Principia Discordia

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 18, 2012, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

ANNNNNNND THE BUTTHURT SPILLS ALL OVER THE BOARD  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 10:44:54 AM
Hm. I offer the following, for your consideration:

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/polin/polin124.pdf (http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/polin/polin124.pdf)

http://www.metafilter.com/119502/Guys-who-do-not-watch-porn-do-not-exist (http://www.metafilter.com/119502/Guys-who-do-not-watch-porn-do-not-exist)

http://www.metafilter.com/119869/I-really-value-that-experience-because-it-gave-me-confidence-to-then-pursue-other-relationships (http://www.metafilter.com/119869/I-really-value-that-experience-because-it-gave-me-confidence-to-then-pursue-other-relationships)

Is there such a thing as "consensual exploitation"? I wonder...

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 18, 2012, 01:49:51 PM
Okay, so your first link was to libertarian alliance, therefore everything you say, ever, for the whole rest of eternity and for some considerable time afterward, is invalid!

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

Wow, it's Homoeopathy Boy with his l33t critical thinking skills back again. :rolls eyes: What is your special power? Is it being full of shit, yanno, like homoeopathic cures are according to it's prime tenants?

The difference between hospitality and professional sportspeoples and the sex work is that is doesn't fuck people up with as large a rate as the sex industry, with is selling PEOPLE AND THEIR BODY PARTS not their skills.  The sex industry is slavery. when it's at its worst.

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 10:44:54 AM
Hm. I offer the following, for your consideration:


http://www.metafilter.com/119502/Guys-who-do-not-watch-porn-do-not-exist (http://www.metafilter.com/119502/Guys-who-do-not-watch-porn-do-not-exist)

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 18, 2012, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

ANNNNNNND THE BUTTHURT SPILLS ALL OVER THE BOARD  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:20:05 PM
Pixie takes no prisoners.   :lulz:

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:21:23 PM

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 18, 2012, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

ANNNNNNND THE BUTTHURT SPILLS ALL OVER THE BOARD  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

It is the song of my people.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:46:32 PM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:21:23 PM

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 18, 2012, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

ANNNNNNND THE BUTTHURT SPILLS ALL OVER THE BOARD  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

It is the song of my people.

Also what the fuck was up with Holist and the drive by posting? I was just starting to have FUN^TM. MOTHERFUCKER!

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:55:50 PM

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:46:32 PM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:21:23 PM

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 18, 2012, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

ANNNNNNND THE BUTTHURT SPILLS ALL OVER THE BOARD  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

It is the song of my people.

Also what the fuck was up with Holist and the drive by posting? I was just starting to have FUN^TM. MOTHERFUCKER!

If it's all the same to ya, I'd just as soon he didn't stain up the thread unnecessarily.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 04:02:26 PM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:55:50 PM

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:46:32 PM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 03:21:23 PM

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 18, 2012, 09:50:31 AM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

ANNNNNNND THE BUTTHURT SPILLS ALL OVER THE BOARD  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

It is the song of my people.

Also what the fuck was up with Holist and the drive by posting? I was just starting to have FUN^TM. MOTHERFUCKER!

If it's all the same to ya, I'd just as soon he didn't stain up the thread unnecessarily.

Homoeopathy poop is hard to get out of the furniture.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
[The difference between hospitality and professional sportspeoples and the sex work is that is doesn't fuck people up with as large a rate as the sex industry, with is selling PEOPLE AND THEIR BODY PARTS not their skills.  The sex industry is slavery. when it's at its worst.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
Your link title's blanket statement is utter fucking bullshit bullshit bullshit.  Seriously.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
The link talks some sense about how porn has warped post-internet sexuality for some people...

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
Now do me a favour and get the fuck off my planet.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:17:45 PM
My partner, Payne, (or PANG!, as his screenname is now) doesn't watch porn

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 04:13:09 PM

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:17:45 PM
My partner, Payne, (or PANG!, as his screenname is now) doesn't watch porn

or..

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 04:09:14 PM

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
[The difference between hospitality and professional sportspeoples and the sex work is that is doesn't fuck people up with as large a rate as the sex industry, with is selling PEOPLE AND THEIR BODY PARTS not their skills.  The sex industry is slavery. when it's at its worst.

Yo to you, too, Pixie,

Your first sentence I could almost agree with, you'd only have to replace "The difference" by "One of the differences". Although I would be interested to see a study of how professional sportspeople do after their careers end, and I certainly haven't seen many waiters or hotel maids retire early with a handy sum and a bag of investments, with that minor adjustment your first sentence is probably right.

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was making, namely that IF the thing that made the porn-movie industry "just wrong", as Roger was asserting, is that it commodifies humans, THEN there is also something morally wrong with the professional sports industry, the hospitality industry - incidentally, also the film and music industries - as well as most educational systems, because humans get commodified in them as well.

Your second sentence (two very short sentences?), however, is totally ambiguous.  Does it mean that the sex industry (any sex industry) is as bad as slavery at its worst? I think that's very obviously false: take the example of the South American peoples being enslaved to work in Spanish gold-mines - I'm sure some porn actors have it bad, and some even have it very bad, but I think there's really no comparison. Alternatively, it could mean that the sex industry, at its worst, is as bad as slavery: a truism.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 04:23:23 PM
Sex trafficking = slavery.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 06:59:55 PM
I'LL STAY A DAY OR TWO
I'LL STAY THE WHOLE MONTH THROUGH
BUT BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY TO YOU
I MUST BE GOING.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 18, 2012, 06:59:55 PM
I'LL STAY A DAY OR TWO
I'LL STAY THE WHOLE MONTH THROUGH
BUT BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY TO YOU
I MUST BE GOING.

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 04:09:14 PM

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
[The difference between hospitality and professional sportspeoples and the sex work is that is doesn't fuck people up with as large a rate as the sex industry, with is selling PEOPLE AND THEIR BODY PARTS not their skills.  The sex industry is slavery. when it's at its worst.

Yo to you, too, Pixie,

Your first sentence I could almost agree with, you'd only have to replace "The difference" by "One of the differences". Although I would be interested to see a study of how professional sportspeople do after their careers end, and I certainly haven't seen many waiters or hotel maids retire early with a handy sum and a bag of investments, with that minor adjustment your first sentence is probably right.

But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was making, namely that IF the thing that made the porn-movie industry "just wrong", as Roger was asserting, is that it commodifies humans, THEN there is also something morally wrong with the professional sports industry, the hospitality industry - incidentally, also the film and music industries - as well as most educational systems, because humans get commodified in them as well.

Your second sentence (two very short sentences?), however, is totally ambiguous.  Does it mean that the sex industry (any sex industry) is as bad as slavery at its worst? I think that's very obviously false: take the example of the South American peoples being enslaved to work in Spanish gold-mines - I'm sure some porn actors have it bad, and some even have it very bad, but I think there's really no comparison. Alternatively, it could mean that the sex industry, at its worst, is as bad as slavery: a truism.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
Your link title's blanket statement is utter fucking bullshit bullshit bullshit.  Seriously.

It's not a fucking blanket statement, its a fucking headline. Seriously. Nobody in their right mind would actually want to assert that "Guys who do not use pornography do not exist", there's the deaf and blind, for starters.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
The link talks some sense about how porn has warped post-internet sexuality for some people...

I think it talks some sense about a little more, which you seem unwilling to acknowledge: that porn use is extremely prevalent in teens and young adults (those who were socialised with a working multi-media net connection). And that this is perhaps a problem.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
Now do me a favour and get the fuck off my planet.

You do know you can put me off it? It's in the settings somewhere.

Quote from: Pixie on September 18, 2012, 03:00:08 PM

Quote from: holist on September 18, 2012, 09:42:14 AM

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
"Still/solo" images aside (that's a whole other argument), if at it's best it's still turning an actual human into a commidty, it's wrong.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 11:04:04 PM
I'm talking about your low-end shit, here.  Filmed in shitty motels who only say "don't clog up the drains".

I wonder... is THAT backpedalling? Just checkin'

Also, humans are commodified in professional sports, in the hospitality industry, hell, they are commodified in most educational systems. If there is something specifically wrong about films of people having sex being sold, it is not likely to be the commodification of humans.

Wow, it's Homoeopathy Boy with his l33t critical thinking skills back again. :rolls eyes: What is your special power? Is it being full of shit, yanno, like homoeopathic cures are according to it's prime tenants?

The difference between hospitality and professional sportspeoples and the sex work is that is doesn't fuck people up with as large a rate as the sex industry, with is selling PEOPLE AND THEIR BODY PARTS not their skills.  The sex industry is slavery. when it's at its worst.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 23, 2012, 11:59:26 PM
Which raises some interesting ethical questions about professional football (and to a slightly lesser degree, soccer).

Quote from: holist on September 24, 2012, 08:45:03 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 23, 2012, 11:59:26 PM
Which raises some interesting ethical questions about professional football (and to a slightly lesser degree, soccer).

And about restaurants.

http://www.prole.info/ar/index.html (http://www.prole.info/ar/index.html)

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 25, 2012, 06:22:11 PM
I have to disagree with the idea that pornography is, by its very nature, exploitative and tantamount to sex trafficking. Pornography as it is typically produced may frequently have that effect, but the problem there is with how the porn industry currently works (mostly), not with pornography itself.

Also, I gotta agree with holist re: men watching porn. There are two types: men who watch porn, and men who lie about it and/or would watch it if they could. Even if on an intellectual level we know that we could be contributing to exploitative behavior, those baser instincts are pretty powerful.

I'm not gonna stop watching football either.

And I'm curious - if a man watches porn produced by, say, Tristan Taormino are they still a bad person?

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 05:29:47 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 05:39:39 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 05:29:47 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 06:31:09 AM

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 05:39:39 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 05:29:47 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

That's pretty old news, sugar pie.

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 06:39:08 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 06:31:09 AM

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 05:39:39 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 05:29:47 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

That's pretty old news, sugar pie.

Okay, fair enough. So is Oliver James, so it's hard to tell, sometimes.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 06:40:05 AM
A factor that I find fascinating here is that for some reason you seem to keep assuming that people who are concerned about one element of social injustice are completely ignorant of other elements of social injustice. Why would you assume that?

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 06:47:32 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 06:40:05 AM
A factor that I find fascinating here is that for some reason you seem to keep assuming that people who are concerned about one element of social injustice are completely ignorant of other elements of social injustice. Why would you assume that?

There are literally billions and billions of elements to social injustice, anyone thinking they are aware of all of them is kidding themselves, right?

Now I mentioned the evil that is pro sports (not all, but a great deal of it), and anyone who cared to respond at all only mentioned football.

So I made a mistake. Sorry. I am assuming that you are completely ignorant about some elements of social injustice (I think I could give you examples from over here), but I am making the same assumption about myself.

Oliver James writes interesting things about the causes of social injustice, particularly the above-average increase in social injustice in the ENglish-speaking world since the introduction of what he calls Selfish Capitalist Governance (Reagan and Thatcher, more or less).

I hope I haven't given further offence!

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 07:35:43 AM
(the above was an example of how shitty it is to be talked down to with the assumption that you're ignorant, BTW)

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 07:32:09 AM
It's the ASSUMPTION of ignorance that offends. People often say "hey, are you aware of X?" but that's very, very different from "if you feel this way about X then how can you justify supporting Y?" which is pompous and presumptuous.

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 05:39:39 AM
If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 01:05:09 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 07:32:09 AM
It's the ASSUMPTION of ignorance that offends. People often say "hey, are you aware of X?" but that's very, very different from "if you feel this way about X then how can you justify supporting Y?" which is pompous and presumptuous.

But come on, this is what I said:

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 05:39:39 AM
If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

Actually, I was being ignorant (about the US scandal). Over here, many people know about the hell those kids go through. Not much of a scandal, though.

Quote from: holist on September 26, 2012, 06:47:32 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 06:40:05 AM
A factor that I find fascinating here is that for some reason you seem to keep assuming that people who are concerned about one element of social injustice are completely ignorant of other elements of social injustice. Why would you assume that?

There are literally billions and billions of elements to social injustice, anyone thinking they are aware of all of them is kidding themselves, right?

Now I mentioned the evil that is pro sports (not all, but a great deal of it), and anyone who cared to respond at all only mentioned football.

So I made a mistake. Sorry. I am assuming that you are completely ignorant about some elements of social injustice (I think I could give you examples from over here), but I am making the same assumption about myself.

Oliver James writes interesting things about the causes of social injustice, particularly the above-average increase in social injustice in the ENglish-speaking world since the introduction of what he calls Selfish Capitalist Governance (Reagan and Thatcher, more or less).

I hope I haven't given further offence!

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 05:29:47 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 27, 2012, 04:26:27 PM
Go take a look at the rates of early death from non-natural causes among professional football players and compare them to any other popular professional sport. I think you'll find a difference so huge as to be startling. Hence my disinterest in the plight of professional baseball or basketball players. Those guys are still getting a good deal by getting paid fat loot to play a sport. Football players, perhaps, are not being justly compensated for the damage they're incurring to their own bodies.

QuoteBaseball players who accrued at least five qualifying seasons from 1959 through 1988 died at a higher rate than similarly experienced football players from the same time frame.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 27, 2012, 04:27:49 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 26, 2012, 05:29:47 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 26, 2012, 05:18:46 AM
Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

I meant the point holist was trying to make in that thread. Any point that relies upon "in a perfect world it wouldn't have to be that way" is pretty meaningless IMO.

Quote from: Cain on September 27, 2012, 04:46:01 PM
Clearly, the only solution is to ban sport entirely.  Sport is dangerous, and unhealthy.  Inactivity is the best bet.

Quote from: v3x on September 27, 2012, 04:50:28 PM

Quote from: Cain on September 27, 2012, 04:46:01 PM
Clearly, the only solution is to ban sport entirely.  Sport is dangerous, and unhealthy.  Inactivity is the best bet.

Sports are fine. But for them to benefit anyone, it's necessary for one to actually participate in the sport. As opposed to what Americans do with football, which is watch them from a distance while inflating to a size where there is a horizon between their eyes and their knees.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 27, 2012, 04:44:17 PM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 27, 2012, 04:26:27 PM
Go take a look at the rates of early death from non-natural causes among professional football players and compare them to any other popular professional sport. I think you'll find a difference so huge as to be startling. Hence my disinterest in the plight of professional baseball or basketball players. Those guys are still getting a good deal by getting paid fat loot to play a sport. Football players, perhaps, are not being justly compensated for the damage they're incurring to their own bodies.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8274392/comparing-mortality-rates-football-baseball

QuoteBaseball players who accrued at least five qualifying seasons from 1959 through 1988 died at a higher rate than similarly experienced football players from the same time frame.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 27, 2012, 05:10:22 PM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 27, 2012, 04:44:17 PM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 27, 2012, 04:26:27 PM
Go take a look at the rates of early death from non-natural causes among professional football players and compare them to any other popular professional sport. I think you'll find a difference so huge as to be startling. Hence my disinterest in the plight of professional baseball or basketball players. Those guys are still getting a good deal by getting paid fat loot to play a sport. Football players, perhaps, are not being justly compensated for the damage they're incurring to their own bodies.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8274392/comparing-mortality-rates-football-baseball

QuoteBaseball players who accrued at least five qualifying seasons from 1959 through 1988 died at a higher rate than similarly experienced football players from the same time frame.

Woah. Without having read the article yet, I'm kinda shocked. I don't give much of a shit about baseball, which is perhaps why I had no idea. I am, however, surprised that I missed the article on Grantland when it was posted. That's one of the handful of sites I bother to check daily.

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 28, 2012, 12:21:23 PM
I guess Jello covered it in Jock O rama. I don't have a problem with self destructive risk taking, be kinda hypocritical of me since that used to be my entire life but it should be a go into it with your eyes open trip. I guess it's a kinda fine line. When you're young, how open can your eyes be?

Quote from: VERBL on September 28, 2012, 12:11:17 PM
From what I gather, not against their will, but by the huge social prestige of being in that sport at an age and in an environment (highschool and college) where a lot of athletic young people think that kind of prestige is actually more important than other things. They promise young guys glory, fame, and wealth, and probably underplay the health risks.

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 01, 2012, 07:13:35 PM
All I can say is, so long as this shit continues, I'll be posting my rants at Scrubgenius.  Not because I'm mad or butthurt or anything, but because they just sink off the page while everyone's hollering at the aspie.  I'll repost them here when things calm down.

Incidentally, we're at about half the active users we had 2 weeks ago.  Just saying.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 01, 2012, 06:41:07 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

You just couldn't resist, could you?   :lulz:

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 07:38:59 PM
But I do stand by most people who grew up in the western civilization having suboptimal emotional self-regulation and self-image issues.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 01, 2012, 07:42:29 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 07:38:59 PM
But I do stand by most people who grew up in the western civilization having suboptimal emotional self-regulation and self-image issues.

Who cares what you stand by?   :?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 01, 2012, 06:41:07 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

You just couldn't resist, could you?   :lulz:

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 03:39:25 AM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 01, 2012, 06:41:07 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

You just couldn't resist, could you?   :lulz:

Serial arsonists have better self control.

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 06:46:50 AM

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 03:39:25 AM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 01, 2012, 06:41:07 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

You just couldn't resist, could you?   :lulz:

Serial arsonists have better self control.

As I just said, I did not mean this as a derogatory comment. I just happen to think this is the reality of general situation. Unfortunately.

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 08:23:58 AM
Actually it's more a commentary on how you don't seem to be able to exercise some constraint on your word salad.

Sometimes, less is actually more.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 02, 2012, 06:59:58 AM
Where the hell is the ignore button?

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 08:52:13 AM
Though I think some of what seems digressive and vague is just an optical illusion generated by the cultural difference.

Quote from: VERBL on October 02, 2012, 10:28:55 AM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 08:52:13 AM
Though I think some of what seems digressive and vague is just an optical illusion generated by the cultural difference.

While I am very much willing to believe that is the case, it doesn't/wouldn't change the fact that you're being insensitive to the local culture, as well, and kinda just going on and on in your own fashion with apparently little regard for where you're doing it. Which in a blessedly impolite culture like this one, gets you a lot of shit.

I get the feeling that we're past ad nauseum here. But I'm also busy with getting ready to move, so I don't mind not feeling like posting anywhere here, right now.

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 08:52:13 AM

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 08:23:58 AM
Actually it's more a commentary on how you don't seem to be able to exercise some constraint on your word salad.

Sometimes, less is actually more.

I am verbose, yes. Word-salad, this particular instance, no. I do digress and I am vague occasionally. Though I think some of what seems digressive and vague is just an optical illusion generated by the cultural difference. And hasty judgment.

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
...  transforming yourself into a "threat" (not really but for lack of a better word, it will do) to the group.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 02, 2012, 04:27:02 PM
:lulz: Yeah, it's happened the other way. I have changed my mind due to some of the discussions here, and I have had people tell me that my arguments on stances I brought to the board changed their mind. Now what? Claim that it's because I bullied them?

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 03:35:13 PM
tldr

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2012, 05:04:36 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 02, 2012, 04:27:02 PM
:lulz: Yeah, it's happened the other way. I have changed my mind due to some of the discussions here, and I have had people tell me that my arguments on stances I brought to the board changed their mind. Now what? Claim that it's because I bullied them?

It's because you reached through the monitor and Nigeled them.  You big bully.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 02, 2012, 05:13:38 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2012, 05:04:36 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 02, 2012, 04:27:02 PM
:lulz: Yeah, it's happened the other way. I have changed my mind due to some of the discussions here, and I have had people tell me that my arguments on stances I brought to the board changed their mind. Now what? Claim that it's because I bullied them?

It's because you reached through the monitor and Nigeled them.  You big bully.

I'M A BAD BAD MAN.

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I think the behaviour Nigel describes in the OP (and yes, I think it is a very good question) is partly a spandrel of social evolution. I also think it is partly also caused and sustained by the prevailence of neurosis among people raised and living in the multicultural (and, as someone pointed out earlier, though I don't remember who and which thread, fractally cultural) environment of the megapopulation after being raised in more or less dysfunctional families. I believe this unfortunate story began about the time the paelolithic slowly turned into the neolithic, whenever that was. When sustained and significant interaction between cultures and hence cultural evolution got off the ground.

In greater detail: I think people do not find it hard to admit to making a mistake in general. I think they find it hard to admit a mistake they are confronted with when they feel misunderstood, and when they sense that they are being rejected. Of course, some people are maladaptive to the point that they feel they are misunderstood and rejected every single time they are confronted with a mistake (this is the sort of thing you are trying to pin on me, totally unfairly, but I'll leave that until later.) It is those element of misunderstanding and rejection that make it hard. And it makes it hard because being misunderstood and rejected is actually quite terrifying.

And this is despite the fact that, if you look at it objectively, in this day and age, being misunderstood and rejected is in most cases not such a big deal.

But it is a big deal in a monocultural tribal society. In a society where there is one language, one ethos, one set of customs, one way of understanding the world, in which people who stray from those norms are seen as fundamentally defective (mad, or evil, possessed, or whatever, but badwrong), being misunderstood is a terrible thing. A terrifying thing. It could well be the lead-up to being abandoned, or coerced. And most people (those whose early years are spent in a community that is functional enough) spend those first three, most formative years of their lives, when their emotional self-regulation is fine-tuned for a life in a particular culture, in an environment (a family, or, unfortunately, sometimes an insitution) which is quite a lot like a monocultural tribal society. So their emotional self-regulation, when they are thrown into the sea of the megapopulation at age 3, or later (kindergarten, school, etc.), is that of a monocultural human. Very scared of being misunderstood/rejected. Try to think back to your earliest memories: your were a blessedly happy and sheltered child indeed if you don't recall some scary incidents that involved interacting with strangers who did not know how you tick and didn't much like you.

If close family did that, so much the worse, which brings me to the second part of my explanation:

Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 05:36:37 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I think the behaviour Nigel describes in the OP (and yes, I think it is a very good question) is partly a spandrel of social evolution. I also think it is partly also caused and sustained by the prevailence of neurosis among people raised and living in the multicultural (and, as someone pointed out earlier, though I don't remember who and which thread, fractally cultural) environment of the megapopulation after being raised in more or less dysfunctional families. I believe this unfortunate story began about the time the paelolithic slowly turned into the neolithic, whenever that was. When sustained and significant interaction between cultures and hence cultural evolution got off the ground.

In greater detail: I think people do not find it hard to admit to making a mistake in general. I think they find it hard to admit a mistake they are confronted with when they feel misunderstood, and when they sense that they are being rejected. Of course, some people are maladaptive to the point that they feel they are misunderstood and rejected every single time they are confronted with a mistake (this is the sort of thing you are trying to pin on me, totally unfairly, but I'll leave that until later.) It is those element of misunderstanding and rejection that make it hard. And it makes it hard because being misunderstood and rejected is actually quite terrifying.

And this is despite the fact that, if you look at it objectively, in this day and age, being misunderstood and rejected is in most cases not such a big deal.

But it is a big deal in a monocultural tribal society. In a society where there is one language, one ethos, one set of customs, one way of understanding the world, in which people who stray from those norms are seen as fundamentally defective (mad, or evil, possessed, or whatever, but badwrong), being misunderstood is a terrible thing. A terrifying thing. It could well be the lead-up to being abandoned, or coerced. And most people (those whose early years are spent in a community that is functional enough) spend those first three, most formative years of their lives, when their emotional self-regulation is fine-tuned for a life in a particular culture, in an environment (a family, or, unfortunately, sometimes an insitution) which is quite a lot like a monocultural tribal society. So their emotional self-regulation, when they are thrown into the sea of the megapopulation at age 3, or later (kindergarten, school, etc.), is that of a monocultural human. Very scared of being misunderstood/rejected. Try to think back to your earliest memories: your were a blessedly happy and sheltered child indeed if you don't recall some scary incidents that involved interacting with strangers who did not know how you tick and didn't much like you.

If close family did that, so much the worse, which brings me to the second part of my explanation:

Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Since you don't seem to understand evolutionary biology, let's improve your argument.

A spandrel, sensu Gould and Lewontin, is a character of a species or higher group of organisms that does not have adaptive significance. It is a product of evolutionary contingency, but does not serve any adaptive function. As an aside, he tendency to assign adaptive value to every character is known as the Panglossian Paradigm, also in that same paper.

So, what you are saying is that the unwillingness to admit mistakes has no adaptive significance, but the measure of adaptive significance is fecundity, not emotional well being. Your argument should be that the unwillingness to admit mistake has no significance on fecundity. Furthermore, your argument revolves around a behavior that has lost adaptive significance recently, which is not the character of a spandrel. Instead, in your argument, the behavior should be called vestigial.

But even with these changes your argument is unfounded. There is no evidence that an unwillingness to admit mistakes has loss adaptive significance, i.e. has lost its impact on fecundity, the /only/ relevant measure of evolutionary success. Nor that it is socially unacceptable (any gander at political battles will show this). Furthermore, there is no "optimal in the evolutionary sense", only "whatever works".

*goes back to work on actual biology*

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 02, 2012, 04:27:02 PM
:lulz: Yeah, it's happened the other way. I have changed my mind due to some of the discussions here, and I have had people tell me that my arguments on stances I brought to the board changed their mind. Now what? Claim that it's because I bullied them?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2012, 06:20:25 PM
Dear non-Alty Hungarian hippy:

Nobody cares. 

Well, a few do, but they don't give a tangible shit, so either kill your stupid fucking self or get over it and DO something.  Just because you think you're smarter than Isaac J Einstein but whiny as hell or a pretty girl with a bitchy temperament that spoils your looks don't mean JACK to the revenue office.  That dick ain't gonna cut itself off and shit ain't gonna leap INTO your arse spontaneously.  No, you have to hack & stuff on yer own, regardless of the number of Discordians, modern medicine advocates, and menacing Eastern-European children arrayed against you.  All you humans are stupid. 

And stop using beer as a Nyquil chaser. Its making your ears flap like Mothra barnstorming Osaka.

Yours Truly,
Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 02, 2012, 07:03:07 PM
Finally, I'd like to thank you for your counseling, and praise you for your prowess at remote psychoanalysis. No, really. It's not at all offensive to say that most people in the world come from dysfunctional families, nor to apply that generalization specifically to PDers. In fact, since I've known you since December or so, would you mind writing me a letter saying that I underwent counseling with you? I need one for my doctor. I mean, you might have to fudge the timing because i need at least 3 months, but you know.

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 02, 2012, 10:04:08 AM

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 02, 2012, 06:59:58 AM
Where the hell is the ignore button?

I don't need a button. My brain point blank refuses to process anything the cunt says anymore, regardless of whether I try or not.  :lulz:

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 03:35:13 PM

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
...  transforming yourself into a "threat" (not really but for lack of a better word, it will do) to the group.

I think "irritation" may be a better term?

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. But at some point, the analogy is bound to fail: I am not a chimp, and neither is anyone else here. In particular, no band of chimps claims to place great value on rational discussion.

I don't expect you to go through my history here, but that's what I have been doing, several times now, to try to figure out what went wrong.

Beginning with orthographic posturing, and then sticking by it, was clearly stupid. Picking homeopathy as a first major subject was looking for a fight. I (eventually) realised this, admitted it, and apologised for it.

But the other times I was cluster-shat upon, much as I try to distance myself from them, still appear to be overwhelmingly unfair. I was less than crystal clear about the points I was trying to make, but I did nothing to merit accusations of sexism, racism, dishonesty or contempt for this group. Which is kind of sad.

I think you are totally right, I could be in a better situation now had I remained quiet for longer and had I been very judicious about contributing when I did start it. But that is not where I am at now. (Oh, and the Ayotollah, who is certainly capable of being very clear, also encountered the same thing.) If a group attacks this viciously for questioning some of the common beliefs of the group, that group is dogmatic. Even if it is entirely justified in its dogmatism because of the countless idiots who have attempted to change the power structure. I have already encountered a number of stories in which someone came to PD, read a lot, and ended up changing some pretty important beliefs as a result. I wonder, has that ever happened the other way? Or is that inconceivable?

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 07:38:11 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 03:35:13 PM

Quote from: Internet Jesus on October 02, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
...  transforming yourself into a "threat" (not really but for lack of a better word, it will do) to the group.

I think "irritation" may be a better term?

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. But at some point, the analogy is bound to fail: I am not a chimp, and neither is anyone else here. In particular, no band of chimps claims to place great value on rational discussion.

I don't expect you to go through my history here, but that's what I have been doing, several times now, to try to figure out what went wrong.

Beginning with orthographic posturing, and then sticking by it, was clearly stupid. Picking homeopathy as a first major subject was looking for a fight. I (eventually) realised this, admitted it, and apologised for it.

But the other times I was cluster-shat upon, much as I try to distance myself from them, still appear to be overwhelmingly unfair. I was less than crystal clear about the points I was trying to make, but I did nothing to merit accusations of sexism, racism, dishonesty or contempt for this group. Which is kind of sad.

I think you are totally right, I could be in a better situation now had I remained quiet for longer and had I been very judicious about contributing when I did start it. But that is not where I am at now. (Oh, and the Ayotollah, who is certainly capable of being very clear, also encountered the same thing.) If a group attacks this viciously for questioning some of the common beliefs of the group, that group is dogmatic. Even if it is entirely justified in its dogmatism because of the countless idiots who have attempted to change the power structure. I have already encountered a number of stories in which someone came to PD, read a lot, and ended up changing some pretty important beliefs as a result. I wonder, has that ever happened the other way? Or is that inconceivable?

Two things that would make for happy fun exciting te for all and possibly blowjobs for some:

Practice concision.  If you can't say it in three lines or less, consider not saying until a simpler formulation strikes you.  I'd get into the whys here but I am on line two.

Do not get lost in the particulars of an argument, most of it is usually decorations on the Christmas tree, but learn to try And understand the direction an argument is trying to go.

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 05:36:37 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I think the behaviour Nigel describes in the OP (and yes, I think it is a very good question) is partly a spandrel of social evolution. I also think it is partly also caused and sustained by the prevailence of neurosis among people raised and living in the multicultural (and, as someone pointed out earlier, though I don't remember who and which thread, fractally cultural) environment of the megapopulation after being raised in more or less dysfunctional families. I believe this unfortunate story began about the time the paelolithic slowly turned into the neolithic, whenever that was. When sustained and significant interaction between cultures and hence cultural evolution got off the ground.

In greater detail: I think people do not find it hard to admit to making a mistake in general. I think they find it hard to admit a mistake they are confronted with when they feel misunderstood, and when they sense that they are being rejected. Of course, some people are maladaptive to the point that they feel they are misunderstood and rejected every single time they are confronted with a mistake (this is the sort of thing you are trying to pin on me, totally unfairly, but I'll leave that until later.) It is those element of misunderstanding and rejection that make it hard. And it makes it hard because being misunderstood and rejected is actually quite terrifying.

And this is despite the fact that, if you look at it objectively, in this day and age, being misunderstood and rejected is in most cases not such a big deal.

But it is a big deal in a monocultural tribal society. In a society where there is one language, one ethos, one set of customs, one way of understanding the world, in which people who stray from those norms are seen as fundamentally defective (mad, or evil, possessed, or whatever, but badwrong), being misunderstood is a terrible thing. A terrifying thing. It could well be the lead-up to being abandoned, or coerced. And most people (those whose early years are spent in a community that is functional enough) spend those first three, most formative years of their lives, when their emotional self-regulation is fine-tuned for a life in a particular culture, in an environment (a family, or, unfortunately, sometimes an insitution) which is quite a lot like a monocultural tribal society. So their emotional self-regulation, when they are thrown into the sea of the megapopulation at age 3, or later (kindergarten, school, etc.), is that of a monocultural human. Very scared of being misunderstood/rejected. Try to think back to your earliest memories: your were a blessedly happy and sheltered child indeed if you don't recall some scary incidents that involved interacting with strangers who did not know how you tick and didn't much like you.

If close family did that, so much the worse, which brings me to the second part of my explanation:

Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Since you don't seem to understand evolutionary biology, let's improve your argument.

A spandrel, sensu Gould and Lewontin, is a character of a species or higher group of organisms that does not have adaptive significance. It is a product of evolutionary contingency, but does not serve any adaptive function. As an aside, he tendency to assign adaptive value to every character is known as the Panglossian Paradigm, also in that same paper.

So, what you are saying is that the unwillingness to admit mistakes has no adaptive significance, but the measure of adaptive significance is fecundity, not emotional well being. Your argument should be that the unwillingness to admit mistake has no significance on fecundity. Furthermore, your argument revolves around a behavior that has lost adaptive significance recently, which is not the character of a spandrel. Instead, in your argument, the behavior should be called vestigial.

But even with these changes your argument is unfounded. There is no evidence that an unwillingness to admit mistakes has loss adaptive significance, i.e. has lost its impact on fecundity, the /only/ relevant measure of evolutionary success. Nor that it is socially unacceptable (any gander at political battles will show this). Furthermore, there is no "optimal in the evolutionary sense", only "whatever works".

*goes back to work on actual biology*

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 08:15:04 PM

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 05:36:37 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I think the behaviour Nigel describes in the OP (and yes, I think it is a very good question) is partly a spandrel of social evolution. I also think it is partly also caused and sustained by the prevailence of neurosis among people raised and living in the multicultural (and, as someone pointed out earlier, though I don't remember who and which thread, fractally cultural) environment of the megapopulation after being raised in more or less dysfunctional families. I believe this unfortunate story began about the time the paelolithic slowly turned into the neolithic, whenever that was. When sustained and significant interaction between cultures and hence cultural evolution got off the ground.

In greater detail: I think people do not find it hard to admit to making a mistake in general. I think they find it hard to admit a mistake they are confronted with when they feel misunderstood, and when they sense that they are being rejected. Of course, some people are maladaptive to the point that they feel they are misunderstood and rejected every single time they are confronted with a mistake (this is the sort of thing you are trying to pin on me, totally unfairly, but I'll leave that until later.) It is those element of misunderstanding and rejection that make it hard. And it makes it hard because being misunderstood and rejected is actually quite terrifying.

And this is despite the fact that, if you look at it objectively, in this day and age, being misunderstood and rejected is in most cases not such a big deal.

But it is a big deal in a monocultural tribal society. In a society where there is one language, one ethos, one set of customs, one way of understanding the world, in which people who stray from those norms are seen as fundamentally defective (mad, or evil, possessed, or whatever, but badwrong), being misunderstood is a terrible thing. A terrifying thing. It could well be the lead-up to being abandoned, or coerced. And most people (those whose early years are spent in a community that is functional enough) spend those first three, most formative years of their lives, when their emotional self-regulation is fine-tuned for a life in a particular culture, in an environment (a family, or, unfortunately, sometimes an insitution) which is quite a lot like a monocultural tribal society. So their emotional self-regulation, when they are thrown into the sea of the megapopulation at age 3, or later (kindergarten, school, etc.), is that of a monocultural human. Very scared of being misunderstood/rejected. Try to think back to your earliest memories: your were a blessedly happy and sheltered child indeed if you don't recall some scary incidents that involved interacting with strangers who did not know how you tick and didn't much like you.

If close family did that, so much the worse, which brings me to the second part of my explanation:

Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Since you don't seem to understand evolutionary biology, let's improve your argument.

A spandrel, sensu Gould and Lewontin, is a character of a species or higher group of organisms that does not have adaptive significance. It is a product of evolutionary contingency, but does not serve any adaptive function. As an aside, he tendency to assign adaptive value to every character is known as the Panglossian Paradigm, also in that same paper.

So, what you are saying is that the unwillingness to admit mistakes has no adaptive significance, but the measure of adaptive significance is fecundity, not emotional well being. Your argument should be that the unwillingness to admit mistake has no significance on fecundity. Furthermore, your argument revolves around a behavior that has lost adaptive significance recently, which is not the character of a spandrel. Instead, in your argument, the behavior should be called vestigial.

But even with these changes your argument is unfounded. There is no evidence that an unwillingness to admit mistakes has loss adaptive significance, i.e. has lost its impact on fecundity, the /only/ relevant measure of evolutionary success. Nor that it is socially unacceptable (any gander at political battles will show this). Furthermore, there is no "optimal in the evolutionary sense", only "whatever works".

*goes back to work on actual biology*

Requoting, because I did not write this to have it not addressed.

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 08:15:04 PM

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 05:36:37 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I think the behaviour Nigel describes in the OP (and yes, I think it is a very good question) is partly a spandrel of social evolution. I also think it is partly also caused and sustained by the prevailence of neurosis among people raised and living in the multicultural (and, as someone pointed out earlier, though I don't remember who and which thread, fractally cultural) environment of the megapopulation after being raised in more or less dysfunctional families. I believe this unfortunate story began about the time the paelolithic slowly turned into the neolithic, whenever that was. When sustained and significant interaction between cultures and hence cultural evolution got off the ground.

In greater detail: I think people do not find it hard to admit to making a mistake in general. I think they find it hard to admit a mistake they are confronted with when they feel misunderstood, and when they sense that they are being rejected. Of course, some people are maladaptive to the point that they feel they are misunderstood and rejected every single time they are confronted with a mistake (this is the sort of thing you are trying to pin on me, totally unfairly, but I'll leave that until later.) It is those element of misunderstanding and rejection that make it hard. And it makes it hard because being misunderstood and rejected is actually quite terrifying.

And this is despite the fact that, if you look at it objectively, in this day and age, being misunderstood and rejected is in most cases not such a big deal.

But it is a big deal in a monocultural tribal society. In a society where there is one language, one ethos, one set of customs, one way of understanding the world, in which people who stray from those norms are seen as fundamentally defective (mad, or evil, possessed, or whatever, but badwrong), being misunderstood is a terrible thing. A terrifying thing. It could well be the lead-up to being abandoned, or coerced. And most people (those whose early years are spent in a community that is functional enough) spend those first three, most formative years of their lives, when their emotional self-regulation is fine-tuned for a life in a particular culture, in an environment (a family, or, unfortunately, sometimes an insitution) which is quite a lot like a monocultural tribal society. So their emotional self-regulation, when they are thrown into the sea of the megapopulation at age 3, or later (kindergarten, school, etc.), is that of a monocultural human. Very scared of being misunderstood/rejected. Try to think back to your earliest memories: your were a blessedly happy and sheltered child indeed if you don't recall some scary incidents that involved interacting with strangers who did not know how you tick and didn't much like you.

If close family did that, so much the worse, which brings me to the second part of my explanation:

Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Since you don't seem to understand evolutionary biology, let's improve your argument.

A spandrel, sensu Gould and Lewontin, is a character of a species or higher group of organisms that does not have adaptive significance. It is a product of evolutionary contingency, but does not serve any adaptive function. As an aside, he tendency to assign adaptive value to every character is known as the Panglossian Paradigm, also in that same paper.

So, what you are saying is that the unwillingness to admit mistakes has no adaptive significance, but the measure of adaptive significance is fecundity, not emotional well being. Your argument should be that the unwillingness to admit mistake has no significance on fecundity. Furthermore, your argument revolves around a behavior that has lost adaptive significance recently, which is not the character of a spandrel. Instead, in your argument, the behavior should be called vestigial.

But even with these changes your argument is unfounded. There is no evidence that an unwillingness to admit mistakes has loss adaptive significance, i.e. has lost its impact on fecundity, the /only/ relevant measure of evolutionary success. Nor that it is socially unacceptable (any gander at political battles will show this). Furthermore, there is no "optimal in the evolutionary sense", only "whatever works".

*goes back to work on actual biology*

Requoting, because I did not write this to have it not addressed.

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 02, 2012, 08:21:22 PM

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 08:15:04 PM

Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on October 02, 2012, 05:36:37 PM

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 01, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I think the behaviour Nigel describes in the OP (and yes, I think it is a very good question) is partly a spandrel of social evolution. I also think it is partly also caused and sustained by the prevailence of neurosis among people raised and living in the multicultural (and, as someone pointed out earlier, though I don't remember who and which thread, fractally cultural) environment of the megapopulation after being raised in more or less dysfunctional families. I believe this unfortunate story began about the time the paelolithic slowly turned into the neolithic, whenever that was. When sustained and significant interaction between cultures and hence cultural evolution got off the ground.

In greater detail: I think people do not find it hard to admit to making a mistake in general. I think they find it hard to admit a mistake they are confronted with when they feel misunderstood, and when they sense that they are being rejected. Of course, some people are maladaptive to the point that they feel they are misunderstood and rejected every single time they are confronted with a mistake (this is the sort of thing you are trying to pin on me, totally unfairly, but I'll leave that until later.) It is those element of misunderstanding and rejection that make it hard. And it makes it hard because being misunderstood and rejected is actually quite terrifying.

And this is despite the fact that, if you look at it objectively, in this day and age, being misunderstood and rejected is in most cases not such a big deal.

But it is a big deal in a monocultural tribal society. In a society where there is one language, one ethos, one set of customs, one way of understanding the world, in which people who stray from those norms are seen as fundamentally defective (mad, or evil, possessed, or whatever, but badwrong), being misunderstood is a terrible thing. A terrifying thing. It could well be the lead-up to being abandoned, or coerced. And most people (those whose early years are spent in a community that is functional enough) spend those first three, most formative years of their lives, when their emotional self-regulation is fine-tuned for a life in a particular culture, in an environment (a family, or, unfortunately, sometimes an insitution) which is quite a lot like a monocultural tribal society. So their emotional self-regulation, when they are thrown into the sea of the megapopulation at age 3, or later (kindergarten, school, etc.), is that of a monocultural human. Very scared of being misunderstood/rejected. Try to think back to your earliest memories: your were a blessedly happy and sheltered child indeed if you don't recall some scary incidents that involved interacting with strangers who did not know how you tick and didn't much like you.

If close family did that, so much the worse, which brings me to the second part of my explanation:

Most of the people on this board, just like most of the people who grew up in this civilization we share and are alive today, actually were raised in a manner that was far from optimal (in the evolutionary sense), and hence their emotional self-regulation is (to a greater or lessed degree) off-kilter. They feel threatened when they are faced with their mistakes, because they think they can only be loved if they are perfect: their lack of security in their relationship with their primary caregiver scars them for life. Some overcome it. Many never do. Those who don't often find it very hard to admit being wrong because they are afraid that if they do, they will be left alone to die. Those two effects interplay and reinforce each other in a number of interesting ways.

Since you don't seem to understand evolutionary biology, let's improve your argument.

A spandrel, sensu Gould and Lewontin, is a character of a species or higher group of organisms that does not have adaptive significance. It is a product of evolutionary contingency, but does not serve any adaptive function. As an aside, he tendency to assign adaptive value to every character is known as the Panglossian Paradigm, also in that same paper.

So, what you are saying is that the unwillingness to admit mistakes has no adaptive significance, but the measure of adaptive significance is fecundity, not emotional well being. Your argument should be that the unwillingness to admit mistake has no significance on fecundity. Furthermore, your argument revolves around a behavior that has lost adaptive significance recently, which is not the character of a spandrel. Instead, in your argument, the behavior should be called vestigial.

But even with these changes your argument is unfounded. There is no evidence that an unwillingness to admit mistakes has loss adaptive significance, i.e. has lost its impact on fecundity, the /only/ relevant measure of evolutionary success. Nor that it is socially unacceptable (any gander at political battles will show this). Furthermore, there is no "optimal in the evolutionary sense", only "whatever works".

*goes back to work on actual biology*

Requoting, because I did not write this to have it not addressed.

You may be sorely disappointed on that score, because holist has a history of failing to address substantive arguments, and either dismissing them out of hand, or simply ignoring them until they are buried under a deluge of muck and faeces.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2012, 07:39:56 PM

You realize that you're talking to our version of Gaggie, right?

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 08:51:28 PM
Also: I will try to describe, once again, and with great care, the difference that I sense between the consciousness/sense of self/individuality of someone from a dominantly monolithic (tribal) culture and someone from the "culture soup" that is found in many places today. I am interested in that difference. But I would like to reject the accusation that I see any sort of superiority relationship there ("white man's burden" or "noble savage"). Should any of my ideas lead to such conclusions, I will drop the ideas. Given the amount of work and toddler-minding and art therapy for my terribul childhood and IRL meetings I have lined up, I will probably not get around to this until Friday. But I will definitely get around to it.

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on October 02, 2012, 01:40:19 PM
Roger, if you post your content to the blog forum, it won't get rolled over by the crap (well it will in the forum view, but not in the Aggregator view).

Quote from: Dishonest Wanker on October 02, 2012, 08:51:28 PM
I have read both Kai's and Phox's criticisms of my thinking. I am busy, but as soon as I have some time, I will respond. As far as I can see, there will be admissions of mistakes (here's one up front: spandrel was definitely the wrong word, thank you for clearing that up) as well as clarification. I do wish to add that I offered these ideas as a sort of "just so story".

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 03, 2012, 01:50:10 PM
To answer your serious question: Simple. Evidence of acceleration/increase of cultural exchange =/= evidence of societal isolation. Just because there was more crossover later is by no means indicative that there was ever a society in which there was "one language, one set of customs, one way of viewing the world".

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 03, 2012, 02:12:14 PM
What purpose does a poster like Holist get from posting on this board.

or

What kind of mental disorder/cognitive impairment would enable the fact that you're the most annoying person on the internets to bypass your attention completely?

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 03, 2012, 09:28:27 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Split?

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 01:15:51 AM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 03, 2012, 09:28:27 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Split?

I suppose it might be worth another try, if you have the time and patience for it. But I think this thread is pretty much dead anyway.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 04, 2012, 01:24:56 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 01:15:51 AM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 03, 2012, 09:28:27 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Split?

I suppose it might be worth another try, if you have the time and patience for it. But I think this thread is pretty much dead anyway.

TGRR is world famous thread surgeon.  Is sheer jealousy that make USSR throw TGRR out.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 04, 2012, 01:24:56 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 01:15:51 AM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 03, 2012, 09:28:27 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 03, 2012, 03:44:17 PM
Looks like my thread turned into The Holist Show, About Holist again while I wasn't looking.

I give up.

Split?

I suppose it might be worth another try, if you have the time and patience for it. But I think this thread is pretty much dead anyway.

TGRR is world famous thread surgeon.  Is sheer jealousy that make USSR throw TGRR out.

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 02, 2012, 07:03:07 PM
There is a phrase, with which you may perhaps be familiar,  that accurately sums up the response of the critically thinking Übermenschen to whom you speak at this time: LOLWUT.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2012, 07:28:39 PM

Quote from: Doktor D. Jennifer Phox on October 02, 2012, 07:03:07 PM
Finally, I'd like to thank you for your counseling, and praise you for your prowess at remote psychoanalysis. No, really. It's not at all offensive to say that most people in the world come from dysfunctional families, nor to apply that generalization specifically to PDers. In fact, since I've known you since December or so, would you mind writing me a letter saying that I underwent counseling with you? I need one for my doctor. I mean, you might have to fudge the timing because i need at least 3 months, but you know.

Seriously.  My childhood and family situation was disgustingly stable, well-managed, and enlightened.  My parents stayed together, didn't abuse us or each other, I had a first-rate education, and my family moved from relative poverty to upper-class wealth between (my) age 8-15. 

And you see how I turned out.

So I urge all of you:  Drink a lot, fight, neglect your kids, and don't worry about their educations.  It's better that way, apparently.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 04, 2012, 09:32:37 PM
So, Holist is going through his posts, trying to delete them.

:lulz:

And he CAN, to some degree.  Except for thread starters and posts that have been replied to by other members.

So now he's gonna look dumb AND incomprehensible.

Hey, Holist...Shall I clue you in to what went wrong here?

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:06:05 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 04, 2012, 09:32:37 PM
So, Holist is going through his posts, trying to delete them.

:lulz:

And he CAN, to some degree.  Except for thread starters and posts that have been replied to by other members.

So now he's gonna look dumb AND incomprehensible.

Hey, Holist...Shall I clue you in to what went wrong here?

Ohhh wow.  :lol: Does he really have no clue how cringe-inducingly embarrassing that is? Holist, deleting your posts only makes sense if you're deleting content. You can't erase your tracks, and trying just makes you look pitiful. Please. Oh man. Just stop.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
At some point I pulled all my content from EBG. Not sure which version, maybe CU's? I don't regret that at all though.

Also, yoinking content from Pagan forums always gets them up in a knot. :lol:

Quote from: American Jackal on October 05, 2012, 12:22:47 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
At some point I pulled all my content from EBG. Not sure which version, maybe CU's? I don't regret that at all though.

Also, yoinking content from Pagan forums always gets them up in a knot. :lol:

YES IT DOES!!!


Coyote, got banned for deleting his own content.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 04, 2012, 09:32:37 PM
So, Holist is going through his posts, trying to delete them.

:lulz:

And he CAN, to some degree.  Except for thread starters and posts that have been replied to by other members.

So now he's gonna look dumb AND incomprehensible.

Hey, Holist...Shall I clue you in to what went wrong here?

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 06, 2012, 06:32:27 PM

Quote from: American Jackal on October 05, 2012, 12:22:47 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
At some point I pulled all my content from EBG. Not sure which version, maybe CU's? I don't regret that at all though.

Also, yoinking content from Pagan forums always gets them up in a knot. :lol:

YES IT DOES!!!


Coyote, got banned for deleting his own content.

:lulz: That was amazing. It almost makes me want to find a new Pagan forum to troll.

Quote from: Mangrove on October 06, 2012, 06:51:59 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 04, 2012, 09:32:37 PM
So, Holist is going through his posts, trying to delete them.

:lulz:

And he CAN, to some degree.  Except for thread starters and posts that have been replied to by other members.

So now he's gonna look dumb AND incomprehensible.

Hey, Holist...Shall I clue you in to what went wrong here?

Weird coincidence! I was thinking of going through my post history and edit it by adding content.

Quote from: American Jackal on October 06, 2012, 07:47:48 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 06, 2012, 06:32:27 PM

Quote from: American Jackal on October 05, 2012, 12:22:47 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
At some point I pulled all my content from EBG. Not sure which version, maybe CU's? I don't regret that at all though.

Also, yoinking content from Pagan forums always gets them up in a knot. :lol:

YES IT DOES!!!


Coyote, got banned for deleting his own content.

:lulz: That was amazing. It almost makes me want to find a new Pagan forum to troll.

My new thing is trolling historical European martial arts groups.

Coyote, slowing ticking off his hobbies.

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 06, 2012, 08:17:55 PM

Quote from: American Jackal on October 06, 2012, 07:47:48 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 06, 2012, 06:32:27 PM

Quote from: American Jackal on October 05, 2012, 12:22:47 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
At some point I pulled all my content from EBG. Not sure which version, maybe CU's? I don't regret that at all though.

Also, yoinking content from Pagan forums always gets them up in a knot. :lol:

YES IT DOES!!!


Coyote, got banned for deleting his own content.

:lulz: That was amazing. It almost makes me want to find a new Pagan forum to troll.

My new thing is trolling historical European martial arts groups.

Coyote, slowing ticking off his hobbies.

:lulz:

Quote from: American Jackal on October 06, 2012, 08:32:31 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 06, 2012, 08:17:55 PM

Quote from: American Jackal on October 06, 2012, 07:47:48 PM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 06, 2012, 06:32:27 PM

Quote from: American Jackal on October 05, 2012, 12:22:47 AM

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on October 04, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
At some point I pulled all my content from EBG. Not sure which version, maybe CU's? I don't regret that at all though.

Also, yoinking content from Pagan forums always gets them up in a knot. :lol:

YES IT DOES!!!


Coyote, got banned for deleting his own content.

:lulz: That was amazing. It almost makes me want to find a new Pagan forum to troll.

My new thing is trolling historical European martial arts groups.

Coyote, slowing ticking off his hobbies.

:lulz:

Did you know that cutting a non moving target made of plastic and water is a sure way to mastery of the sword?

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 08, 2012, 05:16:07 PM
I always find it amusing when I hear complaints about things which drag down the "quality" of PD.com.  I mean, the Church WAS basically founded on the practice of clopping people in the head with large bags of wet stuff.  The only friction arises from those who let it rot for so long, the stench overrides the physical pleasure of the blow itself.  If the recipient passes out from the odor before they hit the ground from the BLOW, well where's the fun in THAT?  If they don't lie there and kick convulsively like a big roach for a while after they land, why, I feel so CHEATED.  They just ain't makin' rubes like they used to.

No more Hungarian imports.  They just don't hold up the way the domestic stuff does.

Up the revolution you assbags,
Commander Ringmeat

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 04:44:36 PM
I PM'd Holist and offered to tell him what went wrong for him here, and he decided to instead play amateur psychologist with me (again).

Which sort of makes explaining what happened redundant.   :lulz:

He's fucking hopeless.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on October 10, 2012, 04:47:14 PM

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 04:44:36 PM
I PM'd Holist and offered to tell him what went wrong for him here, and he decided to instead play amateur psychologist with me (again).

Which sort of makes explaining what happened redundant.   :lulz:

He's fucking hopeless.

Futile exercise in futility is futile.  :lulz:

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 10, 2012, 04:48:35 PM
Obviouzzly, we haff here a caze off unrrrezzolffed Fater izzzuez...
                   \
(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=i.4780849110451447&pid=1.9)

Quote from: holist on October 10, 2012, 05:09:24 PM
Dear Reverend, would you be so kind as to quote our PM exchange here, just to clarify matters?

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 04:49:38 PM
But he's a bitter 40-something aspie who has failed at everything he's ever done (the England thing, for example), and he spends all his time believing in fairy tales about water molecules.  Instead of, you know, finding regular work to support his family.

Quote from: holist on October 10, 2012, 05:13:10 PM

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 04:49:38 PM
But he's a bitter 40-something aspie who has failed at everything he's ever done (the England thing, for example), and he spends all his time believing in fairy tales about water molecules.  Instead of, you know, finding regular work to support his family.

Oh yearhs!! My poor children! Them is starving, unsupported by their fathor! They cringe in ditches!

You poor, silly man.

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:12:46 PM

Quote from: holist on October 10, 2012, 05:09:24 PM
Dear Reverend, would you be so kind as to quote our PM exchange here, just to clarify matters?

Nope.  But you can. 

Now, thing is, we're talking ABOUT you, not TO you.

So fuck off.

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:19:46 PM
Incidentally, I reserve the right to post screen shots if you change anything.

Quote from: holist on October 10, 2012, 05:22:34 PM

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:19:46 PM
Incidentally, I reserve the right to post screen shots if you change anything.

As if you couldn't actually change things and THEN produce screen-shots... we're not exactly on an "equal footing" here...  :lulz:

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 10, 2012, 05:25:02 PM
(http://www.selectcouponprogram.com/grocery-coupons/images/Pledge%20Wipes.jpg)

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:27:25 PM

Quote from: holist on October 10, 2012, 05:22:34 PM

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:19:46 PM
Incidentally, I reserve the right to post screen shots if you change anything.

As if you couldn't actually change things and THEN produce screen-shots... we're not exactly on an "equal footing" here...  :lulz:

I can't change it.  I do not have access to the database.  This can be confirmed by Cain, Faust, Triple Zero, or ECH.  However, your insinuation that I would use the admin button to "cheat" has been noted, and has given me just one more reason to loathe you.  After all, dishonest people like yourself tend to assume that nobody else has any honor, either.

But what you posted seems accurate, so it's not a big deal at the moment, is it?

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:27:25 PM
But what you posted seems accurate, so it's not a big deal at the moment, is it?

Quote from: holist on October 10, 2012, 06:13:13 PM

Quote from: Man Yellow on October 10, 2012, 05:27:25 PM
But what you posted seems accurate, so it's not a big deal at the moment, is it?

No it isn't.

And it isn't even a big deal that you first threaten me with screenshots should I change anything, then, when I suggest that you could change the screenshots, take offence and offer the testimony of your mates.

Your aspie acquaintance.

Quote from: Man YellowI did not send you a purchase order for counseling.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 05:17:44 AM
Those are pools.

Maybe one of these days I'll learn to swim. Probably when the ice caps melt and Boston is submerged.  :lulz:

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:14:06 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Fuck's sake man, you said you would not be offended if others came out of the closet... but you sure ain't acting like it!

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on November 30, 2012, 05:29:19 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 05:17:44 AM
Those are pools.

Maybe one of these days I'll learn to swim. Probably when the ice caps melt and Boston is submerged.  :lulz:

Swimming is fun!

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:18:05 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:14:06 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Fuck's sake man, you said you would not be offended if others came out of the closet... but you sure ain't acting like it!

:lulz:

Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on November 30, 2012, 06:33:40 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

By the way, when I saw in your sig that holist thinks your album sucks, I immediately thought "That's an endorsement if I ever heard one!"  And I will be purchasing a copy when I remember where my moneys card is.

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 07:29:26 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:18:05 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:14:06 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Fuck's sake man, you said you would not be offended if others came out of the closet... but you sure ain't acting like it!

:lulz:

Like okay, you laugh... but why do you laugh?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 12:40:50 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 07:29:26 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:18:05 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:14:06 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Fuck's sake man, you said you would not be offended if others came out of the closet... but you sure ain't acting like it!

:lulz:

Like okay, you laugh... but why do you laugh?

Because you're not others. And I'm pretty sure your critique on my music was unsolicited. I can't remember for sure though cuz I was drunk. Because I was really really bored.

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 02:03:18 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 12:40:50 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 07:29:26 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:18:05 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:14:06 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Fuck's sake man, you said you would not be offended if others came out of the closet... but you sure ain't acting like it!

:lulz:

Like okay, you laugh... but why do you laugh?

Because you're not others. And I'm pretty sure your critique on my music was unsolicited. I can't remember for sure though cuz I was drunk. Because I was really really bored.

Well hey! So you put an advert for your music in your sig, but you figgured nobody wuz gonna take that as an invitation to comment on your music??

I think you were wrong there.

:lulz:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 02:08:45 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 02:03:18 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 12:40:50 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 07:29:26 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:18:05 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:14:06 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:11:42 AM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 06:08:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 29, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
I want to address the root problem though. Im bored with myself.

Congrats on realising that. Best of luck.

Thanks, maybe it will help me write music that meets with your approval.

Fuck's sake man, you said you would not be offended if others came out of the closet... but you sure ain't acting like it!

:lulz:

Like okay, you laugh... but why do you laugh?

Because you're not others. And I'm pretty sure your critique on my music was unsolicited. I can't remember for sure though cuz I was drunk. Because I was really really bored.

Well hey! So you put an advert for your music in your sig, but you figgured nobody wuz gonna take that as an invitation to comment on your music??

I think you were wrong there.

:lulz:

Have you ever even paused to wonder why nobody likes you?

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
Never had to, most people like me.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
Never had to, most people like me.

Keep on believing, Sunshine.

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:24:28 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
Never had to, most people like me.

Keep on believing, Sunshine.

I don't have to, I get to test the theory empirically with great regularity.


The only reproduceable evidence that anyone here can see does not support your conclusion.
:lulz:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 03:25:11 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:24:28 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 03:18:23 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
Never had to, most people like me.

Keep on believing, Sunshine.

I don't have to, I get to test the theory empirically with great regularity.


The only reproduceable evidence that anyone here can see does not support your conclusion.
:lulz:

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:29:41 PM
Roger so worked up he fucked up the quotations, ITT.

:lulz:

Now tell me I'm analysing you again, big man! Oh, and swear some. Let off steam.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 03:30:34 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:29:41 PM
Roger so worked up he fucked up the quotations, ITT.

:lulz:

Now tell me I'm analysing you again, big man! Oh, and swear some. Let off steam.

:lolchix:

Quote from: Elder Iptuous on November 30, 2012, 06:20:57 PM
wut?  i'm not a mod. i haven't the means, personally.

Quote from: Elder Iptuous on November 30, 2012, 06:20:57 PM
justification?  the mods are very conservative with the ban hammer. few rules get it.  social infractions just get social reactions.

Quote from: Elder Iptuous on November 30, 2012, 06:20:57 PM
what's stopping us as a community? tradition.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
Holist- do you want to be banned?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
Is that what youre trying to go for?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
Is that why youre being a dick to everyone?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
Is that why you have such a boner for roger?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
If you dont want to be here anymore just stop showing up.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 06:37:19 PM
Heh.  I didn't expect any class from you, and I was of course not disappointed.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 06:37:19 PM
I did, however, expect you to be called on mocking an apology from one member to another, and in this I was disappointed.  However, it at least shows me where I stand, and I guess I have you to thank for that.  So thanks.  Also, die of cancer.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 06:37:19 PM
But before you do, make sure to spread loads of your "wisdom" around, because that apparently is what is in demand.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 06:55:37 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:52:54 PM
Sorry roger- i thought i had called him out on it.

You called him out on wanting to be banned, as far as I can tell.  That's also what Iptuous did.

And rightfully so.

But there's something apparently wrong with my head, because I figured the more egregious thing would have been the fact that he was attacking an honest apology and explanation, not that he commented that he hasn't been banned yet.

Must be me.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:59:34 PM
... The fact that he attacked your apology ... ... why is he a dick to people in general and you specifically.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 07:07:30 PM
So heres the thing holist- ive noticed that both with me and roger that you like to take a swipe at people when theyre... I dont know the word. But you took the opportunity to take a swipe at my music for no reason while i was trying to figure out what to do about my blues. And then you take a swipe at roger when hes trying to figure out if his sense of humor still works here and such. Now yeah your kind of a dick so your going to swipe at people anyway. But can you just do us all a favor and butt the fuck out if someone is doing a bit of soul searching or legitimately trying to get some sort of understanding across?

You can still be a dick and not kick someone while theyre down.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 07:11:18 PM

Quote from: Elder Iptuous on November 30, 2012, 07:08:27 PM
i know full well that you can chew him up yourself.

Yes, this is true.  I never need backup of any kind, or any sort of idea that I'm not on my own when it comes to this sort of thing.

Carry on.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 07:24:55 PM
I've been thinking about this, and my conclusion is this:  Get mad at the sun for rising.  Holist can't help being a vulture, it's his nature.  It's not what he does, it's what he IS.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 07:33:28 PM
... I was upset ...

Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on November 30, 2012, 07:41:58 PM
A bit of both, likely. Often bullied, maybe when he was younger. And/or highly insecure with a persecution complex. The only way to set things right is to, naturally, try to stomp on those he perceives to be weaker or in a vunerable position. He is threatened by strong, intelligent personalities, such as Roger. He is threatened by people trying to pursue their desires and/or make something of their lives, such as Twid. He is threatened by the group dynamic between many people here (not to be confused with "group think") that he didn't automatically become a part of once he joined. So he must seek out weak points and jab at them because that is much easier than addressing any actual issues and WILL SHOW THOSE PEOPLE.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 01, 2012, 06:47:22 AM
You wanna contribute to the discussion in the other thread, feel free. You wanna keep up your attention-whoring, those posts are going in here.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 01, 2012, 06:53:59 AM
It's attention whoring. You appear to be a narcissist. And you're definitely a bit of a bore.

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 05:15:46 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 30, 2012, 03:30:34 PM

Quote from: holist on November 30, 2012, 03:29:41 PM
Roger so worked up he fucked up the quotations, ITT.

:lulz:

Now tell me I'm analysing you again, big man! Oh, and swear some. Let off steam.

:lolchix:

What now?

Quote from: holist on December 01, 2012, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 06:59:34 PM
... The fact that he attacked your apology ... ... why is he a dick to people in general and you specifically.

It came to me in a flash, like vision, screaming across the sky!

Twid! Reading skillz! You could do worse than invest in some of those.

Quote from: holist on December 01, 2012, 06:37:00 AM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on November 30, 2012, 07:07:30 PM
So heres the thing holist- ive noticed that both with me and roger that you like to take a swipe at people when theyre... I dont know the word. But you took the opportunity to take a swipe at my music for no reason while i was trying to figure out what to do about my blues. And then you take a swipe at roger when hes trying to figure out if his sense of humor still works here and such. Now yeah your kind of a dick so your going to swipe at people anyway. But can you just do us all a favor and butt the fuck out if someone is doing a bit of soul searching or legitimately trying to get some sort of understanding across?

You can still be a dick and not kick someone while theyre down.

Twid, are you fuckin' stupid, or what?

QuoteI have been trying to put the most magnanimious interpretation on everything I read here for days, but I am hard pressed for a different conclusion.

QuoteAs you obsessed about your precious alky boredom,

Quoteyou yourself mentioned that you are dissatisfied with the way the music thing is working out in your life that you are not sure about it, etc.

QuoteI thought this would be a good opportunity to break the news to you: your band is not particularly talented, the music you produce is without interesting distinguishing features (twelve to a dozen, as they say)

Quoteyour understanding (as a band) of harmony, melody and rhythm is minimal at best: music may not be the field for you, despite the fact that you decided to hang most of your personality on 'being a musician' for a few years. I just shortened this to "your music sucks" for dramatic effect.

QuoteYou in fact have three decent, bipedal choices: a) stop the music thing altogether, b) wise up on this music thing, there's plenty of publicly available information that would improve your act no end, c)accept that you are a hobbyist: continue playing whatever you feel like playing, but accept that you are not great at it and this is mostly for your own amusement.

QuoteAnd, for the record, I am not mean. But, after all those years, tit-for-tat is still a great way of playing.  :lulz:

Quote from: holist on December 01, 2012, 06:50:20 AM

Actually, I was usually desperately lonely as a child.

QuoteActually, I am not insecure. Actually, I never stomp on people I perceive to be weaker or vulnerable, quite the contrary.

QuoteActually, I am attracted to strong, intelligent personalities.

QuoteActually, I am pursuing my desires and making something of my life. Unlike Twid, who is wallowing in self-pity right now, though he has the potential to stop it.

QuoteI did make the mistake of thinking I can just walk into the "group dynamic", but I realised my mistake (epiphany no. 2, I think). I seek out weak points and jab at them because that is often a surprisingly effective way of addressing actual issues.

QuoteI am not going to analyse you. But only because it's a lovely saturday morning, the sun is shining, and off to band practice I go.

Quote from: holist on December 01, 2012, 06:45:29 AM
Ah, a digital version of the stocks!

Quote from: holist on December 01, 2012, 07:01:23 AM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 01, 2012, 06:53:59 AM
It's attention whoring. You appear to be a narcissist. And you're definitely a bit of a bore.

Well you appear to be a sociopath. A tight-lipped, very clever one.

But I don't think you are. You do demand respect with almost every word, though. Particularly when you say you don't demand respect.

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on November 30, 2012, 11:38:36 PM
No, I think he's a bully. You can tell by the pattern of who he picks on: women, and people who seem to feel down or at a disadvantage. There are a couple of people he conspicuously doesn't pick on, and the contrast is pretty stark. ECH, for example. But he's gone after me, Garbo, Freeky, Phox, Twid when Twid was feeling low, and you when you apologized, which makes sense if you consider that he apparently considers admitting (or even considering) that you might be wrong to be a sign of weakness.

Totally consistent with bully behavior.

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 01, 2012, 03:39:18 AM

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 01, 2012, 02:50:33 AM
Go take a couple of implicit association tests (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit).

Well, it turns out I have a preference for Other People over Arab Muslims (I'll have to warn the people who go to my mosque that they scare me, lol).  But the good news is I got "Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between African American and European American."  Oh, and apparently I think Native Americans are foreigners even though they're... Native... Americans...

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on November 29, 2012, 03:53:35 AM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on November 27, 2012, 06:19:13 PM
Today's conversation in Open Bar contained a passing comment that spurred this thought:

If your own culture is so full of bad signal that you don't actually WANT it, what do you do next? What if that's the motivation behind a lot of modern-day cultural appropriation... not "oh look, that's neat!" but "GET ME THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!"?

What the hell do you do if you find your culture of origin so repugnant that you want nothing more than to repudiate it and walk away?

Short answer: You do just that. You can live in a place with a dominant cultural paradigm without actively participating in that paradigm. Passive participation may be unavoidable, but you don't have to buy into it or perpetuate it. Or you move to a place with a culture that more closely reflects your values if you have the means to do so.

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on November 29, 2012, 03:59:51 AM
So after you stand up and say FUCK THIS SHIT I WANT NO PART OF IT, how does that affect and shape your personality?

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on November 29, 2012, 03:59:51 AM
In many ways is it not more appropriate to reach for ideals and standards that you do agree with than to simply reject the ones you don't agree with?

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on November 29, 2012, 03:59:51 AM
What about community? What about finding the others and trying to create a movement large enough to change the destructive elements of the dominant culture?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 01, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
Dear Holist,

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 01, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
Stop spagging up my "I'm tired of life what to do" thread unless you have something constructive to say.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 01, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
Roger gets a pass because, hey, guess what, he actually calls me to see if I'm doing ok, and he stays on the line with me to make sure of it. No shit. Roger is my best friend on this board aside from Phox and LMNO. Providence are pretty damn good too, but based on volume of contact, that's the triumvirate. I actually like Roger spagging up my threads because that usually means he's sticking up for me.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 01, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
You're just some douche who doesn't like my music for some unknown reason. And before the other day, just some douche who I didn't pay attention to, but you had to add that other thing.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 01, 2012, 07:57:00 AM
So, kindly fuck off.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 01, 2012, 08:42:09 AM
Says the non-English speaker.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 02, 2012, 07:30:06 PM
Serious question, holist:

If you have no interest in socializing with this community (and it's obvious that you don't) then why are you still here?

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
Dear Nephew Twiddleton, you're sexy when you're all het up.

Quote
I did offer something constructive, it was this: your music is currently untenable, so either find something else to do with your life in order to reduce the boredom level, or learn to play. Learn to tune your instruments and get that woman some singing lessons, for fuck's sake. Although you would probably say it was all on purpose, rest assured that to anyone with a halfway musical ear, it is blindingly obvious that it isn't.

Quote

Translation: Gay for Roger!  :lulz:

Quote

Well I did actually tell you about some of the reason, only your butthurt stopped you from letting it into your head, so instead you decided to stick your fingers in your ears and go "nya-nya-nya nyaaaa-nyaaa". You really have no class.

Quote

Let me get this straight: you have a problem (reading what I say raises your blood-pressure, gets you dangerously close to your self-doubt button or just raises unpleasant feelings in your blessed little psyche), and you want me, of all people to do something about it? There's even an ignore button, with a few clicks of your mouse you could make it so you'd hardly ever have to read me again. But no. Why not? Is my question to you, friend.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 02, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
So you want to socialize with this community but you don't want to have to observe the norms and customs of this community?

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 02, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
Let me know how that works out for you. As for your verbal pugilism, it's third-rate and won't get better here since, y'know, nobody wants to be your sparring partner.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 02, 2012, 08:21:14 PM

Quote
I did offer something constructive, it was this: your music is currently untenable, so either find something else to do with your life in order to reduce the boredom level, or learn to play. Learn to tune your instruments and get that woman some singing lessons, for fuck's sake. Although you would probably say it was all on purpose, rest assured that to anyone with a halfway musical ear, it is blindingly obvious that it isn't.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 02, 2012, 08:21:14 PM

Quote

Well I did actually tell you about some of the reason, only your butthurt stopped you from letting it into your head, so instead you decided to stick your fingers in your ears and go "nya-nya-nya nyaaaa-nyaaa". You really have no class.

You haven't though. Any attempts at appearing to have a valid criticism show that either you're making shit up or you don't know what you're talking about. If you don't like my music you don't like my music. But you started off saying it sucks. If you did have any sense of how to properly socialize with people you would have said something along the lines of "I don't like it, here's what I didn't like about it."

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 02, 2012, 08:21:14 PM
Generally I've never had to hit the ignore button with you. I really didn't have much reason to say a whole lot to you until you decided to tell me my music sucked out of nowhere.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 02, 2012, 08:45:08 PM
WEll, I'm listening to your music now. And, I'll give you that while you are a capable musician, it's clear that your criticism of my music is a matter of tastes.

So, I gotta ask then, are you basing your judgment off of the album or live footage taken 2 years ago? Because sloppy playing would be valid if it were the live footage. Tuning is not. Vocal ability is not.

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 08:47:36 PM
I appreciate the point, I think I understand the point and I shall investigate the point. I listened to stuff I got to when I clicked your sig.

However, this will have to wait a few days, sorry.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on December 02, 2012, 08:45:08 PM
WEll, I'm listening to your music now. And, I'll give you that while you are a capable musician, it's clear that your criticism of my music is a matter of tastes.

So, I gotta ask then, are you basing your judgment off of the album or live footage taken 2 years ago? Because sloppy playing would be valid if it were the live footage. Tuning is not. Vocal ability is not.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 03, 2012, 08:00:39 AM

Quote from: holist on December 03, 2012, 06:33:58 AM

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on December 03, 2012, 03:06:20 AM
I've since learned to make an effort to think about my thoughts, words, and reactions.

Well actually, there is still plenty of room for improvement.

Do you need to go back in your hole?

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
Translation: Gay for Roger!  :lulz:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2012, 01:53:07 PM

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
Translation: Gay for Roger!  :lulz:

But isn't everyone?

Quote from: holist on December 03, 2012, 02:04:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2012, 01:53:07 PM

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
Translation: Gay for Roger!  :lulz:

But isn't everyone?

No.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2012, 02:10:22 PM

Quote from: holist on December 03, 2012, 02:04:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 03, 2012, 01:53:07 PM

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
Translation: Gay for Roger!  :lulz:

But isn't everyone?

No.

LIES.  I am one sexy little princess, and don't let anyone tell you differently.

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 02:36:10 AM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 02:27:48 AM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:15:07 PM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 02:36:10 AM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 02:27:48 AM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?

I'm not. Perhaps you're asking: why are you being so harsh here? The answer to that I am borrowing from Louis Armstrong:

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 06:01:09 AM
God wasn't always a great guy.  [...]

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 06:01:09 AM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 01:50:09 AM
You make a really profound and poignant point, but I'm wondering if you've heard the Good News about Roger? He hates for you and me, so that we can have eternal less-hatefulness!

God wasn't always a great guy.  He used to be a bit of an asshole, to be honest.  His only job was to protect a single desert tribe.  And boy did He love it.  Butchering his tribe's enemies.  Killing firstborn sons.  Destroying entire towns with pillars of fire.  Turning people into salt.  Demanding people sacrifice their children for shits and giggles.  Hell, He even flooded the earth once, almost wiping out the entire world's population, just to make a point.  To say He was filled with hate is a bit of an understatement.

Then something happened.  The Romans marched on ancient Judea.  The people tried to defend themselves, but their weak attempts were nothing compared to the might of the Empire.  The tribe had thought God was going to protect them.  They thought He was going to destroy their enemy like He loved so much to do.  But He was nowhere to be seen.  He didn't even show up to point and laugh like He sometimes did.  God had flown the coop.

A few decades later God returned literally in the flesh.  But He had changed.  He was no longer filled with hate.  He was now filled with love.  He no longer liked to smash his enemies.  He now wanted to give them a hug.  He used to believe you couldn't punish someone quickly enough.  He now believed everyone deserved mercy.  God had become a lovey-dovey hippie.

What had happened?

There are whispers that it has to do with how Jesus came into being.  You see, the incarnation of God into this world is a pretty complicated process as one might expect.  Just like you can't win the Daytona 500 the very first time you drive a car, you can't perfectly merge a divine entity with a physical body on the very first try.  It takes practice, is what I'm saying.

But God is omniscient and omnipotent and therefore able to do it on the first try, you might be asking yourself.  Look at it this way.  When Satan told God that the only reason he thought Job was pious was because life was going so well for him, what did God say?  He didn't agree, but He didn't know for sure so He allowed Satan to screw him in the ass a few times over to test the theory.  Now if God didn't know what was in the heart of a simple-minded country bumpkin, how the hell would He know how to incarnate Himself into the physical world on the first try?

What I'm trying to say is God needed to practice before the big show.  And how would He practice such a thing?  He'd try to incarnate Himself into the world, of course.  A test run.  So the Good Lord found a virgin and knocked her up.  But something went wrong.  While His essence did merge with the flesh of the child, it wasn't a complete merging.  The physical body of the child absorbed His Divine Anger.  Then it stopped.  The rest of His essence remained outside the bounds of the physical world.

Now devoid of His anger, God took pity on the virgin carrying His child.  He transformed her into a member of a species which He had previously blessed with His divine power, the noble Yeti, and placed her within the untamed wilderness of a land that would one day become known as Canada.

God created a new plan, fixing the mistakes He had made with the original plan.  This plan had a new goal in mind.  You see, God originally wanted to incarnate Himself into the world so that He could absorb the hate within man's hearts.  Doing such a thing would make Him even more hateful and therefore stronger.  With more power He could become the head deity of other tribes which would give Him even more power.  More power meant He could get fuck with more tribes.  And thus the cycle would've gone on indefinitely.  God wanted to start His own franchise.  A divine McDonald's that fucked you over instead of giving you food.  But with His Divine Anger gone He decided that He wanted to remove the sins of man instead, allowing them to be together with Him in one giant circle jerk for all of eternity. 

Of course, even that plan was flawed.  While God was coming up with it His tribe was being mowed down by Greeks and then Romans.  So He was a bit surprised by how they welcomed Him when He finally did come into the physical world.  It turns out they were a bit bitter.  And the Romans were more than willing to solve that problem for them.

As for God's firstborn son?  Nobody knows what happened to him.  Not even God Himself.  Nobody knows whether he's alive or dead.  Or even if he survived long enough to be born into the world in the first place.  But if he is alive. . . Then that means there's a Holy Man filled with Divine Anger somewhere out there. . . And only the man himself could know what he's doing.  Is he spewing rage on a busy street corner?  Is he the iron-fisted dictator of a third world country? Or maybe he's a fire-and-brimstone preacher leading an apocalyptic cult?  Perhaps he's innately attracted to the environment from which his Father's tribe originated and therefore dwells deep within some desert where no man dare look?  We may never know.

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 04:16:30 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:15:07 PM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 02:36:10 AM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 02:27:48 AM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?

I'm not. Perhaps you're asking: why are you being so harsh here? The answer to that I am borrowing from Louis Armstrong:

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

That was harsh?
:lulz:

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:31:54 PM

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 04:16:30 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:15:07 PM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 02:36:10 AM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 02:27:48 AM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?

I'm not. Perhaps you're asking: why are you being so harsh here? The answer to that I am borrowing from Louis Armstrong:

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

That was harsh?
:lulz:

No, not for my tastes, but, were you hurt?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

The bitch deserves it.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:44:28 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

The bitch deserves it.

Now nice.

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:44:28 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

The bitch deserves it.

Now nice.

Sorry, but no. If it hurts that woman, I will up my comma quotient.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:54:52 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:44:28 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

The bitch deserves it.

Now nice.

Sorry, but no. If it hurts that woman, I will up my comma quotient.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Now she's a woman?  A minute ago, she was a "bitch".

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 05:10:41 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:54:52 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:44:28 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

The bitch deserves it.

Now nice.

Sorry, but no. If it hurts that woman, I will up my comma quotient.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Now she's a woman?  A minute ago, she was a "bitch".

In the sense of "woman I dislike"...

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 05:40:39 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 05:10:41 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:54:52 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:44:28 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 04, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Your comma usage hurts Queen Elizabeth II.

The bitch deserves it.

Now nice.

Sorry, but no. If it hurts that woman, I will up my comma quotient.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Now she's a woman?  A minute ago, she was a "bitch".

In the sense of "woman I dislike"...

I see.

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:15:07 PM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 02:36:10 AM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 02:27:48 AM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?

I'm not. Perhaps you're asking: why are you being so harsh here? The answer to that I am borrowing from Louis Armstrong:

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:31:54 PM

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 04:16:30 PM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 04:15:07 PM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 02:36:10 AM

Quote from: holist on December 04, 2012, 02:27:48 AM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 01:18:36 AM
Alty wrote a fucking fantastic OP that brought up a really interesting point.

Oh really? And what was it? I've read it the fifth time, and it still seems he was simply whinging. But perhaps I am missing something: could you reformulate the "really interesting point" of the OP, please?

Why are you such a jerk all the time?

I'm not. Perhaps you're asking: why are you being so harsh here? The answer to that I am borrowing from Louis Armstrong:

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

That was harsh?
:lulz:

No, not for my tastes, but, were you hurt?

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I have a confession you guys.

Think about this for a second.

Hungarian.
Polar Bear.
Ukulele.
A history of newagey, mush-brained gobbledygook.

I trolled PD so hard I trolled myself.

I am holist.

Also, I may be poptart. It difficult to say.

I'm 85% sure I'm Daruko.

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I have a confession you guys.

Think about this for a second.

Hungarian.
Polar Bear.
Ukulele.
A history of newagey, mush-brained gobbledygook.

I trolled PD so hard I trolled myself.

I am holist.

Also, I may be poptart. It difficult to say.

I'm 85% sure I'm Daruko.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 05, 2012, 02:26:08 AM

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I have a confession you guys.

Think about this for a second.

Hungarian.
Polar Bear.
Ukulele.
A history of newagey, mush-brained gobbledygook.

I trolled PD so hard I trolled myself.

I am holist.

Also, I may be poptart. It difficult to say.

I'm 85% sure I'm Daruko.

But were you CU?  :lulz:

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 04:29:05 PM

Quote from: Running From Ghosts on December 04, 2012, 06:01:09 AM

Quote from: FROTISTED FUDGE CAK on December 04, 2012, 01:50:09 AM
You make a really profound and poignant point, but I'm wondering if you've heard the Good News about Roger? He hates for you and me, so that we can have eternal less-hatefulness!

God wasn't always a great guy.  He used to be a bit of an asshole, to be honest.  His only job was to protect a single desert tribe.  And boy did He love it.  Butchering his tribe's enemies.  Killing firstborn sons.  Destroying entire towns with pillars of fire.  Turning people into salt.  Demanding people sacrifice their children for shits and giggles.  Hell, He even flooded the earth once, almost wiping out the entire world's population, just to make a point.  To say He was filled with hate is a bit of an understatement.

Then something happened.  The Romans marched on ancient Judea.  The people tried to defend themselves, but their weak attempts were nothing compared to the might of the Empire.  The tribe had thought God was going to protect them.  They thought He was going to destroy their enemy like He loved so much to do.  But He was nowhere to be seen.  He didn't even show up to point and laugh like He sometimes did.  God had flown the coop.

A few decades later God returned literally in the flesh.  But He had changed.  He was no longer filled with hate.  He was now filled with love.  He no longer liked to smash his enemies.  He now wanted to give them a hug.  He used to believe you couldn't punish someone quickly enough.  He now believed everyone deserved mercy.  God had become a lovey-dovey hippie.

What had happened?

There are whispers that it has to do with how Jesus came into being.  You see, the incarnation of God into this world is a pretty complicated process as one might expect.  Just like you can't win the Daytona 500 the very first time you drive a car, you can't perfectly merge a divine entity with a physical body on the very first try.  It takes practice, is what I'm saying.

But God is omniscient and omnipotent and therefore able to do it on the first try, you might be asking yourself.  Look at it this way.  When Satan told God that the only reason he thought Job was pious was because life was going so well for him, what did God say?  He didn't agree, but He didn't know for sure so He allowed Satan to screw him in the ass a few times over to test the theory.  Now if God didn't know what was in the heart of a simple-minded country bumpkin, how the hell would He know how to incarnate Himself into the physical world on the first try?

What I'm trying to say is God needed to practice before the big show.  And how would He practice such a thing?  He'd try to incarnate Himself into the world, of course.  A test run.  So the Good Lord found a virgin and knocked her up.  But something went wrong.  While His essence did merge with the flesh of the child, it wasn't a complete merging.  The physical body of the child absorbed His Divine Anger.  Then it stopped.  The rest of His essence remained outside the bounds of the physical world.

Now devoid of His anger, God took pity on the virgin carrying His child.  He transformed her into a member of a species which He had previously blessed with His divine power, the noble Yeti, and placed her within the untamed wilderness of a land that would one day become known as Canada.

God created a new plan, fixing the mistakes He had made with the original plan.  This plan had a new goal in mind.  You see, God originally wanted to incarnate Himself into the world so that He could absorb the hate within man's hearts.  Doing such a thing would make Him even more hateful and therefore stronger.  With more power He could become the head deity of other tribes which would give Him even more power.  More power meant He could get fuck with more tribes.  And thus the cycle would've gone on indefinitely.  God wanted to start His own franchise.  A divine McDonald's that fucked you over instead of giving you food.  But with His Divine Anger gone He decided that He wanted to remove the sins of man instead, allowing them to be together with Him in one giant circle jerk for all of eternity. 

Of course, even that plan was flawed.  While God was coming up with it His tribe was being mowed down by Greeks and then Romans.  So He was a bit surprised by how they welcomed Him when He finally did come into the physical world.  It turns out they were a bit bitter.  And the Romans were more than willing to solve that problem for them.

As for God's firstborn son?  Nobody knows what happened to him.  Not even God Himself.  Nobody knows whether he's alive or dead.  Or even if he survived long enough to be born into the world in the first place.  But if he is alive. . . Then that means there's a Holy Man filled with Divine Anger somewhere out there. . . And only the man himself could know what he's doing.  Is he spewing rage on a busy street corner?  Is he the iron-fisted dictator of a third world country? Or maybe he's a fire-and-brimstone preacher leading an apocalyptic cult?  Perhaps he's innately attracted to the environment from which his Father's tribe originated and therefore dwells deep within some desert where no man dare look?  We may never know.

HOSANNA

HOSANNA TO THE HIGHEST!

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
Thanks.

Before I wrote the OP, I knew it would come down to definitions, so I checked wikipedia and found:

QuoteHope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Despair is the opposite of hope.

This just confirmed that, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Except, I suppose I'm arguing that it is more often than not a FORCED emotional state and that when it is overtly forced it is nothing but bad.

This thread is actually a great example.

I don't continue to post threads on PD.com because I hope it will garner some kudos or lead to an intriguing conversation. It often does, but I certainly won't count on it. If the thread gets derailed, if a thousand threads get derailed, it will not stop me from posting because I do so for its own sake.

Maybe I'm thinking of a Buddhist sense of non-attachment. I can enjoy posting because I have no hope it will turn into anything.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:22:47 AM

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
Thanks.

Before I wrote the OP, I knew it would come down to definitions, so I checked wikipedia and found:

QuoteHope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Despair is the opposite of hope.

This just confirmed that, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Except, I suppose I'm arguing that it is more often than not a FORCED emotional state and that when it is overtly forced it is nothing but bad.

This thread is actually a great example.

I don't continue to post threads on PD.com because I hope it will garner some kudos or lead to an intriguing conversation. It often does, but I certainly won't count on it. If the thread gets derailed, if a thousand threads get derailed, it will not stop me from posting because I do so for its own sake.

Maybe I'm thinking of a Buddhist sense of non-attachment. I can enjoy posting because I have no hope it will turn into anything.

Oh, so you're saying hoping without actually doing something not pointless to achieve what you hope for is bad?

Profound, that.

And you're also saying doing things without hoping to achieve something with them, "just for laughs", so to say, is good?

Also profound.

Alty, genius!

Only thing is, and come clean now: do you have a problem with doing things while hoping to achieve something with them?

Is that alright with you?

Just checkin'.

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:23:42 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:22:47 AM

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
Thanks.

Before I wrote the OP, I knew it would come down to definitions, so I checked wikipedia and found:

QuoteHope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Despair is the opposite of hope.

This just confirmed that, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Except, I suppose I'm arguing that it is more often than not a FORCED emotional state and that when it is overtly forced it is nothing but bad.

This thread is actually a great example.

I don't continue to post threads on PD.com because I hope it will garner some kudos or lead to an intriguing conversation. It often does, but I certainly won't count on it. If the thread gets derailed, if a thousand threads get derailed, it will not stop me from posting because I do so for its own sake.

Maybe I'm thinking of a Buddhist sense of non-attachment. I can enjoy posting because I have no hope it will turn into anything.

Oh, so you're saying hoping without actually doing something not pointless to achieve what you hope for is bad?

Profound, that.

And you're also saying doing things without hoping to achieve something with them, "just for laughs", so to say, is good?

Also profound.

Alty, genius!

Only thing is, and come clean now: do you have a problem with doing things while hoping to achieve something with them?

Is that alright with you?

Just checkin'.

What a dick.

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:31:01 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

Did you honestly come about it honestly?

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:22:47 AM

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
Thanks.

Before I wrote the OP, I knew it would come down to definitions, so I checked wikipedia and found:

QuoteHope is the emotional state which promotes the belief in a positive outcome related to events and circumstances in one's life. Despair is the opposite of hope.

This just confirmed that, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Except, I suppose I'm arguing that it is more often than not a FORCED emotional state and that when it is overtly forced it is nothing but bad.

This thread is actually a great example.

I don't continue to post threads on PD.com because I hope it will garner some kudos or lead to an intriguing conversation. It often does, but I certainly won't count on it. If the thread gets derailed, if a thousand threads get derailed, it will not stop me from posting because I do so for its own sake.

Maybe I'm thinking of a Buddhist sense of non-attachment. I can enjoy posting because I have no hope it will turn into anything.

Oh, so you're saying hoping without actually doing something not pointless to achieve what you hope for is bad?

Profound, that.

And you're also saying doing things without hoping to achieve something with them, "just for laughs", so to say, is good?

Also profound.

Alty, genius!

Only thing is, and come clean now: do you have a problem with doing things while hoping to achieve something with them?

Is that alright with you?

Just checkin'.

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:36:16 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Does that mean you guys know where my keys are too?

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:36:56 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:36:16 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Does that mean you guys know where my keys are too?

I will talk about my keys and my wife in whatever manner I desire.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:36:56 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:36:16 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Does that mean you guys know where my keys are too?

I will talk about my keys and my wife in whatever manner I desire.

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:39:02 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:36:56 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:36:16 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Does that mean you guys know where my keys are too?

I will talk about my keys and my wife in whatever manner I desire.

But it's not FUNNY.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:39:50 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:39:02 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:36:56 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:36:16 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Does that mean you guys know where my keys are too?

I will talk about my keys and my wife in whatever manner I desire.

But it's not FUNNY.

That's not a valid criticism.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:39:50 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:39:02 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:36:56 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:36:16 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:34:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:29:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:26:04 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:23:10 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Actually, it's my name.

It's MY name.

No, it's mine.

People trying to steal my name?  That's the luck of the straw, I guess.  I'm not whinging about it though.

I'M not stealing anything.

Me, neither. I came about it honestly.

There's only one holist here who laughs at the idea of a husband asking his wife where his keys are.  And that's me.

Look, I don't want any trouble, but stop stealing my keys so you can lose them.

Does that mean you guys know where my keys are too?

I will talk about my keys and my wife in whatever manner I desire.

But it's not FUNNY.

That's not a valid criticism.

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:41:14 AM
You guys just don't understand.  You see, it illustrates the mundane conversations between spouses.  Get it?

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:41:14 AM
You guys just don't understand.  You see, it illustrates the mundane conversations between spouses.  Get it?

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:43:07 AM

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:41:14 AM
You guys just don't understand.  You see, it illustrates the mundane conversations between spouses.  Get it?

Of course I get it. It's just not good. It's an amateurish effort.

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:41:14 AM
You guys just don't understand.  You see, it illustrates the mundane conversations between spouses.  Get it?

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:47:13 AM
It is clearly a meta joke commenting on the lack of humor inherent in speaking with women.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:47:13 AM
It's clearly a meta-joke commenting on the lack of humour inherent in speaking with women.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:49:09 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:47:13 AM
It's clearly a meta-joke commenting on the lack of humour inherent in speaking with women.

I'm sure you won't mind. I made some edits for you.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:50:21 AM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:49:09 AM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 06:47:13 AM
It's clearly a meta-joke commenting on the lack of humour inherent in speaking with women.

I'm sure you won't mind, but I made some edits for you.

meta-sick burn.

Quote from: holιst on December 05, 2012, 06:56:49 AM
I have a new idea for a comic.  I don't think you guys are smart enough to understand it but what the hell.  Maybe this one will get through to you.

In the first panel a man is checking his watch.  It's time for him to leave for work.

In the second panel the man gets his coffee and heads towards the front door.

In the third panel his wife tells him to have a great day.

In the fourth panel he says "you too" and leaves.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!  I almost couldn't type that.  I was laughing so hard!

Quote from: holist~ on December 05, 2012, 06:22:26 AM

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:17:33 AM
Lordy.

An alterego.

"holist" - that's my name. So be careful.

Alty: you were whinging, definitely. Still are, in fact. Get a grip.

Quote from: holist on December 02, 2012, 08:29:57 PM

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 02, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
So you want to socialize with this community but you don't want to have to observe the norms and customs of this community?

This is not a homogeneous community, far from it. It would be closer to the truth to say that I want to socialize with people in this community but I don't want to observe some norms and customs of some members of this community.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 02, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
Let me know how that works out for you. As for your verbal pugilism, it's third-rate and won't get better here since, y'know, nobody wants to be your sparring partner.

The empirical evidence, my friend, seems to indicate otherwise. I will let you know. Though you should know already, as this is much the same as what you do, only for a different set of norms and customs.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on December 05, 2012, 08:59:17 AM
Because you're clearly beyond hope and/or you lack any semblance of social graces. Get back to me when you realize what a complete twat you've actually been here.

Quote from: Alty on December 05, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
What have I done?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:31:19 PM

Quote from: Alty on December 05, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
What have I done?

???

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I have a confession you guys.

Think about this for a second.

Hungarian.
Polar Bear.
Ukulele.
A history of newagey, mush-brained gobbledygook.

I trolled PD so hard I trolled myself.

I am holist.

Also, I may be poptart. It difficult to say.

I'm 85% sure I'm Daruko.

Quote from: Alty on December 05, 2012, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:31:19 PM

Quote from: Alty on December 05, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
What have I done?

???

Well, yesterday I posted this:

Quote from: Alty on December 04, 2012, 06:59:07 PM
I have a confession you guys.

Think about this for a second.

Hungarian.
Polar Bear.
Ukulele.
A history of newagey, mush-brained gobbledygook.

I trolled PD so hard I trolled myself.

I am holist.

Also, I may be poptart. It difficult to say.

I'm 85% sure I'm Daruko.

And today...things have happened on PD...am I coming unhinged or am I holist? Are you holist?

HOLISTHOLISTHOLIST.

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Not in the Disney version.  He's rescued by a genie and a loveable scamp.

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Not in the Disney version.  He's rescued by a genie and a loveable scamp.

Godammit!! You should see what they did with Naked Lunch.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:52:30 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Not in the Disney version.  He's rescued by a genie and a loveable scamp.

Godammit!! You should see what they did with Naked Lunch.

What part?  The animated, talking noose, or the cuddly cockroach?

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:52:30 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Not in the Disney version.  He's rescued by a genie and a loveable scamp.

Godammit!! You should see what they did with Naked Lunch.

What part?  The animated, talking noose, or the cuddly cockroach?

The animated talking noose I could cope with. It was the McDonald's 'Happy Meal' tie ins that I thought crossed the line. Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:11:19 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Wait, really?

That's kinda weird...

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:13:16 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:11:19 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Wait, really?

That's kinda weird...

For true.  They're all fucked up in the head.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 05, 2012, 06:01:24 PM
I want to be holist.

Just for about a week until I get approved for nut checks, 707 housing and medicaid.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:15:42 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:13:16 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:11:19 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Wait, really?

That's kinda weird...

For true.  They're all fucked up in the head.

I figured that Canadians were strange in ways I hadn't imagined but milk in plastic bags is something that I couldn't imagine.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:15:42 PM
I figured that Canadians were strange in ways I hadn't imagined but milk in plastic bags is something that I couldn't imagine.

Quote from: holist on December 05, 2012, 06:45:48 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:15:42 PM
I figured that Canadians were strange in ways I hadn't imagined but milk in plastic bags is something that I couldn't imagine.

hELP iS aLWAYS aT hAND fOR tHE iMAGINATIVELY cHALLENGED

Milk comes in a plastic bag in Hungary, too.

(http://blog.holist.hu/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/TEJ.jpg)

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:20:36 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:15:42 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:13:16 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:11:19 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Wait, really?

That's kinda weird...

For true.  They're all fucked up in the head.

I figured that Canadians were strange in ways I hadn't imagined but milk in plastic bags is something that I couldn't imagine.

They even have special pitchers for holding the bags.

Anyone else would use a jug...But they haven't invented screw-on caps there, or they have some sort of philosophical objection to them.  Therefore they have a bag in a pitcher, with one of the top corners cut off so you can pour it.  And so germs can get in.  Also, you can't see the use-by date because once the bag is cut, it has to stay in the pitcher. 

This is why Canadians are always sick and covered in buboes.  It's not genetic, it's poisoning from spoiled/infected milk.

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:49:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:20:36 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:15:42 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:13:16 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:11:19 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Wait, really?

That's kinda weird...

For true.  They're all fucked up in the head.

I figured that Canadians were strange in ways I hadn't imagined but milk in plastic bags is something that I couldn't imagine.

They even have special pitchers for holding the bags.

Anyone else would use a jug...But they haven't invented screw-on caps there, or they have some sort of philosophical objection to them.  Therefore they have a bag in a pitcher, with one of the top corners cut off so you can pour it.  And so germs can get in.  Also, you can't see the use-by date because once the bag is cut, it has to stay in the pitcher. 

This is why Canadians are always sick and covered in buboes.  It's not genetic, it's poisoning from spoiled/infected milk.

That's wacky. Was there any particular rationale towards this backwards custom? Screw tops would at least make sense. Or put the bag in a box like they do with Franzia.

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 05:49:14 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:52:30 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Not in the Disney version.  He's rescued by a genie and a loveable scamp.

Godammit!! You should see what they did with Naked Lunch.

What part?  The animated, talking noose, or the cuddly cockroach?

The animated talking noose I could cope with. It was the McDonald's 'Happy Meal' tie ins that I thought crossed the line. Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

in Soviet Hungary milk serves you in cardboardcartoons.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:50:32 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:49:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:20:36 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:15:42 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:13:16 PM

Quote from: ho|ist on December 05, 2012, 06:11:19 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 05:52:56 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM
Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

Tell that to the fucking Canadians.  They buy it in bags.

Wait, really?

That's kinda weird...

For true.  They're all fucked up in the head.

I figured that Canadians were strange in ways I hadn't imagined but milk in plastic bags is something that I couldn't imagine.

They even have special pitchers for holding the bags.

Anyone else would use a jug...But they haven't invented screw-on caps there, or they have some sort of philosophical objection to them.  Therefore they have a bag in a pitcher, with one of the top corners cut off so you can pour it.  And so germs can get in.  Also, you can't see the use-by date because once the bag is cut, it has to stay in the pitcher. 

This is why Canadians are always sick and covered in buboes.  It's not genetic, it's poisoning from spoiled/infected milk.

That's wacky. Was there any particular rationale towards this backwards custom? Screw tops would at least make sense. Or put the bag in a box like they do with Franzia.

What's Franzia?

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 06:53:26 PM

Quote from: H0list on December 05, 2012, 05:49:14 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:57:38 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:52:30 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:49:34 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:42:06 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:41:18 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Oh I get it. Everyone pretends to be Holist and then there's a mass crucifixion?

I think it's more like "bury the attention whore alive".

I see. Nevertheless, 'Kirk Douglas' still dies at the end of the movie.  :lol:

Not in the Disney version.  He's rescued by a genie and a loveable scamp.

Godammit!! You should see what they did with Naked Lunch.

What part?  The animated, talking noose, or the cuddly cockroach?

The animated talking noose I could cope with. It was the McDonald's 'Happy Meal' tie ins that I thought crossed the line. Milk should be served out of a basic cardboard carton.

in Soviet Hungary milk serves you in cardboardcartoons.

The infrastructure of implied humor - A SSOOKN product.


Oh god, I hate to explain a joke or series of jokes, but here goes.

I log onto PD.com this morning to see a proliferation of Holist clones. This put me in mind of the final act of Stanley Kubrick's 1960 film, 'Spartacus' starring Kirk Douglas. In said movie, the loyal followers of our eponymous hero; in an act of noble self-sacrifice, attempt to protect his identity by yelling 'I am Spartacus!' in hope that he might escape capture/torture/execution by the Romans.

Roger, being well versed in many aspects of North American popular culture, understood my allusion by counters my point. He suggests that instead of sacrifice, the thrust of the Holist clones is not to protect your identity but to drown it out. In return, I understand what he's suggesting but remind him that, at the end of the day, the death of Kirk Douglas' character is still the climax of the movie.

Now, not only is Roger well versed in popular culture, he has a particularly dark and satirical way of skewering this selfsame culture. While I was referencing an example of mass crucifixion, he linked this historical and Hollywood event to the company founded by Walt Disney because of their modern reputation for sanitizing what is, otherwise, serious subject matter. They are well known for the application of style over gravitas. This is frequently an irritant to intellectuals with left-leaning inclinations because shallow portrayals of complex situations and people [eg: Pocahontas] is something they find culturally insensitive.

Because Roger yoked my Spartacus reference to Disney, I decided to 'play along' with his mention of 'the noose' and 'bugs' as they both feature heavily in the novel 'Naked Lunch' by William S Burroughs. As I am quite familiar with this work in particular and the author in general, I pretended that I witnessed a Disney-fied version of Burrough's hallucinatory & hellish depiction of drug addiction, control and sexual sadism which, I should mention, is Burrough's satirical comment on the practice of capital punishment.

In advancing this exchange of cultural memes, I offer that what is really disturbing about the Disney corporation, is the way in which they mass market their movies through the use of tie-in products that are targeted specifically at children and their predeliction for fat, salt & sugar laden nutrition. (aka junk food).

PDers familiar with 'Naked Lunch' (my linkage to happy meals being an ironic and unintentional co-incidence) may remember that one character possessed a mechanical dildo that discharged warm milk as a semen substitute during the act of coition. Obviously, serving milk to children out of a mass produced toy dildo based on Naked Lunch is entirely inappropriate which is why (here comes the punchline) that I believe that milk is more safely stored and served in the now ubiquitous Tetrapak cardboard carton. The more media savvy among us may find further irony in that, the fate of the heirs of the Tetrapak fortune ended up in drug addiction and a death that is oddly reminiscent of Burroughs ouevre.

At which point, you include the currently popular 'In Soviet X, Y happens to you' meme. Unfortunately, it landed as a not especially funny non sequiter because it interrupted somewhat abruptly, the exchange between myself and Roger. I like to think of it as a sort of rally in a game of memetic tennis.

That I can do this with him in only a few short sentences is because we are (a) aware of the cultural terrain in which we were playing and (b) we have both been on this forum for some time and are thus, acquainted with each others personality and writing style.   

Not wishing for this now re-purposed thread to lose momentum, I believe that Roger's strategy was to pivot out of the Disney/Burroughs confabulation and, instead move towards a comedic strategy known as 'a cheap shot'. In this case, the intended targets are Canadians. Canada's global reputation for being a largely inoffensive nation has resulted in them becoming something of a blank canvas for humorous slights. The entertainment value of this is, for me, greatly enhanced owing to the fact that Roger and myself were both born in that country thus, we can share jokes based on a set of common national assumptions. No doubt, there's lots of Hungarian jokes that we would be ill-equipped to appreciate.

Hopefully, this will give you an insight into the Byzantine levels of subtext that exist in a typical PD.com discussion.

Mangrove.

PS English is my first and only language. Don't judge me too harshly, I never finished college.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:56:37 PM


The real humor here is that you are talking to Coyote.   :lulz:

Quote from: Mangrove on December 05, 2012, 06:58:25 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 05, 2012, 06:56:37 PM


The real humor here is that you are talking to Coyote.   :lulz:

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

HOW MANY INTERNETS DID I WIN?????