont worry Khara, They're just jealous because their states have all banned corporal punishment in school.
:lulz:
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: Khara on November 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
I was raised in Tennessee.
The majority of my family is from Tennessee and Kentucky.
I suggest the southern inbred slamming stop! We are not all inbred banjo playing toothless squeal like a pig for me rapists!
KopyKat SHUT THE FUCK UP you fucking idiot!
Dont worry Khara, They're just jealous because their states have all banned corporal punishment in school.
:lulz:
So? Doesn't seem to have helped you.
Quote from: Da6s on November 06, 2009, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: Khara on November 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
I was raised in Tennessee.
The majority of my family is from Tennessee and Kentucky.
I suggest the southern inbred slamming stop! We are not all inbred banjo playing toothless squeal like a pig for me rapists!
You're right, a good half 95% are bible thumping fundies that like to dance around with snakes.
Believe in christ!
You should have edited your post to say something intelligent or at least humorous you stupid fuck!
I edited because I took off the part where I say YO MOMMA!
re: the GIS, i notice the first fellow has 'got root?' on hi shirt which i presume means he's a computer geek.... interesting. and on the second pic, i am totally jealous of that fellow's Lahti.
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: Khara on November 06, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
I was raised in Tennessee.
The majority of my family is from Tennessee and Kentucky.
I suggest the southern inbred slamming stop! We are not all inbred banjo playing toothless squeal like a pig for me rapists!
KopyKat SHUT THE FUCK UP you fucking idiot!
Dont worry Khara, They're just jealous because their states have all banned corporal punishment in school.
:lulz:
I'm curious, which part of SHUT THE FUCK UP did you not get?
I used small one syllable words damn.....
Fucking monkeys get stupider every fucking year....
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 07:23:51 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 07:15:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 06, 2009, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 06, 2009, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
I bet you have a rope ready. :aaa:
What the fuck is wrong with you?
He's from Kentucky. They are all this stupid thanks to years of inbreeding and bad moonshine.
That's part of Tennessee, isn't it?
Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virgina... it's all the same to me. Bunch of toothless inbreeders living in "hollers" and shooting randomly at anything that moves.
So...
Tucson.
Everywhere is Tucson.
Of course, everybody knows that. That's why they made it the capital of Washington.
Oh just be happy im not from ohio.
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 10:30:42 PM
Oh just be happy im not from ohio.
Still staying classy, I see, Kat.
This one seems like a real charmer.
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 10:30:42 PM
Oh just be happy im not from ohio.
Tsk. Should have gone the easy route and bashed W'sconsen.
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 10:30:42 PM
Oh just be happy im not from ohio.
Oh, bad state to pick. Bad bad bad.
-Suu
Doesn't live in Ohio for a reason. That's cuz Fred will eat her.
Quote from: Iptuous on November 06, 2009, 10:18:50 PM
re: the GIS, i notice the first fellow has 'got root?' on hi shirt which i presume means he's a computer geek.... interesting.
You have made the mistake of assuming he is literate enough to read his shirt.
Quote from: Suu on November 07, 2009, 03:53:05 AM
Oh, bad state to pick. Bad bad bad.
-Suu
Doesn't live in Ohio for a reason. That's cuz Fred will eat her.
:lmnuendo:
Fox have started to be jerks, surprise!
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/11/06/fox_friends/index.html
QuoteIt was only a matter of time before the right-wing media really sunk their teeth into the fact that the alleged Fort Hood shooter was a Muslim and jumped to what, in their minds, could be the only logical conclusion: It's time to consider whether Muslims in the military should be subject to special screenings.
On "Fox and Friends" Friday morning, Brian Kilmeade cut right to the chase, asking Geraldo Rivera the following question:
QuoteDo you think it's time for the military to have special debriefings of Muslim army officers, civilians, of anybody enlisted, because if I'm gonna be deployed in a foxhole, if I'm gonna be sticking in an outpost, I gotta know that the guy next to me isn't gonna kill me?
(Video, via Media Matters, is below.)
To his credit, Geraldo initially backed away, instead discussing the value and achievements of Muslims in the military. For a moment, it seemed like some modicum of reason had crept in. That feeling didn't last long. Gretchen Carlson immediately shot back with the following question:
QuoteCould it be that the military—because our society, let's just face it, our society has become very politically correct—could it be that the military was also exercising political correctness, even though he had a poor performance report and even though he spoke openly about being a radical Muslim and had those supposed postings online, could it be that the military was exercising political correctness in not approaching him as seriously as they would have had he not been a Muslim?
At that point, Geraldo abandoned any brief flirtation with objectivity, and whole-heartedly agreed with the claim that the military was exercising undue political correctness. He then went on to scornfully describe the military as "basically civil servants in uniform" which, as a bureaucratic government agency, has (God forbid!) "human resources" and "procedures."
:walken:
Maybe Gretchen is on to something. maybe they knew and purposefully did nothing? What if the whole thing was a set up?
Not everything is a conspiracy.
....Angels destroyed the Twin Towers you know. Angels, from GOD. I saw it on the internet!
Quote from: Suu on November 07, 2009, 04:48:16 PM
Not everything is a conspiracy.
....Angels destroyed the Twin Towers you know. Angels, from GOD. I saw it on the internet!
Nuh uh! I read it was the aliens.
Oh just shut up.
You mean people still follow that rule?
It's not a rule. Just a suggestion that certainly doesn't always need to be followed.
Quote from: Iptuous on November 06, 2009, 10:18:50 PM
re: the GIS, i notice the first fellow has 'got root?' on hi shirt which i presume means he's a computer geek.... interesting. and on the second pic, i am totally jealous of that fellow's Lahti.
I suspect that first one is a bit staged.
Quote from: KopyKat253 on November 06, 2009, 10:30:42 PM
Oh just be happy im not from ohio.
Yeah, those people from Ohio suck.
But at least its got a rhythm and they don't use their teeth.
Quote from: Nigel on November 08, 2009, 01:28:15 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on November 06, 2009, 10:18:50 PM
re: the GIS, i notice the first fellow has 'got root?' on hi shirt which i presume means he's a computer geek.... interesting. and on the second pic, i am totally jealous of that fellow's Lahti.
I suspect that first one is a bit staged.
Maybe he pulls stumps for a living....
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip. While I usually enjoy the job that NPR does of reporting news both national and local, I had to turn it off when they started discussing shit that sounded very much like "is teh shooter an islamofascist TERRARIST?" I just can't deal with that shit. To me, it sounds like the guy had a total breakdown associated with being forced to aid those who are fighting against people he considers extended family. He just cracked, and yeah, talking with an iman known for radical leanings probably didn't help his mental state any, but that doesn't make him a terrorist in the same way that a postal worker that goes to work with a shotgun isn't a terrorist.
Is it just me, or is all news, even NPR, turning into FUCKING /FOX/?
Not so much FOX as Sensationalist. The night it happened, they were doing a live broadcast where I heard the following:
"As reporters, we know better than to guess at the motives of this attack before all facts are in. However, it seems the shooter was a radical muslim who may have written an inflammatory blog post praising suicide bombers." (emphasis mine).
So when does Glen Beck start his crusade to investigate every person in the military who is a Muslim?
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 03:15:45 PM
So when does Glen Beck start his crusade to investigate every person in the military who is a Muslim?
You think they aren't doing so already?
Oh sure, I'm just wondering when it starts happening in the court of public opinion. That is, when it is spear headed by someone who makes his living on shaping public opinion.
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 03:57:10 PM
Oh sure, I'm just wondering when it starts happening in the court of public opinion. That is, when it is spear headed by someone who makes his living on shaping public opinion.
I think it might be shut down on a public level, I don't think they want us to kow how much they really do invade our privacy... yanno?
It's being started by the "masses" who've been calling in to these talk shows.
Oh, there was also some dumbfuck congresswoman. Lemme see if I can find--
Ah, yes.
http://www.suemyrick.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6229
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
Quote from: LMNO on November 11, 2009, 04:10:55 PM
It's being started by the "masses" who've been calling in to these talk shows.
Oh, there was also some dumbfuck congresswoman. Lemme see if I can find--
Ah, yes.
http://www.suemyrick.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6229
She's an outstanding American. Someone should give her an award or something.
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
That's what I've been trying to tell people. He was a uniformed soldier shooting (mostly) other uniformed soldiers. That's an act of war, not terrorism.
What worries me is that the feds apparently intercepted a series* of messages (concerning some research or other Hasan was doing) between Hasan and this al-Awlaki guy. What
really worries me is that according to the news, we're supposed to be complaining that nobody did anything about him having "ties" to a radical religious group, and not that the messages were intercepted in the first place. Last time I checked, we ostensibly still had freedom of religion and association - I get the feeling that this will be used to justify more warrantless spying on citizens.
*I understand intercepting the first one, as al-Awlaki was the subject of an investigation. But they kept intercepting his communications, "just in case."
Quote from: CNN (http://"http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/09/fort.hood.shootings/index.html)Three senior investigative officials, who insisted they not be identified by name because of the sensitive nature of the ongoing federal investigation, told reporters in Washington that Hasan was never nominated to be on a watch list. He was able to purchase weapons legally and had done nothing to justify even a preliminary investigation, they said.
In addition, Hasan had a security clearance at the "secret" level and received good performance reviews, they said. Nonetheless, they continued to examine his communications with the cleric in Yemen for several months as a precaution.
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
Quiet, you! with your insistence on consistency of definition!
the words mean what they mean for them to mean; nothing more, and nothing less!
(this reminds me of how NPR continuously referred to the fellow that tried to blow up one of our Dallas skyscrapers a couple months ago as using a 'weapon of mass destruction' when talking about a car bomb.... that really rubbed me wrong)
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
I dunno... shooting a room full of unarmed men that believe you to be on their side... at home, while they're filling out paperwork.... that's not exactly opposing armies. The real questions is will the act cause Terror among civilians... and among the military. I heard an interview with an active duty soldier last night. She said that she doesn't think every Muslim soldier is a threat, but she will now consider the possibility every time she is stationed with one... "Case by case basis" she said... "but, you know, I have to suspect that some of them might..."
Getting the armed forces to lose trust in each other is a pretty good "terrorist" result. turning the teaming masses of Americans into "OMGZ TEH MOSLEMS ARE IN OUR MILITARY, SHOOTIN OUR DUDES" lolcivilians is a pretty good result for 'terror' as well.
And as far as I know, the Military are not equally protected in their private conversations, the way civilians are. In the case of Hasan, the report claimed that the FBI came across him, while investigating the Imam.
Only time will tell if this guy was just crazy, or crazy and indoctrinated with very bad Dogma (as opposed to bad Dogma which mostl religious people seem infected with, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or Pagan).
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 11, 2009, 04:10:55 PM
It's being started by the "masses" who've been calling in to these talk shows.
Oh, there was also some dumbfuck congresswoman. Lemme see if I can find--
Ah, yes.
http://www.suemyrick.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6229
She's an outstanding American. Someone should give her an award or something.
Quote
Myrick's 10-point plan
1. Investigate all military chaplains endorsed by Abdurahman Alamoudi, who was imprisoned for funding a terrorist organization.
2. Investigate all prison chaplains endorsed by Alamoudi.
3. Investigate the selection process of Arabic translators working for the Pentagon and FBI.
4. Examine the nonprofit status of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
5. Make it an act of sedition or solicitation of treason to preach or publish materials that call for the deaths of Americans.
6. Audit sovereign wealth funds in the United States.
7. Cancel scholarship student visa program with Saudi Arabia until they reform their text books, which she claims preach hatred and violence against non-Muslims.
8. Restrict religious visas for imams who come from countries that don't allow reciprocal visits by non-Muslim clergy.
9. Cancel contracts to train Saudi police and security in U.S. counterterrorism tactics.
10. Block the sale of sensitive military munitions to Saudi Arabia
#1, 2 - Somebody we don't like liking you is probable cause that you're a terrorist.
#3 - We're not having a hard enough time as it is finding Arabic translators
#4 - Politically/religiously motivated ignorance and hatred must first destroy groups that preach knowledge and tolerance!
#5 - Jail everyone who ever expressed support for the death penalty.
#7 - Fuck over students (our country's and their country's) because of something they have no control over.
#8 - ???
#9, 10 - Make
sure that when we go to war against Iran, Saudi Arabia is on their side.
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
I dunno... shooting a room full of unarmed men that believe you to be on their side... at home, while they're filling out paperwork.... that's not exactly opposing armies. The real questions is will the act cause Terror among civilians... and among the military. I heard an interview with an active duty soldier last night. She said that she doesn't think every Muslim soldier is a threat, but she will now consider the possibility every time she is stationed with one... "Case by case basis" she said... "but, you know, I have to suspect that some of them might..."
Getting the armed forces to lose trust in each other is a pretty good "terrorist" result. turning the teaming masses of Americans into "OMGZ TEH MOSLEMS ARE IN OUR MILITARY, SHOOTIN OUR DUDES" lolcivilians is a pretty good result for 'terror' as well.
And as far as I know, the Military are not equally protected in their private conversations, the way civilians are. In the case of Hasan, the report claimed that the FBI came across him, while investigating the Imam.
Only time will tell if this guy was just crazy, or crazy and indoctrinated with very bad Dogma (as opposed to bad Dogma which mostl religious people seem infected with, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or Pagan).
An opposing army is an opposing army regardless of what they're doing. When Japan dropped bombs all over a military base that wasn't really doing much, we called that an act of war. The loss of trust that you describe is a good result for a PsyOps operation in general, although only if they
wanted increased discrimination and violence against Muslims and anybody who could be mistaken for one by an idiot with a baseball bat.
With regards to the military not getting the same protections in conversation - I guess that makes sense, but I still think this will be used to justify more encroachment on the civil rights of ordinary citizens.
Quote from: GA on November 11, 2009, 05:01:44 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
I dunno... shooting a room full of unarmed men that believe you to be on their side... at home, while they're filling out paperwork.... that's not exactly opposing armies. The real questions is will the act cause Terror among civilians... and among the military. I heard an interview with an active duty soldier last night. She said that she doesn't think every Muslim soldier is a threat, but she will now consider the possibility every time she is stationed with one... "Case by case basis" she said... "but, you know, I have to suspect that some of them might..."
Getting the armed forces to lose trust in each other is a pretty good "terrorist" result. turning the teaming masses of Americans into "OMGZ TEH MOSLEMS ARE IN OUR MILITARY, SHOOTIN OUR DUDES" lolcivilians is a pretty good result for 'terror' as well.
And as far as I know, the Military are not equally protected in their private conversations, the way civilians are. In the case of Hasan, the report claimed that the FBI came across him, while investigating the Imam.
Only time will tell if this guy was just crazy, or crazy and indoctrinated with very bad Dogma (as opposed to bad Dogma which mostl religious people seem infected with, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or Pagan).
An opposing army is an opposing army regardless of what they're doing. When Japan dropped bombs all over a military base that wasn't really doing much, we called that an act of war. The loss of trust that you describe is a good result for a PsyOps operation in general, although only if they wanted increased discrimination and violence against Muslims and anybody who could be mistaken for one by an idiot with a baseball bat.
With regards to the military not getting the same protections in conversation - I guess that makes sense, but I still think this will be used to justify more encroachment on the civil rights of ordinary citizens.
I think the rules say an opposing army is an opposing army if they're wearing a different outfit... you know, cause everyone follows the rules when it comes to war... except... well anyone that actually fights in a war.
However... in this case, I think either:
A) He lost his marbles and this is a tragic act of Crazy
B) He somehow became indoctrinated with an extremist viewpoint and it could be considered either Terrorism or Treason or an act of war... committed by a lone individual.
C) He somehow became indoctrinated with an extremist viewpoint and collaborated with other extremists. In which case it would probably be terrorism and treason and an act of war... and a conspiracy.
I don't want to label it an act of war, because the only defining factor that would make him part of the "other army" is his religion... which suddenly means the enemy is the religion, rather than a pack of crazy extremists that are just running around blowing shit up and causing general chaos.
My personal opinion is that it was a tragic act of crazy. I'm actually surprised we don't see more of this sort of thing.
So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?
More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?
Quote from: LMNO on November 11, 2009, 05:47:26 PM
So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?
More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?
Not the point, LMNO. Point is, it's the beginning of a century, so we HAVE to have a big conflict. The monkeys want an excuse to fight and howl and beat their chests. Logic and reason have nothing whatsoever to do with this, and we're not going to be happy until we kill 55+ million monkeys. It's on rails, LMNO, and there's nothing you or I can do about it.
Quote from: LMNO on November 11, 2009, 05:47:26 PM
So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?
More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?
Well... I wouldn't classify this as a Friendly Fire freakout... Friendly Fire means it was an accident.
However, you're spot on with the Oklahoma City bit.
And fuck TGRR, that's a scary good point as well.
Quote from: LMNO on November 11, 2009, 05:47:26 PM
So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?
More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?
but there were claims that he shouted 'alahu akbar' at the incident (whether or not he did, i dunno)
did anybody claim that Timmy shouted, 'Praise Jeebus' when he hit the button?
Iptuous,
hasn't actually dug into this story or anything...
They were both delusional crazy fucks who may or may not have been clouded by their religion, but in the end, were two delusional crazy fucks. It wasn't their fucked up religion, it was their fucked up brains. There are plenty of idiots who run around this rock with insane, irrational views of the world and religion. Yet, most of them are able to contain that and NOT shoot people. All this jabbering about religion in the media is bullshit. It doesn't matter. It's just conflating what seems to be an obvious case of a guy who just plain went mouth-frothing nuts and decided the only way to make his brain feel better was to shoot up some people.
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 06:33:36 PM
, most of them are able to contain that and NOT shoot people.
Except for twice a century or so, when EVERYONE gets in on the act.
Quote from: R W H N on November 11, 2009, 06:33:36 PM
They were both delusional crazy fucks who may or may not have been clouded by their religion, but in the end, were two delusional crazy fucks. It wasn't their fucked up religion, it was their fucked up brains. There are plenty of idiots who run around this rock with insane, irrational views of the world and religion. Yet, most of them are able to contain that and NOT shoot people. All this jabbering about religion in the media is bullshit. It doesn't matter. It's just conflating what seems to be an obvious case of a guy who just plain went mouth-frothing nuts and decided the only way to make his brain feel better was to shoot up some people.
hrmmm....
But surely there are different levels of Dogma... the Dogma of Fred Phelps is not the same as the dogma of the local Methodist church. They may both have dogma which provides them with insane irrational religious views... but the Phelps dogma seems more likely to leave shrapnel and ruts which could push someone in the direction of mass murder, shooting abortion doctors etc.
The same seems true in Islam. Anyone that chooses to believe the religion is likely gonna have some silly and irrational beliefs.... but the ones that are interacting with the more extreme interpretations of Islam seem to be getting shrapnel and ruts that are aiming them in a bad direction.
A straight up crazy person could open fire in a building full of other humans. I don't think its gonna do any good to focus on the religion as the cause... but if (and who knows right now) IF he was indoctrinated with extreme views, then we have to consider that those views may have impacted his decisions. He's still a crazy monkey that shot other monkeys... but bad Dogma is bad.
Remember how everyone was upset that George Tiller's murderer had been a FOX news freak an O'RLY fan and a dittohead? Sure the freak was responsible for his own horrific actions, but the shrapnel and paths were surely affected by the dogma he was indoctrinated with.
Hate is hate and preaching hate, be it from a Pastor, Imam or TV Personality does seem to impact the behavior of some humans. Their fucked up brains made it possible, but the Dogma surely helped push them along...
Of course, Hasan is still an unknown, we will have to wait and see if he was indoctrinated with extreme dogmatic views, or if he just lost his shit after dealing with years of broken and busted comrades.
Maybe the sort of people who join religious communities with insane irrational religious views do so because they are insane and irrational*.
It's tautological.
*Clarifying that all humans are irrational.
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 06:55:06 PM
Maybe the sort of people who join religious communities with insane irrational religious views do so because they are insane and irrational*.
It's tautological.
*Clarifying that all humans are irrational.
That seems quite plausible... or at least they had some experiences in the past which led to them viewing insane irrational religious views as good/normal/sane/rational.
I suppose that I keep harping on religious views affecting people, because that's what I experienced myself. It is still stunning to look back at my previous life and see what I thought was "normal". I suppose I should equate my experiences with guys like Hasan, but IF he was crazy and influenced by crazy dogmatic beliefs, I feel more sorry for him than if he is just crazy. That's probably not very rational.
Quoteall humans are irrational
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 07:09:59 PM
Quoteall humans are irrational
But amusing when they do it in large groups. :)
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 07:09:59 PM
Quoteall humans are irrational
Wait, are you calling me a human?! :argh!:
:wink:
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
This. When Memnoch at MW started quoting NPR, I stopped taking it seriously.
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
Depends. Most US commentators with legal expertise say it's not, and I would agree with the conclusion, if not with the reasoning behind it (their reasoning is that soldiers cannot be victims of terrorism because they're soldiers, my viewpoint is that they're not victims of terrorism because they were the intended targets - there was no third target who the shooter was trying to intimidate by killing the soldiers).
IMO, soldiers not on front line duty can be victims of terrorism as much as anyone else, if the attack is done with intent to threaten a third party.
Quote from: LMNO on November 11, 2009, 05:47:26 PM
So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?
As I recall, Fox News blamed Arabs.
Charlie Gibson still believes the Iraqi intelligence services were behind it (there is a less crazy version of this conspiracy theory, but it is not very interesting).
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 11, 2009, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
This. When Memnoch at MW started quoting NPR, I stopped taking it seriously.
I still remember when he quoted Michelle Malkin. That was seriously funny.
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:56:43 PM
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
Depends. Most US commentators with legal expertise say it's not, and I would agree with the conclusion, if not with the reasoning behind it (their reasoning is that soldiers cannot be victims of terrorism because they're soldiers, my viewpoint is that they're not victims of terrorism because they were the intended targets - there was no third target who the shooter was trying to intimidate by killing the soldiers).
IMO, soldiers not on front line duty can be victims of terrorism as much as anyone else, if the attack is done with intent to threaten a third party.
THIS.
I don't think we'll know until Hasan tells people why he did what he did. If he just decided to kill people, its not terrorism... but if he was trying to influence the stance on Afghanistan/Iraq or if he was hoping to scare people from joining the military or if he was hoping to scare the average American because "OMGZ IT COULD HAPPEN RIGHT HERE!!!" then it might be terrorism.
The evidence leans towards it being more an incident of mass murder than anything else, at the moment (the psychology of a mass murderer does differ significantly from that of a terrorist, despite terrorism often involving mass murder, so the distinction is a valid one).
I'd like to know exactly who he targeted, and his relationships with them. That would provide a ton of insight into his motivations. Also the events of that day and the day before would be necessary. And the level of planning, too.
It is the military people. You can't have crazy people in the military. They have all those tests and such to make sure there aren't any crazy people in the military. Hell they have a special discharge for crazy people.
So now, they've let a crazy person in.... and worse...... OMG..... gotten caught with their psychological pants down...
OH NOES what excuse can we come up with for his insane act? Oh yes...... He's a terrorist..... Then everyone gets all scared and shit.
This fucking idiot went postal for whatever reason. Only you can't call it that when you are the one who gave him the fucking gun!
Quote from: Khara on November 11, 2009, 08:28:47 PM
You can't have crazy people in the military.
Has anyone told the military this?
Quote from: Khara on November 11, 2009, 08:28:47 PM
It is the military people. You can't have crazy people in the military. They have all those tests and such to make sure there aren't any crazy people in the military. Hell they have a special discharge for crazy people.
So now, they've let a crazy person in.... and worse...... OMG..... gotten caught with their psychological pants down...
OH NOES what excuse can we come up with for his insane act? Oh yes...... He's a terrorist..... Then everyone gets all scared and shit.
This fucking idiot went postal for whatever reason. Only you can't call it that when you are the one who gave him the fucking gun!
I don't think those were military issue guns...
but the point remains, he could just be a guy gone postal and the military is trying to pass it off as terrorism. I hadn't considered that angle yet.
Quote from: Khara on November 11, 2009, 08:28:47 PM
It is the military people. You can't have crazy people in the military. They have all those tests and such to make sure there aren't any crazy people in the military. Hell they have a special discharge for crazy people.
So now, they've let a crazy person in.... and worse...... OMG..... gotten caught with their psychological pants down...
OH NOES what excuse can we come up with for his insane act? Oh yes...... He's a terrorist..... Then everyone gets all scared and shit.
This fucking idiot went postal for whatever reason. Only you can't call it that when you are the one who gave him the fucking gun!
i think he was a psychiatrist, the crazy person in charge of helping the army deal with solders going crazy went crazy :omg: :omg:
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 08:35:32 PM
I don't think those were military issue guns...
No. he used an FN 5.7, which i saw described in one news article as "a favorite of the Mexican Drug Cartels", and in another as, "a favorite of SWAT teams", and in yet another as a "Cop Killer" gun..... :roll:
It's also a favorite of harmless mall ninjas. I use mine for killing paper.
he also used a S&W .357 revolver, but that's not as dramatic...
:lulz: i heard some of those descriptions as well, i hate when they do that :argh!:
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
I guess I don't have any news to go to except PD.com then anymore. :sad:
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
I guess I don't have any news to go to except PD.com then anymore. :sad:
Out of the options we have NPR seems the least bad...
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:56:54 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
I guess I don't have any news to go to except PD.com then anymore. :sad:
Out of the options we have NPR seems the least bad...
I get sick of the bullshit, Rat. You know what I mean, the sort of brain melting stupidity that can be heard from any newscast. The voices burn my ears with the steady weird emphasis meant to convey emotion and excitement but still spoken in an underlying emotionless voice. They're all the same rat, just try this: tune in to any newscast, radio or television, and listen to the voices. They all sound EXACTLY THE SAME, the same meter, the same emphasis, never mind what they're talking about even though that is almost homogeneous as well. And those eyes, those EYES and the faces, all smiling. The teleprompters could be feeding them gibberish and it would sound exactly the same. It's driving me mad, Rat.
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 10:03:51 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 09:56:54 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 11, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 01:36:48 AM
I was listening to NPR today while returning from my collecting trip
On certain well known liberal blogs, NPR has been referred to as "even liberal NPR" for about two years now, due to to its willingness to treat nutjob talking points from the far-right with the same merit as more nuanced and considered positions.
I guess I don't have any news to go to except PD.com then anymore. :sad:
Out of the options we have NPR seems the least bad...
I get sick of the bullshit, Rat. You know what I mean, the sort of brain melting stupidity that can be heard from any newscast. The voices burn my ears with the steady weird emphasis meant to convey emotion and excitement but still spoken in an underlying emotionless voice. They're all the same rat, just try this: tune in to any newscast, radio or television, and listen to the voices. They all sound EXACTLY THE SAME, the same meter, the same emphasis, never mind what they're talking about even though that is almost homogeneous as well. And those eyes, those EYES and the faces, all smiling. The teleprompters could be feeding them gibberish and it would sound exactly the same. It's driving me mad, Rat.
Having learned to speak that way when I was in school for Broadcasting, I totally know what your talking about.
On the up side, I no longer speak like a half-literate yokel. On the other hand, I was pretty damn close to being one of those disembodied voices.... :x
:x
Quote from: Kai on November 11, 2009, 10:16:40 PM
:x
Not only that, but I can still do it...
it does make me feel a little dirty though.
"The News" - Jack Johnson
A billion people died on the news tonight
But not so many cried at the terrible sight
Well mama said
It's just make believe
You can't believe everything you see
So baby close your eyes to the lullabies
On the news tonight
Who's the one to decide that it would be alright
To put the music behind the news tonight
Well mama said
You can't believe everything you hear
The diagetic world is so unclear
So baby close your ears
On the news tonight
On the news tonight
The unobtrusive tones on the news tonight
And mama said
Why don't the newscasters cry when they read about people who die?
At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eyes
Mama said
It's just make believe
You cant believe everything you see
So baby close your eyes to the lullabies
On the news tonight
Quote from: GA on November 11, 2009, 05:01:44 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: Squid on November 11, 2009, 04:27:14 PM
slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?
I dunno... shooting a room full of unarmed men that believe you to be on their side... at home, while they're filling out paperwork.... that's not exactly opposing armies. The real questions is will the act cause Terror among civilians... and among the military. I heard an interview with an active duty soldier last night. She said that she doesn't think every Muslim soldier is a threat, but she will now consider the possibility every time she is stationed with one... "Case by case basis" she said... "but, you know, I have to suspect that some of them might..."
Getting the armed forces to lose trust in each other is a pretty good "terrorist" result. turning the teaming masses of Americans into "OMGZ TEH MOSLEMS ARE IN OUR MILITARY, SHOOTIN OUR DUDES" lolcivilians is a pretty good result for 'terror' as well.
And as far as I know, the Military are not equally protected in their private conversations, the way civilians are. In the case of Hasan, the report claimed that the FBI came across him, while investigating the Imam.
Only time will tell if this guy was just crazy, or crazy and indoctrinated with very bad Dogma (as opposed to bad Dogma which mostl religious people seem infected with, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or Pagan).
An opposing army is an opposing army regardless of what they're doing. When Japan dropped bombs all over a military base that wasn't really doing much, we called that an act of war. The loss of trust that you describe is a good result for a PsyOps operation in general, although only if they wanted increased discrimination and violence against Muslims and anybody who could be mistaken for one by an idiot with a baseball bat.
With regards to the military not getting the same protections in conversation - I guess that makes sense, but I still think this will be used to justify more encroachment on the civil rights of ordinary citizens.
Actually our government and enraged folks with baseball bats acting out against Muslims is a big part of what Al-Queda wants, may not be true of all radical Muslim organizatons. The worse we are treating Muslims the more sympathetic they are going to be to Al-Queda and others proclaiming that we have declared war not just on their organization but on Islam as a whole.
You're both right:
QuoteWhen war starts, there is of course a kind of rupture in the international order, but power relations which cross the battle lines do not disappear entirely. Thus, we can see a certain kind of cooperation and mutuality between sides in even "total" conflicts. A war has a certain kind of semi-stable existence, which allows its incorporation into strategies of power, in which the war is presupposed in the strategic configuration of power relations on both sides of the battle lines, and in which a certain dynamic operates between the foes as the contest with one another for domination, just as individuals or groups do within society in peacetime. War is no more unidirectional than any other modality of power relations (it could not be, since the two are bound together): within the victor's camp there has always been vying for position, strategy, alliance, and also within the defeated people. Hence alliances, implicit or explicit, across the lines of battle between mutually supportive tendencies in the other camp have always existed too: the Allies wanted the plotters against Hitler to succeed and, even if the two groups were not in direct communication, the Allies formed an essential component of the renegades' plot to kill Hitler and rescue Germany, the Allies hoping to incite just such treachery within the ranks of the enemy.
The Political Philosophy of Michel Foucault, Mark G. E. Kelly, page 51-52The biggest adherents of the "clash of the civilizations" are both globally aiming
takfiri terrorist groups, such as Al-Qaeda, and elements within the US national security state, and both benefit from such a theory, as it forces their potential enemies to otherwise support them against a dangerous and implacable foe, justifies their actions and increases their power base.
Quote from: pollWhat do you think is likely?
They want us to think it was extremism - 2 (16.7%)
It actualy is extremism - 3 (25%)
It's the same people that were after Lord Omar. - 4 (33.3%)
Its all obamas fault. - 2 (16.7%)
It was just a bad acid trip! - 1 (8.3%)
I hope you wake up with fetid shit in your bed if these are the only options you could come up with.
Yes. I ended my fucking sentence with a proposition. Deal with it.
Just a reminder from Jeff Shartlet:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/6/the_crusade_for_a_christian_military
Quote"Well, after about a year of interviewing military personnel, this was, in some ways, the most frightening story that I encountered. A man named Staff Sergeant Jeffery Humphrey, one of the very few soldiers who, in this military climate, had the courage to come forward and speak out about what he had seen, he had been stationed in Samarra. It was Easter. The day began calmly. A chaplain brought around a copy of Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic film 'Passion of the Christ,' which they then put on constant play throughout the day.
"When they came under attack, the Special Forces, Army Special Forces to whom he was assigned, had their Iraqi translator, an Iraqi American Christian, paint in giant red Arabic letters on the side of a Bradley fighting vehicle the words 'Jesus killed Mohammed.' Then, while they put the translator on the roof with a bullhorn, shouting in Arabic, 'Jesus killed Mohammed,' and then training their guns, training American guns on anybody who responded, the Bradley fighting vehicle rolled out into the city of Samarra and drawing fire everywhere it went, leading the Special Forces to conclude that every single Iraqi who took offense at these words, 'Jesus killed Mohammed,' was part of the enemy and therefore needed to be destroyed.
"And I spoke to the man who drove that Bradley, Lieutenant John DeGiulio, now Captain John DeGiulio, promoted since. And he describes wreaking almost biblical destruction on one whole block, blowing up every single thing he saw. And he said he was able to do this, because God was on his side and because he had been spiritually armored by watching Mel Gibson's 'Passion of the Christ'. And then he thanked his chaplain for preparing him for that kind of spiritual battle on the streets of Iraq."
Related.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece
QuoteTAMPA — Marine reservist Jasen Bruce was getting clothes out of the trunk of his car Monday evening when a bearded man in a robe approached him.
That man, a Greek Orthodox priest named Father Alexios Marakis, speaks little English and was lost, police said. He wanted directions.
What the priest got instead, police say, was a tire iron to the head. Then he was chased for three blocks and pinned to the ground — as the Marine kept a 911 operator on the phone, saying he had captured a terrorist.
Police say Bruce offered several reasons to explain his actions:
The man tried to rob him.
The man grabbed Bruce's crotch and made an overt sexual advance in perfect English.
The man yelled "Allahu Akbar," Arabic for "God is great," the same words some witnesses said the Fort Hood shooting suspect uttered last week.
"That's what they tell you right before they blow you up," police say Bruce told them.
Bruce ended up in jail, accused of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. He was released Tuesday on $7,500 bail. Marakis ended up at the hospital with stitches. He told the police he didn't want to press charges, espousing biblical forgiveness.
But Tuesday, Bruce wasn't saying sorry.
More at link.
Needs to be cross-referenced with the "WTF Florida" thread.
I do not recall if the Greek Orthodox Muslims are part of Al Queda or not.
\
(http://www.newsgroper.com/files/legacy/ap060206022414.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on November 12, 2009, 03:20:09 PM
Just a reminder from Jeff Shartlet:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/6/the_crusade_for_a_christian_military
Quote"Well, after about a year of interviewing military personnel, this was, in some ways, the most frightening story that I encountered. A man named Staff Sergeant Jeffery Humphrey, one of the very few soldiers who, in this military climate, had the courage to come forward and speak out about what he had seen, he had been stationed in Samarra. It was Easter. The day began calmly. A chaplain brought around a copy of Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic film 'Passion of the Christ,' which they then put on constant play throughout the day.
"When they came under attack, the Special Forces, Army Special Forces to whom he was assigned, had their Iraqi translator, an Iraqi American Christian, paint in giant red Arabic letters on the side of a Bradley fighting vehicle the words 'Jesus killed Mohammed.' Then, while they put the translator on the roof with a bullhorn, shouting in Arabic, 'Jesus killed Mohammed,' and then training their guns, training American guns on anybody who responded, the Bradley fighting vehicle rolled out into the city of Samarra and drawing fire everywhere it went, leading the Special Forces to conclude that every single Iraqi who took offense at these words, 'Jesus killed Mohammed,' was part of the enemy and therefore needed to be destroyed.
"And I spoke to the man who drove that Bradley, Lieutenant John DeGiulio, now Captain John DeGiulio, promoted since. And he describes wreaking almost biblical destruction on one whole block, blowing up every single thing he saw. And he said he was able to do this, because God was on his side and because he had been spiritually armored by watching Mel Gibson's 'Passion of the Christ'. And then he thanked his chaplain for preparing him for that kind of spiritual battle on the streets of Iraq."
Woo hoo! Go America!
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 12, 2009, 03:33:12 PM
I do not recall if the Greek Orthodox Muslims are part of Al Queda or not.
\
(http://www.newsgroper.com/files/legacy/ap060206022414.jpg)
Greek Orthodox...
Muslims?
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on November 12, 2009, 03:29:24 PM
Related.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece
QuoteTAMPA — Marine reservist Jasen Bruce was getting clothes out of the trunk of his car Monday evening when a bearded man in a robe approached him.
That man, a Greek Orthodox priest named Father Alexios Marakis, speaks little English and was lost, police said. He wanted directions.
What the priest got instead, police say, was a tire iron to the head. Then he was chased for three blocks and pinned to the ground — as the Marine kept a 911 operator on the phone, saying he had captured a terrorist.
Police say Bruce offered several reasons to explain his actions:
The man tried to rob him.
The man grabbed Bruce's crotch and made an overt sexual advance in perfect English.
The man yelled "Allahu Akbar," Arabic for "God is great," the same words some witnesses said the Fort Hood shooting suspect uttered last week.
"That's what they tell you right before they blow you up," police say Bruce told them.
Bruce ended up in jail, accused of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. He was released Tuesday on $7,500 bail. Marakis ended up at the hospital with stitches. He told the police he didn't want to press charges, espousing biblical forgiveness.
But Tuesday, Bruce wasn't saying sorry.
More at link.
So if I ever go to Florida I probably should shave the beard.
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 12, 2009, 03:33:12 PM
I do not recall if the Greek Orthodox Muslims are part of Al Queda or not.
\
(http://www.newsgroper.com/files/legacy/ap060206022414.jpg)
Greek Orthodox... Muslims?
Well, OBVIOUSLY the guy was Greek Orthodox and OBVIOUSLY the guy was a robe wearing, beard sporting TERRORIST... so what else could he possibly be, other than a Greek Orthodox Mulsim Terrorist?
Quote from: LMNO on November 12, 2009, 03:39:03 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 12, 2009, 03:33:12 PM
I do not recall if the Greek Orthodox Muslims are part of Al Queda or not.
\
(http://www.newsgroper.com/files/legacy/ap060206022414.jpg)
Greek Orthodox... Muslims?
Stop hating America, Alphapance.
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements
treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:35:50 PM
However... in this case, I think either:
A) He lost his marbles and this is a tragic act of Crazy
B) He somehow became indoctrinated with an extremist viewpoint and it could be considered either Terrorism or Treason or an act of war... committed by a lone individual.
C) He somehow became indoctrinated with an extremist viewpoint and collaborated with other extremists. In which case it would probably be terrorism and treason and an act of war... and a conspiracy.
I don't want to label it an act of war, because the only defining factor that would make him part of the "other army" is his religion... which suddenly means the enemy is the religion, rather than a pack of crazy extremists that are just running around blowing shit up and causing general chaos.
Hasan isn't necessarily crazy. If he were to somehow come to the conclusion that the military's real target was Islam in general, that the soldiers were thinking in strict terms of "us" and "them" where "them" means "Muslims," then its not terribly unreasonable to take that to the logical conclusion that "If I am one of Them, then the military is against me." Now for some unknown reason, when you treat a person like they are one of your enemies, they very often start
acting like one of your enemies. I'm speaking in of ignorance of the particulars, but given that we generally agree that the policies of Bush and the US military have
created more enemies, it doesn't seem that unreasonable that some of those created enemies would in fact be American citizens.
And once you come to the conclusion that the military is your enemy, striking at a relatively lightly defended target far behind the front lines makes a disturbing amount of sense. I'm guessing that Hasan didn't have a lot of martial training, being a psychiatrist. If that's the case, he did pretty well for himself - if every member of a group that was trying to kill American soldiers killed as many as Hasan did, we'd be running low on soldiers in very short order.
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
Fuck it, they are gonna take them from you anyway.
wut
I still fear where we are going with the new president. I feel he may allow the taking of rights to continue that his predecessor began.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
Some, but not all. In this case, you are correct, though...S2 may investigate a soldier for any reason or no reason at all.
Quote from: rygD on November 13, 2009, 07:33:44 PM
I still fear where we are going with the new president. I feel he may allow the taking of rights to continue that his predecessor began.
Google "Media Shield". :lulz:
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
#2 on her list was prison chaplains, nothing to do with military. Unless you want to make a system where preachers, reverends, and philosophers in general are second-class citizens?
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
#2 on her list was prison chaplains, nothing to do with military. Unless you want to make a system where preachers, reverends, and philosophers in general are second-class citizens?
They aren't?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2009, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: rygD on November 13, 2009, 07:33:44 PM
I still fear where we are going with the new president. I feel he may allow the taking of rights to continue that his predecessor began.
Google "Media Shield". :lulz:
See...
Quote from: rygD on November 13, 2009, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2009, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: rygD on November 13, 2009, 07:33:44 PM
I still fear where we are going with the new president. I feel he may allow the taking of rights to continue that his predecessor began.
Google "Media Shield". :lulz:
See...
Stop hating America™, you Al Qaeda kisser.
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
#2 on her list was prison chaplains, nothing to do with military. Unless you want to make a system where preachers, reverends, and philosophers in general are second-class citizens?
actually, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 09:35:55 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 13, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: GA on November 13, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on November 11, 2009, 05:01:09 PM
1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.
If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.
I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?
#1 and #2 say that a criminal liking you is sufficient grounds to for the Feds to open up an investigation into you personally. Imagine some crazy nutjob comes on this forum and takes a liking to RWHNs writing, and "endorses" it, whatever that means, before being hounded off the forum for being a crazy nutjob. Then, said crazy nutjob goes and does something sufficiently crazy and nutty, like running a crack smuggling ring. Under the precedent set by #s 1 and 2, this is sufficient grounds for the FBI or CIA or whoever to open an investigation into RWHNs life, intercepting all his communications, searching his home, whatever they feel is necessary, on the grounds that a known criminal endorsed RWHNs work, which means that obviously RWHN is a criminal of some kind, and we can't have him working with our kids, right? For the children.
#5 would make the following statements treasonous:
"Mass murderers deserve the death penalty, even if they are American citizens."
"A woman has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term." (providing that someone in the justice department felt that embryos/fetuses could be considered citizens.)
"You have the right to defend yourself and your family, including, if necessary, the use of lethal force, even if the attacker is an American citizen."
"American citizens who put on uniforms of opposing armies and fire upon American troops should be treated exactly like every other member of that opposing army (i.e., shot.)"
RWHN is not a member of an armed service.
you agree to forfeit some of the rights you enjoy as a citizen when you become a soldier.
#2 on her list was prison chaplains, nothing to do with military. Unless you want to make a system where preachers, reverends, and philosophers in general are second-class citizens?
actually, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
:crankey:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2009, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: rygD on November 13, 2009, 09:26:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 13, 2009, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: rygD on November 13, 2009, 07:33:44 PM
I still fear where we are going with the new president. I feel he may allow the taking of rights to continue that his predecessor began.
Google "Media Shield". :lulz:
See...
Stop hating America™, you Al Qaeda kisser.
Can the wimmins be Al Qaeda? I just kiss them places where no one can see me (but, boy, does it get warm under there).
they can, but, umm....you know how Osama Bil Laden has that gnarly beard on his face?
that's not where the Al Quaeda women have their gnarly beards.
TRUTH!
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort)
Quote
American Muslims To Fort Hood Shooter: 'Thanks A Lot, Asshole'
FORT HOOD, TX—Following Army psychologist Nidal Malik Hasan's shooting rampage on the Fort Hood military base last week that left 13 people dead and 30 others injured, fellow Muslims across the nation sent him a message today, saying "thanks a fucking bunch, asshole," to the 39-year-old killer. "Hey, great, eight years of progress right down the shitter," St. Cloud, MN resident Zahida Naseem said at one of dozens of impromptu rallies held nationwide. "And you just had to scream 'Allahu Akbar' while you did it, didn't you? May as well have put on a turban and rode a fucking camel right through the army base, you dick. Thanks for making the foreseeable future a living hell for normal, peace-loving Muslims in this country. Really appreciate it!" American Sikhs are also reportedly enraged with Hasan, and an official statement from the National Sikh Heritage Center read, in part, "look, we got nothing to do with that guy."
:lulz:
But how can this be? Muslims in the US have it so easy (http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/when_muslims_commit_violent_ac.php) with the media. Incidentally, trolling Goldberg's comments to show what a bigot he is is probably why my Nanowrimo project is so far behind.
And also, isn't it great that Bush and Obama have basically chucked the Constitution out entirely? Sure, it sucks from a civil liberties perspective, but at least it saves peoples lives, right? Right (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/Story?id=9030873&page=1)?
QuoteU.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.
Nothing is said whether or not such information was given to the Army, so I'm going to assume it
wasn't. A very broad datamining program is still underway (http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/liebermans-hunt-for-a-lone-wolf/), but, you know, is actually not doing anything.
Calls to purge Muslims from the military (http://washingtonindependent.com/67177/irony-we-find-you-in-the-most-tragic-places-like-fort-hood), from the right, are continuing, and of course Joe Lieberman is stirring the shit (see the link above). Presumably these are the same sort of people who would've stopped Senator Daniel Inouye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye) and Commander H.B. Le (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/world/asia/10vietnam.html?ref=world) from joining the military as well.
Irony corner: guess who else (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/09/AR2009110903618.html) didn't think Muslims should serve in the US military?
This shit is starting to get fucking old.
There are Christians in the Army who let there hate get the better of themselves and others around them, and they often get overlooked. Why don't we ban Christians as well? Hell, one of the guys I work with has made it known that he thinks women shouldn't be in the military. I warned him that he might not want to be so vocal. This is not the only bigoted thing I hear frequently. It isn't like it comes from just a small group either. I hear nonstop racism, sexism, etc. from everyone, at all levels. It is even worse while deployed. I recently heard a Battalion Commander talking with some local tribal leaders, say how beautiful he thought the ideas in the Quran were, and how much he respected Muslims and their practices, and that it is a shame that people twist these things to spread hate and destruction. They made some comments to him, which he tried to respond to as though he knew what he was talking about, and perhaps the terp helped him out, but to me he was somewhat offensive and made a fool of himself. Shortly after the meeting ended I overheard him making jokes such as "in America the women shave their armpits, I guess here the men do it" and more along those lines, showing his ignorance, and other things that were not quite so kind.
I know he was just playing politician, as he is supposed to, but really? Obviously it isn't all hate fueled, and we have programs, broken as they may be, to deal with it. I just really want this shit to blow over or gets fixed, and quick. I know many Muslims who, like myself, have decided to do this because they feel this is their duty to their country, not so they can cause more havoc from within. How about the changes in policy that let criminals that previously had not been permitted into military service? Might there be some problems there? I know I am probably as biased as the next fucker (or perhaps not, based on what I hear) but these things, as you know, Cain, are just fucking retarded. Hopefully no one that has any influence on the military takes this seriously, and those that serve don't get fueled by this, causing more problems.
Looking through the slide show, very interesting stuff, and some of the misspellings (Angles instead of Angels...hmmm, I have seen that somewhere before, but intentionally...LaVey or someone perhaps?) are fun. I need to finish reading through it.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/journal/docs-temp/320-cameron.pdf
I thought this was an interesting look at the man who did it and why he might have done so.
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well. He seemed to be hanging around with, talking to and looking at material produced by Islamic militants, but the question is whether that was what influenced him in the first place, or if he went looking for it for an excuse.
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well.
This will probably explain me when I finally just give in, as well.
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
That isn't a reason to hate them, that is a reason to hope for more.
Quote from: rygD on November 17, 2009, 04:07:26 PM
That isn't a reason to hate them, that is a reason to hope for more.
Hope for more shootings? What?
I said it in jest. But, I figured you would want as many to die as possible. I know I frequently wish for the deaths of some.
Quote from: rygD on November 17, 2009, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well.
This will probably explain me when I finally just give in, as well.
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
That isn't a reason to hate them, that is a reason to hope for more.
But I can't get paid for saying "they're unpredictable".
I could, at least, in theory, get paid for what I know about groups of terrorists, the social dynamics. There is a predictive element there.
Of course, this assumes someone paying me for doing something other than serve drinks, make steak and kidney pie or prepare a salad, which is very unlikely.
Quote from: rygD on November 17, 2009, 05:01:17 PM
I said it in jest. But, I figured you would want as many to die as possible. I know I frequently wish for the deaths of some.
I don't want anyone to die. I just want them off my planet. :)
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 05:12:41 PM
Quote from: rygD on November 17, 2009, 04:07:26 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well.
This will probably explain me when I finally just give in, as well.
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
That isn't a reason to hate them, that is a reason to hope for more.
But I can't get paid for saying "they're unpredictable".
I could, at least, in theory, get paid for what I know about groups of terrorists, the social dynamics. There is a predictive element there.
Of course, this assumes someone paying me for doing something other than serve drinks, make steak and kidney pie or prepare a salad, which is very unlikely.
There is work out there for you, and I see no reason for you not to be able to get a job doing such work. You may not like working for the government, so maybe go do some freelance writing for newspapers and magazines or something, if you can. That may be a bit more rough to get your foot in the door, but it gives you something to start with, and gives you a few more options if you become successful . Or you can write books.
Perhaps one day you will be paying someone for preparing and serving food and drinks for you.
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well. He seemed to be hanging around with, talking to and looking at material produced by Islamic militants, but the question is whether that was what influenced him in the first place, or if he went looking for it for an excuse.
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
I think that they could have caught him without also alienating every single Muslim in the service. At the very least his power point presentation on Muslims in the military and the people he was e-mailing should have been a red flag that he needed a psych evaluation. Like you said, it's impossible to predict them ahead of time, but people can catch this in real time if they pay attention to the warning signs. A lot of people dropped the ball on this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 17, 2009, 05:15:05 PM
Quote from: rygD on November 17, 2009, 05:01:17 PM
I said it in jest. But, I figured you would want as many to die as possible. I know I frequently wish for the deaths of some.
I don't want anyone to die. I just want them off my planet. :)
See, you are so nice. Perhaps that is why you can function better socially. I still will enjoy my thoughts of torturous death.
Quote from: rygD on November 17, 2009, 05:54:43 PMThere is work out there for you, and I see no reason for you not to be able to get a job doing such work. You may not like working for the government, so maybe go do some freelance writing for newspapers and magazines or something, if you can. That may be a bit more rough to get your foot in the door, but it gives you something to start with, and gives you a few more options if you become successful . Or you can write books.
Perhaps one day you will be paying someone for preparing and serving food and drinks for you.
Actually, I'm literally not allowed to. Dual national means I am teh untrustworthy, despite the fact Australia is the UK's second closest military ally.
Freelance is something I've been trying to get into, but there are problems over here with the newspaper industry...almost as bad as the US, in fact. I'm blogging on the topic, and attracting some interest, but nothing that is paying, for the moment.
[just saying]
If you self-published a book collecting your previous essays on politics and IR, I'd buy it.
[/just saying]
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 17, 2009, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well. He seemed to be hanging around with, talking to and looking at material produced by Islamic militants, but the question is whether that was what influenced him in the first place, or if he went looking for it for an excuse.
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
I think that they could have caught him without also alienating every single Muslim in the service. At the very least his power point presentation on Muslims in the military and the people he was e-mailing should have been a red flag that he needed a psych evaluation. Like you said, it's impossible to predict them ahead of time, but people can catch this in real time if they pay attention to the warning signs. A lot of people dropped the ball on this.
In this case, yes. However generally, self-starters are hard to catch without some pretty serious civil liberties violations. If Hasan hadn't been so outspoken, and only used a personal, home computer (complete with off-the-shelf encryption) for his travails around the jihadi-net, I very much doubt anyone would've caught him at all.
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2009, 05:59:45 PM
[just saying]
If you self-published a book collecting your previous essays on politics and IR, I'd buy it.
[/just saying]
My past ones aren't worth it. A new collection probably would be, if I put more thought into it.
I've been meaning to do over the PFLD blog anyway, with a more focused approach, so we will see. I'm hesistant about selling anything with my real name on it that can be linked back to here, for obvious reasons.
It might be interesting to publish under the nom-de-plume "Cain", actually.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on November 17, 2009, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 08:08:39 AM
Having learnt more, I'm leaning towards either self-radicalization or psychotic break as a motive. Either would explain his actions quite well. He seemed to be hanging around with, talking to and looking at material produced by Islamic militants, but the question is whether that was what influenced him in the first place, or if he went looking for it for an excuse.
Damn I hate self-radicalizers. None of the group models apply to them, it's very possible they could be crazy or mentally ill, and they're almost impossible to catch.
I think that they could have caught him without also alienating every single Muslim in the service. At the very least his power point presentation on Muslims in the military and the people he was e-mailing should have been a red flag that he needed a psych evaluation. Like you said, it's impossible to predict them ahead of time, but people can catch this in real time if they pay attention to the warning signs. A lot of people dropped the ball on this.
I know who he could have had check him out...oh wait...
The thing is Iason, a lot of things that should get looked into don't, especially with Officers. They can (sometimes) get away with murder. I am not sure why this is, as I have never really been too worried to tell officers what I think. I usually am more worried about 1SGs and CSMs who are out to crush balls. They tend to fuck up my life more (why don't we have people guard the porta-shitters so no one writes in them, make sure to wear all your shit so you look like a major douche, then check it out after they are done in there). I don't know why it seems Officers are untouchable though, as they shouldn't be, and it may just be this Division.
Quote from: Cain on November 17, 2009, 05:58:41 PM
Actually, I'm literally not allowed to. Dual national means I am teh untrustworthy, despite the fact Australia is the UK's second closest military ally.
Australian camo looks funny. (But so do ACUs and ABUs. Also, they do not work, unless you lay face down in gravel or are in the mountains).
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2009, 05:59:45 PM
[just saying]
If you self-published a book collecting your previous essays on politics and IR, I'd buy it.
[/just saying]
Seconded. I like reading what you have to say, I have just never had the time to keep up. I might enjoy it more if I followed politics better, which you help with.
Quote from: LMNO on November 17, 2009, 05:59:45 PM
[just saying]
If you self-published a book collecting your previous essays on politics and IR, I'd buy it.
[/just saying]
Thirded. I'd actually probably buy 2 and give a copy to my friend, Sean.
OK, I'll do something then.
I can't promise a deadline, of course....